Please do Aksum Empire as one of the 2 remaining factions!

[Mugen234]

Abyssinian Aksumite Empire

I personally will look up the information on them and gather as much as I can to make it a playable faction.

1) Aksum or Axsum Empire was one of the biggest empires next to Rome during their Era.

2) It would give Egypt as a player more early game reason to fight settlements below Egypt as an AI faction is both above you and below you.

3) This would be the first EB II fully fleshed out African/Jewish tribe turned into an empire from BC to AD, this will bring more reality to Northern Africa and create that mixture of Arabs, Ethiopians, Jewish, and Greeks.

4) Who doesn't want to see lion skin covered swordsmen and spearmen fighting Romans or Egyptians.

5) Look at the coins, it screams EB II



6) They also wouldn't need much work as a few Ethiopian and Jewish units are in game. completing some of the roster, their updates and reforms would also be basic i.e (lion skins, gold plates, colorful uniforms, etc) considering that it was too hot to wear armor.

Timeline & Reforms:
274 BC - Starts off as a Ethiopian tribe in Axum, mostly Ethiopian warriors, spearmen, archers, elephants, etc.
1st reform 200 BC - Allows mixture of Jewish and Ethiopian warriors, swordsmen.
2nd reform - same time as Marian or after



There's a lot of barbarian and greek factions in EB II already, this would give it a much in depth realism of what went on in the southern part of the map of EB II during the time frame it covers. I just like the idea of being an actual African tribe during that time period, give Egypt some actual immersion of what really happened.

[cih]

It would probably be easier to make another European faction, but this I'd like above all! Africa needs more activity, it'll be all the more fun playing as Egypt or Saba.

[Sylon]

Thank you very much for this faction proposal. There are some things that strike me as odd in your post, however. Could you please clarify them?



1) The height of the Kingdom of Aksum was after our time period. Aksum during our time period is in what is known as the 'Proto-Aksumite' period. Are you referencing a Proto-Aksumite state of some kind?

3) Do you have any evidence that the Kingdom of Aksum was Jewish? There were a few temples found in the region dating to before our time period, but I have never come across any assertion that the Kingdom of Aksum, at any point, had Judaism as its state religion. Has there been any new information on Judaism during the Proto-Aksumite period?

6) Ioudaioi Taxeis, with their blend of Middle-Eastern and Hellenistic equipment, would not be suitable as a unit from East Africa, surely?

What are the reforms you have concepted based on?



Also, regarding the images you've posted- Do you have any sources for them? The image of a ruler on a horse, surrounded by guardsmen, does not look very Aksumite to me. I have not come across any mentions of such leaf-shaped and curved short swords on the ruler's waist being found in Aksumite archeological sites. Although admittedly I lack access to up-to-date sources.

They do, however, look very similar to weapons used by the Bini people of the Kingdom of Benin in West Africa, over a thousand years after EB2's date. In fact, a lot of the equipment in the image you've posted matches depictions on Bini sculptures and plaques:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The depictions date to the 16th and 17th centuries AD. Please note the similar spearhead shapes, similar helmet on the mounted rider and the central figure on the plaques, the similar leaf-sword shape, and the similar pointed-teeth (?) necklaces.



I'm sorry if this sounds hostile or disparaging. If you could post some sources to back up your proposal, it would be great. Thank you very much.

[Abdülmecid I]

I'd love to see another African faction, much more preferable, imo, than an Illyrian or Thracian one, but Axum is not the right choice, as it doesn't belong to EB's timeframe. A better candidate would be the kingdom of Meroe, a truly unique faction:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mero%C3%AB

Unfortunately, the mod leaders clarified that she won't be present in the game, as her isolated position would make her attack exclusively Ptolemaic Egypt. I disagree with their reasoning, but it's up to them an I respect their decision.

[Willhelm123]

Axum didn't exist in 272BC, it didn't become a proper kingdom until the 2nd or 3rd century AD. Meroe, the Kingdom of Kushites, would be a far better choice. It was a kingdom at the height of its power, it styled itself after Ancient Egypt, and it has a diverse and interesting roster. I am currently working on Meroe for Ancient Empires, we have all the research and roster worked out.

Regarding the images you've posted- Do you have any sources for them? The image of a ruler on a horse, surrounded by guardsmen, does not look very Aksumite to me. I have not come across any mentions of such leaf-shaped and curved short swords on the ruler's waist being found in Aksumite archeological sites. Although admittedly I lack access to up-to-date sources.

They do, however, look very similar to weapons used by the Bini people of the Kingdom of Benin in West Africa, over a thousand years after EB2's date. The final image also includes a flintlock pistol.

[Sylon]

Good catch! I didn't notice the flintlock pistol on the last image.

[Mugen234]

Yeah the pictures were used for visual purposes, sorry.

Also Axum was there since 500 BC and this is why I said it should start off as a small tribe then reform into an Empire as time goes on as it did. Here is the timeline of Axum

http://africanhistory.about.com/od/e...Timeline-1.htm

I do like the Meroe's as well, whichever one would be a better and more realistic feel for Africa.

[Mugen234]

According to the timeline Axum was created 500 B.C then began expansion at 300 B.C, 200 B.C is when Semitic and Sabaean people began traveling there (2nd reform which can give you access to Semetic and Sabaean units)

[Willhelm123]

I've never heard of Aksum forming in 500BC. I believe it formed much later as a Kingdom not until at least 0 AD. After D'mt fell in the region there was never any true kingdom for centuries. The leader of the area was Meroe in Africa and Saba over the sea in Arabia.

[The excited one]

I'm sorry if this sounds hostile or disparaging. If you could post some sources to back up your proposal, it would be great. Thank you very much.

There is no need to be sorry just for basing facts whilst asking for facts. In fact its isolation and irrelevancy makes it a waste of resources and time for the devs of EB2 when they had better resources balancing this game at the moment.

[Mugen234]

There is no need to be sorry just for basing facts whilst asking for facts. In fact its isolation and irrelevancy makes it a waste of resources and time for the devs of EB2 when they had better resources balancing this game at the moment.

I just wanted a cool faction and more diversity to Africa so it's not just Europe that gets a cluster of factions..it's that simple, adding more realism to Egypt by giving them a faction who continuously attacks them is no different than Carthage and it's position but a little more dynamic. Take that race stuff out this forum please, we don't appreciate that..

[z3n]

Please remember the admins/mods of twc really don't like derogatory comments about other people and will take action against you, suspension, bans etc depending on how serious of an offense it was. Which is understandable because we're trying to discuss a topic, not a person/people.

Reading the Terms Of Service (TOS) is recommended.

[Roma_Victrix]

Axum didn't exist in 272BC, it didn't become a proper kingdom until the 2nd or 3rd century AD. Meroe, the Kingdom of Kushites, would be a far better choice. It was a kingdom at the height of its power, it styled itself after Ancient Egypt, and it has a diverse and interesting roster. I am currently working on Meroe for Ancient Empires, we have all the research and roster worked out.

Regarding the images you've posted- Do you have any sources for them? The image of a ruler on a horse, surrounded by guardsmen, does not look very Aksumite to me. I have not come across any mentions of such leaf-shaped and curved short swords on the ruler's waist being found in Aksumite archeological sites. Although admittedly I lack access to up-to-date sources.

They do, however, look very similar to weapons used by the Bini people of the Kingdom of Benin in West Africa, over a thousand years after EB2's date. The final image also includes a flintlock pistol.

^ Basically this. The Kingdom of Kush based at Meroe (in what is now Sudan) lasted from the 11th century BC into the 4th century AD and even gave the Romans occupying Egypt some trouble and harassment for a time (the Romans kicked back, of course). Long before that the Kushites managed to conquer all of Egypt, their pharoahs ruling as its Twenty-Fifth dynasty from the 8th to 7th centuries before being booted out by the Assyrians and supplanted by a puppet native dynasty (the last one before the Persian invasion). In any case, the Kushites were destroyed by the Kingdom of Axum/Aksum, who burnt their capital to the ground. By that point Christianity was being adopted in both the lands of Kush and Axum, the latter embracing the Christian faith under king Ezana in the mid 4th century. Just for fun, here's the (unfortunately damaged) pyramids at Meroe:



If anything, EB II should add Meroe to the game, not Axum, which, as Willhelm rightly points out, did not really exist yet in the 3rd century BC.

Then again I'd like to see EB II add Warring States China, coalesing under the rule of the Qin and then Han Dynasty. Who's with me on that idea! ...No? No one? [Roma_Victrix slowly backs away from that proposal.]

That would be cool, though, to see a Seleucid or Bactrian successor of Alexander the Great march well past Central Asia into the Yellow River region of China to start a ruckus.

[The excited one]

Please remember the admins/mods of twc really don't like derogatory comments about other people and will take action against you, suspension, bans etc depending on how serious of an offense it was. Which is understandable because we're trying to discuss a topic, not a person/people.

Reading the Terms Of Service (TOS) is recommended.

I rest my case

[Anubis88]

The obvious difference between Numidia and a below Egypt faction is how they affected the politics of our map imho. Numidia became a very powerfull kingdom under Jugurtha that had a control of vast parts of northern africa on our map; that never happened to this scale with African factions from more on the South. Also the pressure of Numidians on Carthage was real and constant because there wasn't much souther the numidian tribes could go due to the Sahara desert; the same isn't true to the same extent with under egyptians kingdoms as well. Alas that comes to the problem that a faction there would definetly have only 1 goal in mind, and that's to attack the Ptolemaic Empire while not have to worry about any of it's borders; something ahistorical and game braking to some extent. Not to mention there's also the issue of a completly different culture to add in a limited scenario that we have.

So maybe you can fight each point here with other factions, but imho no other faction has all of these issues.

[demagogos nicator]

I just wanted a cool faction and more diversity to Africa so it's not just Europe that gets a cluster of factions..it's that simple, adding more realism to Egypt by giving them a faction who continuously attacks them is no different than Carthage and it's position but a little more dynamic. Take that race stuff out this forum please, we don't appreciate that..

I think the kingdom of Magas of Cyrene may be also intreresting faction to justify this. Although rather shrot-living faction it does not have all the cons which adding Meroe have. Other african faction which may have some justification can be Garamantes and Maures.

[James the Red]

What I hope happens is that once EB2 has been out for a while, players in the future make sub-mods that allow you to swap factions to allow more customized starts.

I know that for EB there was or is a 'Norvo Ordos Mundi' mod, that when completed would have been essentially EB but starting at a later date and ending at a later date, so there would have been a Jewish faction, but no Carthage faction and no western Greek factions. So there would have been room for a Nubian faction. If EB2 ever gets something like that in the future, that would be really cool.

[Roma_Victrix]

What I hope happens is that once EB2 has been out for a while, players in the future make sub-mods that allow you to swap factions to allow more customized starts.

I know that for EB there was or is a 'Norvo Ordos Mundi' mod, that when completed would have been essentially EB but starting at a later date and ending at a later date, so there would have been a Jewish faction, but no Carthage faction and no western Greek factions. So there would have been room for a Nubian faction. If EB2 ever gets something like that in the future, that would be really cool.

To be honest, given the amount of submods for mods like TATW, I'm surprised something as momentous as EB II doesn't already have an extensive list of substantial submods. And when and if someone does make a full submod, please throw in the Chinese Han Dynasty, please. Plus Gojoseon Korea while we're at it, but not Japan, since it was still in its primitive early Yayoi period at this point. If not China, then the whole of India would be a nice addition, including all of the Maurya Empire and even Sri Lanka with its ancient Anuradhapura Kingdom.

[demagogos nicator]

To be honest, given the amount of submods for mods like TATW, I'm surprised something as momentous as EB II doesn't already have an extensive list of substantial submods.

In my opinion it is because the offcial development of TATW have been stopped so when the fans want to have some neve features or improvements in the game they have to do it themselves in the form of submod while the development of EB2 is till in progress. No one would add any substantial investment to the platform which may be in few months outdated (by releasing the new version of EB) and also when people want to have some feature in the game they can still hope that official team will add it in the next release so they do not have to do submod on their own. I think the serious submoding of EB2 will begin when the mod gets to the final stages of its development and it became clear which featrures the official team going to add to the final build and which not (e.g. people wont make submodds adding Meroe faction untill the faction allocation of the remeaining two faction slots is disclosed by the EB team and it is 100% that the Meroe is not going to be added by the official team).

[myarta]

I came basically to same exactly what demagogos nicator said, re: submodding. EB1 is finalized, and now it has an interesting submod collection in the form of Jirisys', but with releases every month or so, it would indeed be a nightmare to try to mod EB2 and keep it current. Plus when I point out bugs or things, they generally fix them right away, and any features I would want are already coming down the pipeline in the Autumn Release, so I have no reason to submod.