Starting positions

[Seether]

I had that same error for line 7303 as well, but after I double-checked the 3 files again and re-pasted them into the game to overwrite I didn't, so I thought it was taken care of when I uploaded 1.2. I will make sure to put the past_leader tags in my files.

I can do a few more family trees (and faction generals), however it will be fairly difficult to do every faction with the current factions in game. Were you thinking of using my proposal for historic factions, as that would be far easier to make trees and correct generals.

[Gigantus]

I think adjusting the family tree toward realities should be done. It will obviously mess up the positioning of garrisons and armies, so care has to be taken, that the removed named characters get replaced by generals. This is relatively simple as only minor changes are needed, see example:

Original named character

character    J-0601-GongSunZan, named character, male, age 42, x 131, y 160, portrait A006 ; , strat_model ZhongNianGaoJi_gene_GS, battle_model ZhongNianGaoJi_gene_GS
; traits JbAAAA0100 1 , shouming8000 1 , Lz-0601-0 1 , Jn1001 1 , Jn2000 2 , Jn3000 7 , Jn4000 8 , Jn5000 7 , JnA1000 3 , JnA2000 3 , JnA3000 3 , JnA4000 1 , JnA5000 3 , JnA6000 2 , JnA7000 2 , JnA8000 9 , JnA9000 4 , Jnxg4000 3 , Ch1000 2 , GongSunZan1100 1 , B2090JnZC-A 2 , C3080JnQJ-A 1 , C3190JnCQ-A 1 , Jn-islam 4
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
; unit        JiangJun_HeBei Aa_0601-GongSunZan        exp 4 armour 1 weapon_lvl 1
; unit        Baimasheshou Gongsun        exp 5 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
; unit        Baimasheshou Gongsun        exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

Replacement general

character    [random name from faction's names], general, male, age 42, x 131, y 160
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
; unit        JiangJun_HeBei Aa_0601-GongSunZan        exp 4 armour 1 weapon_lvl 1
; unit        Baimasheshou Gongsun        exp 5 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
; unit        Baimasheshou Gongsun        exp 3 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

Basically the traits have to go as some of them are directly related to the character. And the custom entries for portrait, battle model etc.
Should they not be needed later they can easily be removed or placed somewhere else (I am a wizard with Geomod )

Can you do the above for the Cao faction and submit a new set of files? It will be difficult to reconstruct all the positioning later on.

One tip to stay on top of your submitted files: add the date to the name (in front) and a letter if you have several of them in a day. 20120820b[descriptive name].zip would be the third file today (Year\Month\Date\letter). This will sort the files automatically in the right sequence.

[Seether]

Ok, I changed the descr_strat entries for the Cao clan so they have about 6 captains (as replacements for removed named characters) on the stratmap. As a note, I sorted the Cao clan's character entries in descr_strat by: family members > named characters > generals > "GS" named characters. I also have included an updated descr_names and names.txt.

EDIT: Had to reupload. This version should be fine.

[Seether]

Also 3 more questions:

1) How does Spain (Unaligned Forces) work within the context of the game? Are just a "rebel faction" with named characters?

2) Is there any way to have descr_names work so that family members/named characters take names from one pool while captain/agents take names from another pool?

3) What are the entries at the top of names.txt (end in "GS") used for? Are they a part of scripts? As in if a faction has the character with the "GS" entry (which is invisible on the stratmap), if the non-"GS" character is killed or their faction destroyed, then the "GS" character will spawn in the faction it is assigned?

For example, Liu Clan has "HuangZhong_GS" in their files while "HuangZhong" is a part of Spain (I think Spain, doesn't matter really). If Spain's "HuangZhong" is killed or Spain is destroyed, will Liu Clan get the "HuangZhong_GS" to spawn and be a part of their faction?

[Gigantus]

1. My impression is the same as yours - a second 'rebel' faction I would think. If I play with the faction relations via script (eternal angry Swiss) then I think it will be possible to keep them neutral (unaligned) to all other factions.
2. Not possible.
3. There is no script as such and the GS names only appear in the france and england rooster. I have no idea to what purpose these names were created. I don't know about the historical relevance of these names - maybe one set (original or GS) might have to be removed from descr_names.

No problem with the latest files. Family tree looks good. Haven't looked into the 'replacement' generals or into the log yet.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Seether]

1. My impression is the same as yours - a second 'rebel' faction I would think. If I play with the faction relations via script (eternal angry Swiss) then I think it will be possible to keep them neutral (unaligned) to all other factions.

Ah, ok

I noticed that quite a few of them have "GS" entries, which goes into #3 below.

2. Not possible.

Damn it. I was hoping that someone might have cracked that since I last modded. I REALLY dislike how the names lists are for general/agents, so I might have to tackle that later on since family trees and family members are being altered so much.

3. There is no script as such and the GS names only appear in the france and england rooster. I have no idea to what purpose these names were created. I don't know about the historical relevance of these names - maybe one set (original or GS) might have to be removed from descr_names.

All of the "GS" characters are those that served in a different faction in 194, but then became famous serving elsewhere; basically most of the "GS" people arevery famous from this period.

Huang Zhong and Wei Yan are famous for serving Liu Bei, but not until much later in the era. Originally they served other warlords (Liu Biao/Han Xuan), but joined Liu Bei after the other two fell. Zhao Yun served Gongsun Zan until he fell, then similarly joined Liu Bei. All three of them (Huang Zhong, Wei Yan, and Zhao Yun) all have "GS" entries for the Liu Clan, while they have regular entries elsewhere.

Niu Jin, similarly, is currently on the Spain roster but has a "GS" entry for the Cao Clan, as he was famous for serving Cao Cao. Zhang Liao, as well, has a "GS" entry for Cao Clan, but a regular entry for Lu Bu. And Zhang He also has a "GS" entry for Cao Clan, but a regular entry for Yuan Shao (Yuan Clan?).

All of the "GS" are invisible on the stratmap, plus I don't think it is a coincidence that all of the "GS" entries are only listed in factions that enlisted those specific character's services later in the era. If I had to bet money, I would say that what I described in my previous post is what the "GS" characters are for or at least intended for.

No problem with the latest files. Family tree looks good. Haven't looked into the 'replacement' generals or into the log yet.

Awesome. Just let me know what you'd like done next. And I'm guessing that the Cao Clan is going to be the "guinea pig" to make sure everything works as intended before moving forward?

[Gigantus]

There is a sneaky way of using names only for one character:

The name gets entered in descr_names for an absent faction (like the mongols, but they never spawn)
A character gets spawned for that mongol faction
It then gets immediately transferred to the correct faction via 'give_everything_to _faction'

I guess something like this can be used to transfer characters from 'spain' to 'england' - killing the 'spain' character is obviously necessary, a direct transfer is not possible.

Let me have a look later in the day about the other entries you did. Once there are no apparent pitfalls or corrections left then I think you can go right ahead to do the rest.

[Seether]

Just an FYI, but I have Kong Rong (Bei Hai) and Yuan Shao (Yuan Clan) family trees done.

I also have 6 more family trees, from the factions I suggested a page back, completed as well. But implementing those are dependent upon if/when the factions get overhauled

[Gigantus]

I do love an eager mind. If I could get the unit models finished at the same speed I could devote more time to the new stuff.
Adding new factions\cloning existing ones is a pain in the butt. Keep the new stuff handy somewhere and then we will add it once the beta version is out.

If you are running out of current stuff, then I can always direct you to digging up faction symbols that can be used for the army banners - my first try was 'unsatisfactory' to put it mildly.

[Seether]

Yep, I'm keeping the "new faction" family trees on the backburner and storing them until needed. For the time being I'll finish the family trees for the current factions. In my copy I have already added the Yuan Shao and Kong Rong trees and they work fine. Just let me know if you want me to upload the finished trees for the current factions.

As far as faction symbols for banners, I can see where that would be difficult. I will do some searching and see what I come up with, although I'm not overly confident of anything much. From what I understand they would simply be the clan/surname on a colored field (much as they are currently), but not sure if infantry/cavalry/bowmen would have different signifiers on their banners.

EDIT: Looks like I was wrong about the "GS" characters, they are not invisible on the stratmap. I'm going to replace all "GS" entries with captains in descr_strat.

[Seether]

Here is an updated names.txt, descr_names, and descr_strat for updated family trees.

The factions done are:
Cao Cao (Cao Clan - england)
Gongsun Zan (You Zhou - moors)
Yuan Shao (Yuan Clan - russia)
Kong Rong (Bei Hai - milan)
Sun Ce (Sun Clan - hre)
Ma Teng (Xiliang - egypt)

[Seether]

Here is an updated names.txt, descr_names, and descr_strat for updated family trees.

The factions done are:
Cao Cao (Cao Clan - england)
Gongsun Zan (You Zhou - moors)
Yuan Shao (Yuan Clan - russia)
Kong Rong (Bei Hai - milan)
Sun Ce (Sun Clan - hre)
Ma Teng (Xiliang - egypt)
Liu Zhang (Yi Zhou - normans)
Liu Biao (Jingzhou - portugal)


As a note, in this update I also altered the generals of Liu Zhang, Liu Bei, and Tao Qian. A few of Liu Bei's generals (Li Yan, Meng Da, Xu Jing) should have been with Liu Zhang. A few of Tao Qian's generals (Cao Bao, Chen Gui, Chen Deng) should be serving Liu Bei... in fact, since Tao Qian won't have many officers and is DEAD in 194 and is being removed anyways, perhaps you should:

1) Take Tao Qian/Xu Zhou off of the stratmap completely and make them unplayable,
2) Have Liu Bei/Liu Clan occupy all of Tao Qian's former settlements
3) Have all Liu Bei/Liu Clan characters moved (x,y coordinates) into and around the new settlements
4) Remove the settlement of Yong An from Liu Bei/Liu Clan (so now the faction would only occupy Tao Qian's former territories)

[Majordea]

We all look forward to your completion..Many, many fans I assure you will be watching close. Please just make sure the game runs solid, without bugs, above all, and we will all be ecstatic at the potential for the future.
Long Live Total War!!!!!!!!

[Seether]

-obsolete post-

[Cronos Impera]

You could solve the problems with Li Jue and others by using the Teutonic campaign family trees. That way you can have your faction heir selected by valor and influence.

[Minn]

I think we have to keep starting position of Liubei clan as same as original mod. If Liubei and Caocao are together at central of China then game playwill not be great.

[Seether]

Why do you say the gameplay won't be great?

[fd7s]

Will Cao Ang be the faction heir for wei since he was when he was alive?

[Seether]

Cao Ang was never Cao Cao's heir, as Cao Cao never actually named an heir until 10 years after Cao Ang died (in 217, when Cao Cao became King of Wei). Although typically the eldest son became heir, it was not always the case; Liu Biao and Yuan Shao are two other examples.

But, yes, he is alive but won't be the heir. However that will change for the beta release because, if he had lived, he more than likely would have been named heir.

[Cincinatus]

You can always make some of the 700 officers, diplomats, spies, assassins, or ancillaries. Xu Shu could be one example. He was an adviser to Liu Bei before Zhuge Liang. So he could be a ancillary to a leader. Lu Su might be an example of a diplomat for the Wu faction.

If you are having issues resolving different starting positions for leaders such as Liu Bei then one solution is to have more than one start date as some mods such as the Perilous creatures submod, or Conquest did. Other games that focus on this time have had more than one start date.