Hi I was reading a few commie things...and it doesnt seem so bad... but history has another way of putting it... Pretty much all the systems that implemented "Communism" is all hypocritical.... So what are we really against? True communsim(peace, justice, equality) or Hypocritical communism(Stalin for example) where it was more red fascism in my opinion.... Some things in communism such as no religion im against... But as a Christian i can see many similarities as too how God wants to us live as mankind... Discuss....
The whole idea that keeps us from supporting "true communism" is that it's not possible. Most of us here believe that it can never come about because "hypocritical communism" overtakes it and stamps it out before it can develop.
I would beg to suggest that even Communism at its idilic "pure" form is still an apalling evil. The idea is pure equality, which sounds nice, but it means that those of us who have ambitions or things we want to do in our life have to be held back and have to sacrifice our dreams and well being for others against our will (christianity, I believe, says we must do this willingly for it to matter). If we are all equal, how can there be any greatness in society? If we are all equal, what's to differentiate Shakespeare from sensless drabble? I would also say that Communism scews the idea of justice, because to us justice means equality before the law, but to communists, "Justice" means that equality is the purpose of the law, and laws exist to make us equal. Further, Communism is anything but peaceful. Communism is founded in the idea of class conflict, even in an ideal world, this cannot lead to anything but violence by definition.
Well the idea... i think its not Evil... I think making an equal society between human beings is a good thing... and everything we do contributes to that soceity... I dont see why its such a BAD thing... In the other hand it never was practiced..instead "Communism" was practiced but as something different from its idea... In other words red facism...
The "ideas" and stated dreams and goals of communism are completely unrealistic and, in fact, unattainable. From an economic standpoint communism/socialism is impossible and cannot possibly achieve it's stated goals. In effect, communism is little more than a dangerous utopianism and not a viable system for achieving prosperity or equality. What is here being called "True Communism" inevitably becomes "Red Fascism" because that is what would be required to bring "True Communism" about in the first place. If you consider the economic problems of socialism/communism on a step-by-step basis, the reasons why Stalinist-style communism arose become clear, as does the inevitability of it all. Consider some points: 1. Equality is a most unnatural phenomenon among all creatures. As everyone has different skills, abilities, and goals, so too will people have different results. This natural order must be suppressed under a socialist system. And the plan also requires everyone's participation, it is not optional. Enter coercion and force, and the victimizing of those who refuse to participate in the plan. Uniformity must be preserved, enter propaganda. Ect. 2. The "Problem of Knowledge" is that no one person or entity has sufficient knowledge to command all the complex relationships that exist in a macroeconomy. Economics is why socialism fails to achieve it's results, as planned economies eventually always stagnate and fail. Dreams are nice but reality is real. Communism cannot work, and the enslaving of society which results from it is something I'll pass on.
Then what u reckon is better then communism? In the sense of its goals as a political system... Democracy... sounds similar in a sense of equality. I also think that Stalinist communism... is not communism, its pure hypocracy
You only think that Stalinism isn't communism because you don't want it to be, for if it were, then you're faith in communism would be obviously absurd. Stalinism is communist just like Maosim and Marxism and Leninism is communist. No private property, common ownership of the means of production, conscription of labor, totalitarianism, ect. Socialism can only be brought about by methods which even socialists deem abhorrent; Stalin was the method, his tactics were what was required to finish the process of socialization of Russian society. Any nation that embarks on the path of communism will experience the same phenomenon because it has to. Those who oppose the reform must be crushed, those who refuse to participate in the central economic plan must be forced to participate or be crushed, ideas which don't mesh with the new society cannot be allowed, and the list goes on. What is pure hypocrisy is communism itself, which says it wants to "liberate the proletariat" and "eliminate the state" but in practice only enslaves the proletariat to the state once it gains control over both.
"Is True Communism that bad?" ಠ_ಠ Every contry that becomes communist, kill or arrest all the opposition and the intellectuals and 10% of the population. Stalin killed over 40 MILLION people in Ukraine and all over Russia. Mao Tse Tung killed more than 20 MILLION people. Freedom ? The communists ban the use of that word from their dictionaries and schools. Equality ? One day you have a 3 million dollars castle. One week later, you live in a farm, laboring all the time. Oh, and tell me one communist state that is a higly-evolved, 1st world contry that is present in our days. Communism is an imperfect, defective and repressive political system. Only mad men like Kim Jong-Il follows that kind system. Justice ? Go here. Stalinism IS communism. Lenism-Marxism IS communism. Socialism IS communism. Is better to live in a poor country, rather then live in USSR and have all your rights and freedom wasted.
someone said, that socialism=communism. i disagree- you see, communism main idea is to use violence to achive equality, however socialism goal is to achieve equality... trough peace! no offence, but the guy, who said socialism=communism have no understanding main ideas of these 2 ideologies. Communism has been failed. However, like it or not, world is moving towards socialism- we all want equality in some way or another and by current rate, socialism rules in millenia or so. However socialism=good, communism=worst thing ever. PS! dont get me wrong, i still hate communism, but you guys MUST draw the line between socialism and communism.
Socialism and Communism both share the essential foundation of collective ownership of the means of production. So Communism IS Socialism, and the differences lay only in terminology and convenience. In fact, communists and socialists used the words interchangeably for much of their history. As far as socialism being "good," I can only say no. The economics of socialism are impossible, and using the state's monopoly of violence and coercion to steal from one group to give to another is morally wrong. Centrally planned economies can never be as productive as market economies. What makes people's lives better are increases in production and technological advancement. Socialist economies are inferior to free market economies in both respects because they retard innovation and hamper production. Any system, such as socialism, which uses as its first weapon institutionalized theft, cannot be said to be good. Add to that the lack of individual property rights and mankind becomes nothing less than slave-kind, at best working to subsidize fellow citizens against their will, and at worst working in the service of the state.
No governmental structure or economic structure can be good in its pure form; even Capitalism can be dangerous when left unchecked (look at the United States from the post-Civil War period to the progressive era, where corporations would hire private militant groups or bring in Federal troops to suppress workers' protests), but pure Communism is especially dangerous. The system essentially robs individuals of their healthy competitive drive to thrive and succeed. It reminds me of the John Lennon song "Imagine"; so many people love that song, but personally I hate it beyond measure. It describes a world -a Communist world- in which man is robbed of everything that inspires progress thought. In a pure Communist world, nobody would be able to experience the joy of success, and there would be no academic or intellectual communities. While the former thought is terrible indeed, the latter is far worse. As an intellectual myself, I could not imagine a world in which there was no possession, no religion, no philosophy, and no achievement. Why raise the lowest common denominator of society up when they have done nothing to deserve it?
seriously just look at stalin in wikipedia then you will know how bad communism was (or chairman mao too)
There are already many good contributions here so, in sum, Communism is not possible and even if it were it would not be a perfect thing like the commies like to paint it. Who knows what is really good for others? To make everyone one equal would mean taking away our individual freedoms and rights as intervention would be necessary. So Communism is a lie, a discourse that can never be achieved but as it sounds good, politically correct and can be used to make others "look evil" it attracts many followers.
This can equally be said of capitalism. Your argument is just reductionist. The difference between marxism and capitalism is that the latter is defined by exploitation and requires a class system to maintain itself. Which in many respects actually makes communism quite a good theory. As you say though, the theory just can never be realistic. One balanced blend of communist theory in a capitalist society is to have a number of public state run systems that can also compete with the private ones. The problem with capitalism is its aggressiveness and rather destructive effects on the markets. Which is why there are increasingly fewer corporations, but a rise in multi-nationals and mega-corporations. There is also the system where corporations work with politicians legally, such as funding their campaigns to effect social order and outcomes. This makes it impossible to expect that the state would therefore maintain any state run competition with private companies. Therefore the public has no corporate ethos where a business is going to make public interest or care for the community a part of their goals, there is only an exploitation. This is why we get constant mass redundancies and a rise in costs but a fall in salaries. The international economic crisis we see right now is due to the cracks in the capitalist ideology. It can only end in a depression since it depends on outsourcing, outpricing, cutting costs and generally profit-based system which ironically leads to ruining its own market and alienating its customers. This is a fact that the world economy is starting to realise, and it is very difficult to force corporations to accept regulations which protect the balance of service and profit. These are the real reasons why communism attracts so many followers.
Communism can be effective, but only under very strict (and basically unrealistic) circumstances. The only "positive" example of communism is San Marino. After WWII, the fascist party lost its votes in elections and the communist party made strong progress (and eventually ruled the country for several years). They didn't murder the opposition and they accepted it when they weren't re-elected. They always remained loyal to the constitution. It might well be that they only remained good because they were bound by laws in the oldest republic of the world, and because they were thus unable to commit the usual theft, murder and torture that communism has always brought along, but still, they runned the country in a fair way. Most communists don't know this example, but those who would mention it as an argument in favour of communism should also realise that due to the party being bound by laws, they were in fact unable to implement the real communism, so therefore, they weren't trully communists, but rather socialists. As for the criticism on Stalin: at the beginning, he was as close as it got to the most pure communism, especially when he stopped the favours that farmers had received under Lenin as to motivate them to provide sufficient amounts of food. In doing so, Stalin introduced equality in Soviet-Russia among farmers and others. His great plans for the industrialization of Russia were also as red as it gets, just like the deportation of many Ukrainians to Siberia because they were needed there to collect raw materials. Also his conviction that an individual person's life held no value fits in, which lead hem to victory against the Germans despite staggering losses during every battle on russian soil. He was using the individuals for the benefit of the entire nation, just as Marx would have seen it, but history clearly shows that this brought horrible situations for the Russians. Still, he witnessed that motivated people would manufacture more/better, so he implemented Stachanovism (a system that offers rewards for people who do more/better work than others), thus admitting that communism doesn't work in it's pure way. I hope this makes the distinction clear between both of them.
You said it by yourself "Communism" is all hypocritical.... Communism was applied hypoctirically and all the Communist dictators (except Berbatov that he wasn't communist at all) were thinking only theirselves. Here is my question...WHAT IS REAL COMMUNISM that you want to mention to your question?
Being leftist is against the human individualist and egoist nature. Socialism and communism never worked and will never work. Just look at the "social-democracy" all around Europe and the world. They are getting bankrupt. Soon libertarianism will rise it's flag around the world and free the people on it.
Main idea of communism is good "state owns everything, and gives it people who need it". (nearly) Everything else is against my political ideals.
I am fairly sure that the original communist idea is that socialism would come after capitalism, then communism. In Marx's idea of communism, everyone would work for the community, rather than themselves. The problem with this is that humans are very competitive and would much rather keep something than give it up for everyone else. The whole process was meant to take a very long time, as Marx believed communism was the "evolved" product of thousands of years of systems he believed had failed. True communism is more or less impossible, as there will never be millions of humans willing to work for the betterment of others. True communism is also more like a hippie commune than a 1984-state like the Soviet Union. Countries such as Russia and North Korea have thrust themselves into "communism" far too early (as Marx would say) and have become dictatorships. I find the Communist Manifesto to be disturbing. I far prefer our capitalist system than a system in which everyone is completely equal and no one can succeed.
Accidentally made a double post, sorry. This is edited.
