Ideas/Suggestions

[limith]

That cancelling tribute exploit needs some serious plugging (or nasty penalties), I just can't think right now how to test for it...

There are many ways to solve it: -Prevent AI from going bankrupt (make it build less troops) -Prevent using 2 diplomats on a faction in one turn (so at least 1 turn of tribute goes through, to get the settlements requires very high tribute, aka all of my treasury x 15 turns) -Decrease value of money relative to settlements in trade offers -Increase reputation penalty on tribute breakage -Make 'diminishing return' value of tributes occur earlier (if you choose money x 20 turns, the 'value' perceived by the AI is LESS than if you choose money x 15 turns for some odd reason while asking for settlements) Incidentally, the AI faction DoW'd me a few turns after I cancelled even though relations were 'Very Good', so I think the engine has something in it. That aside, the tribute exploit has allowed me to return to where my campaign used to be before being forced to restart without requiring I play 160 turns.

[Voice of Treason]

Nothing untoward. Just for the record.
Nothing profound whatsoever came of the post #76 experiment.

Nanman still struggled to upgrade (came so close at 16100) by which time I'd reached the better Cheng du districts anyway.(so, that's probably the answer..???)
(maybe upgrade the farm base of Yun nan/ Jian ning by 1 and not worry, nothing to lose sleep over)
So I'm just reverting back to to the patch 1 settlement .xml values again next time.

since edited a line out in light of new testing

No one this time financially peaked, spiked through vassalage, sat in the corner growing untouched etc. All kept meandering under control from the king's purse script

In my last campaign Sun and Cao collapsed, Liu held the center, rebels held the map rim, no one dare move and the map stagnated as factions just kept peaking afraid to challenge each other and I had neither the money or men to get it moving along.
This time Liu snuffed early, and the map had plenty of momentum, Sun has even been encroaching from the lowest border crossing.

So false alarm, my old campaign might have been just an anomaly

As they say..."You win some, you lose some"...but at least you'll know

[sickNsane]

Is the whole Ransom/Release/Execute thing hard coded? would be cool to have the option of bribing your prisoners to join you Oo

[Seether]

As of right now it appears that way...

[Kiesennin]

Campaign is full of LiuBei mission. ZhaoYun pledge his loyalty, ZhugeLiang, PangTong... Cao Clan has few missions: capture Luoyang for XuHuang joint, Changan for Simayi, Chengcang for Haozhao, end. Three Kingdoms first 20 year is Cao Clan's action: slain LuBu with zhangliao joint, cast LiuBei out of Jizhou, lose Zhangxiu because JiaXu'scheme but accept his joint and have JiaXu after that and take Wen castle. Then they won battle with Yuanshao and have Zhanghe, Gaolan's serve. In 20 year, Cao Cao take over ZhongYuan with many many battle. Only 2 missons I can do are emperor and slain Yuanshu. What he done is Rise of One Kingdom. What LiuBei done is rise Romance of Three Kingdoms. If CaoCao did not lose in ChiBi, the war would end very soon. All LiuBei did is run and war come with him everywhere he came by his cause. And Sun Quan of Sunclan, he is nothing but protect his land what his brother fought for. With me this mod will more interesting if it has more cao clan's mission

[Seether]

It has already been discussed several times in the forum, but we are planning on doing extensive missions for Cao Clan, Sun Clan, and Yuan Clan. In fact, Gigantus and I are working on the Cao Clan missions right now; they should be in the next Patch.

Liu Bei's missions were done first because a lot of people didn't like that his faction didn't start in the west. The missions were meant as a means to give players the ability to take Liu Bei from his historic starting position all the way to Shu, through a series of interesting missions.

On a side note, creating these mission systems is no small feat. They take a lot of time and effort in planning, coding, and scripting to get them to function. Also, while I respect your feelings toward Cao Cao, you shouldn't trivialize the accomplishments of Liu Bei, Sun Ce, or Sun Quan. It was through them and their actions, after all, that Cao Cao never did unite China and the country remained separated into three separate states.

[Kiesennin]

Great! I can't wait to play next pacth.I don't trivialize Liu Bei, like Cao Cao told LiuBei: 2 true hero in this chaos is him and LiuBei. I just don't like him. In all Three Kingdoms game, I do every thing to cast him out Jizhou and lure, guide him to west. But I never play Liu Bei and lead him to west

[Seether]

That is actually a trait for Liu Bei in the game:

{LiuBei1102}FEAT: Just You and Me
{LiuBei1102_desc}While Liu Bei served in the Han Celestial Court with Cao Cao, he pretended to be a man with no great ambitions. But one day Cao Cao invited Liu Bei for tea and plums, and inquired him about what he think of the various warlords of the time and who would make a true hero. Cao Cao refuted every single “hero” Liu Bei brought up, and instead said: “Just you and me. We are the only heroes under the Heavens!”

[SamueleD]

Would you consider adding flag-bearers to the units (including cav) in future releases? Obviously it's not a priority, but, if you get the chance to do it, they would add a nice touch to the battles and look awesome.

[Seether]

I think that is definitely a possibility.

[cheesegrader]

:| possible adding of drum standard units? i alway tho that would be cool

[Voice of Treason]

In my last post, I stated a knockback script wasn't necessary (which I later redacted)
What I should have said was a knockback script wasn't ideal with the values i had 80000 threshold -40000 knockback.

When I studied the "faction destroyed" bodycount, at turns per year, for my last Nanman campaign it went...
Youzhou 23,Yauzhou 47, Huinan 53, Laodong 88 Liu clan 91, Yangzhou 99, Nanyang 131...they dropped like flies because there wasn't enough money and that was explaining the momentum.

I then restarted with a Nanyang campaign (in the map middle) to a, be in the action, b, monitor Sun, Cao, Yuan and Liu, WITHOUT any knockback script.
Within a short space Cao was pushing 320000, most other factions rised exponentially as well and I was overwhelmed.

I realised, ideally, I wanted a knockback script that didn't detract from the mod essence of Wu/Shu/Wei power struggle YET at the same time, allowed a reasonable player response. A chance to progress and survive using skill and wits.

At first I tried a knockback script with a threshold of 250000 -80000 knockback. But I found it still to be too overwhelming too early. Factions ran away too soon

After numerous restarts, some to test scripts, (some simply because I was being beat fairly and i wanted to try a different approach) I've gone with

200000 threshold -80000. (touch wood)

I have had a superb beta. Very tough!!! (had to restart from earlier saves many times, but I have done everything "Art of (Total) war"
Bribed, murdered, siezed assets, sacked, pillaged, formed buffer states, alienated and allied....relentlessly

So far (50 turns but i have had to replay various parts to survive) no factions destroyed, Plenty of action, yet, just...still playable.

script example, removed ai line from last time

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType aztecs
and Treasury >= 200000
and I_TurnNumber >= 1
add_money aztecs -80000
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType timurids
and Treasury >= 200000
and I_TurnNumber >= 1
add_money timurids -80000
end_monitor done for every faction etc etc

if anything remotely worthwhile comes of this i'll update ..but from the pic, it's going very well (but exhausting, fighting tooth and nail)
(just throwing this out there)

[limith]

In my last post, I stated a knockback script wasn't necessary (which I later redacted) What I should have said was a knockback script wasn't ideal with the values i had 80000 threshold -40000 knockback. When I studied the "faction destroyed" bodycount, at turns per year, for my last Nanman campaign it went... Youzhou 23,Yauzhou 47, Huinan 53, Laodong 88 Liu clan 91, Yangzhou 99, Nanyang 131...they dropped like flies because there wasn't enough money and that was explaining the momentum. I then restarted with a Nanyang campaign (in the map middle) to a, be in the action, b, monitor Sun, Cao, Yuan and Liu, WITHOUT any knockback script. Within a short space Cao was pushing 320000, most other factions rised exponentially as well and I was overwhelmed. I realised, ideally, I wanted a knockback script that didn't detract from the mod essence of Wu/Shu/Wei power struggle YET at the same time, allowed a reasonable player response. A chance to progress and survive using skill and wits. At first I tried a knockback script with a threshold of 250000 -80000 knockback. But I found it still to be too overwhelming too early. Factions ran away too soon After numerous restarts, some to test scripts, (some simply because I was being beat fairly and i wanted to try a different approach) I've gone with 200000 threshold -80000. (touch wood) I have had a superb beta. Very tough!!! (had to restart from earlier saves many times, but I have done everything "Art of (Total) war" Bribed, murdered, siezed assets, sacked, pillaged, formed buffer states, alienated and allied....relentlessly So far (50 turns but i have had to replay various parts to survive) no factions destroyed, Plenty of action, yet, just...still playable. script example, removed ai line from last time monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType aztecs and Treasury >= 200000 and I_TurnNumber >= 1 add_money aztecs -80000 end_monitor monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType timurids and Treasury >= 200000 and I_TurnNumber >= 1 add_money timurids -80000 end_monitor done for every faction etc etc if anything remotely worthwhile comes of this i'll update ..but from the pic, it's going very well (but exhausting, fighting tooth and nail) (just throwing this out there)

Your left most knockback script image and the result you provided is erroneous since it is based on too small of a sample. If you had run the game for around 80 turns you'd see that most factions go broke at the 40 turn mark, and Cao Cao goes broke at the 80 turn mark. This trend has been consistent in all of my many campaign games. The long term image of your knockback script doesn't change the overall trend from observations of my games either. Based on the last image, it looks very much like the trend I see in my games with no knockback script. There's little effect long term, except from hiding an underlying AI spending problem and reducing the peak of the AI treasury pattern. I think a more aggressive unit limit, potentially a script to disband units if the AI is broke, or disable building for the AI if it is losing money, would be more effective in preventing the AI from overbuilding. All that you end up doing is reducing the treasury buffer the AI can build up. Another option would be to "Save" money for the AI somehow (maybe more aggressive treasury script?) since in the early game the AI can only spend on buildings. My analysis for the problem is that: most factions start with too many units and can't train units as a result. Even if they could train, there's not many units you can train at start in undeveloped settlements. Furthermore, early level buildings are too cheap, so the AI stockpiles units. By the time the AI can start building units (after some fighting, ~turn 20) is also the time when buildings start becoming expensive. This explains the drop in treasury then. Because the AI built a money buffer, it overbuilds military. Whether or not you have a knockback script, this treasury buffer from turn 1-20 will still be built, and the AI will still overbuild military from 20-40. By the time the AI gets broke, buildings for cities should be much more expensive than it can afford, which results in stagnation in growth. The AI is also much worse than the player at handling city growth, so it likely has no more buildings to unlock since it probably isn't using Low taxes + great governors. AI prefers military buildings over civilian, so it suffers more from squalor. This results in continued stagnation and persistent bankruptcy.

[Nago]

hey guys,

I don't know if someone asked and if it's the right post but reducing the size of watchtowers could be cool, they are huge as they are. I'm gonna (try to) mod this by myself but that could be a nice little change?

keep rocking guys, this mod is in my vault forever already!

[Gigantus]

Flag bearers have been implemented now for the coming patch - require some tweaking which should be done by the date of the patch release.
Reducing the size of the watch towers can be done, 80% of the present size should be fine - anything smaller reduces them to insignificance.

[sickNsane]

Dont see the point in shrinking them personally, i always thought the size of them in vanilla made them harder to locate and stupid, one of the better parts of this for me was that they were bigger lol

[sindragoon]

Flag bearers have been implemented now for the coming patch - require some tweaking which should be done by the date of the patch release.
Reducing the size of the watch towers can be done, 80% of the present size should be fine - anything smaller reduces them to insignificance.

Fantastic mod. I have a suggestion. I think you should give the generic generals of each faction a unique appearance. That would add to the immersion , thanks

[Gigantus]

The generic general (and captain) can only have one battle model, the strat model has already several versions.

Generals that are preplaced or spawned are to a large percentage assigned individual battle models.

[sindragoon]

The generic general (and captain) can only have one battle model, the strat model has already several versions.

Generals that are preplaced or spawned are to a large percentage assigned individual battle models.

I mean making generic generals of a faction look different than other factions. For example: all generic generals of Liaodong have a generic appearance that is different than all generic generals of Youzhou as opposed to the black armor wearing generic generals that most factions have. I am suggesting this because I saw generic generals of Nanman ( generals that wear chef hat) have different appearance than the rest of other factions' generic generals (Black armor wearing general). Can this be done or is it not possible?

[Gigantus]

That is no problem at all although it won't make much sense other then increasing the display of faction colors as most of the factions do have the same military during that time period. Liaodong and Nanman are the exception. I am sure Seether can give you more background on this.