XAI: Units optimization

XAI: Vanilla Units Optimization

The units in vanilla have a lot of discrepancies as I am sure you are aware.
In vanilla there are over 1000 units and I have no interest in balancing every single units stats as I have a lot of projects to work on, also I have a personal life.

I know there will be discrepencies in this module because I saw many units the may not have had their training properly categorized.

There are 4 levels of initial training; Poorly, trained, well, and elite. If they were mis-categorized by this then their moral level will be wrong. It is up to you guys to report these to me so I can correct them. So, I will leave this thread opened.

I did not see a need to do any changes to the basic units stats like melee and stuff at this point. Morale is the biggest issue with the units, and I have now calibrated them to the XAI system of morale.

Here are the changes:
Poorly trained got a big boost of moral from 23 to 35, the wavering threshold in my mod is set at 15 now, which is approx 42% of your initial moral. So they will fight longer before breaking. I do not want to vary too much from the 15 as the wavering threshold, because people will use XBAI on it's own. I may lower the poorly trained number if needed.

Trained is now set to 45

Well trained is at 55

Elites are all now at 65!! No more ridiculous numbers like 108!! This is where the biggest discrepancies were. Your generals are about where they should be now, and all those uber units only have their other stats to fall back on. They are now breakable but it will take some doing I am sure.

I have also changed the upkeep of units as well, to be 50% of the buy cost. That way it will work well with my dynamic stances mod! There were a lot of discrepancies in that as well.

If someone is really good at balancing units, then this will give you a great place to start. Or if someone knows of a really good units mod that had balanced units, then I can get permission to mod their files. So give me your feedback.

This module should work great, and I will have to make some other modules (I think for the add on packs). So this is purely a beta module right now.

It should make combat much better overall, as no units should be unbreakable. 65 points of moral is still quite a bit to overcome, but it is possible. Especially, if you are winning the battle. That was one of my biggest concerns, as those uber units would not leave the battlefield when the army was in defeat. I am sure some would argue that point.

After I do some testing of this module, I will post it as a separate download for you guys to beta test.
OK it seems to work fine.

I need your opinion though because I am torn about making a generals units elite or leave them as is, most are well trained.

It is located in the same place as XAI, there is no fancy graphic or anything, so you may need to enable out of date mods.
HERE

This is still a WIP

Units optimisation has not only to do with their stats.
It has to do with their status.
The most FAMOUS example in Attila is that ALL Roman generals are on foot! Even the Emperors!!!!
It seams that the CA/SEGA developers had brilliant History School teachers when they went to school!

You know there is a mod for that.
Skidivar's bodyguards

Ok question for anyone, How much do you feel would be fair for an onager unit? I am thinking around 500gp and 250gp maint for small and 750gp and 350gp.

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Originally Posted by xeryx

You know there is a mod for that.
Skidivar's bodyguards

Ok question for anyone, How much do you feel would be fair for an onager unit? I am thinking around 500gp and 250gp maint for small and 750gp and 350gp.

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Thnaks I will try that mod.
Now for onagers.
Depends of how many machines a unit includes.
That number is crusial because.
Such a unit MUST be able to create atleast a hole on enemy walls with -atleast its maximum ammunition-.
Things getting more complicated with onagers because men are not walls.
A huge rock can smash 3-4 people but also can hit NONE! How can we reach a accurate performance against solid targets and moving/wide spread ones? :yes:

Ok so how do I get them to scale with unit size?

I think 2 at small upto 6 at the largest wood work..hehehe

I have worked on naval unit ranges today and lowered the requirement for XP for naval units, because they only get xp for battles.

Hi Xeryx. I'm having solid fun playing Antes campaign with your mods. The diplomatic side of the mod is really top notch. The way the tribes interact with each other really helps the immersion.

Battle AL is surprisingly solid as well. Getting flanked by enemy cavalry every battle was a really nice surprise. It's especially fun on maps with thick forest area. I was suprised a few times by opponents Cav charging at my flanks from the woods.

I haven't played vanilla but I did go through a few popular Atilla mods and I have never been flanked by cavalry there so great job.

The only thing I believe needs work is the morale system.

I like to play battles on normal difficulty as to have more realistic battles.
And seeing a unit of low levy troops being cut down to 10 percent of their initial force— fighting pretty much surrounded with dead general and not routing is pretty unrealistic.

And the most annoying thing is when my Cavalry is being thrashed by archers in melee combat.... I mean a full cavalry unit charging an exposed archers/singers should rout them pretty fast. Instead my Cav spends most of the battles charging enemy missile units and by the battle end the missile units are still active. I have seen archers cut down to 5 men still fighting against cavalry in melee...

Like I mentioned before I do battles on Normal so any chance to adjust the morale to act more realistic on that level or at least lower the morale of levy and all missile units?

I assume that morale also gets a boost with higher difficulty levels?

Hey Arturo!

Glad you are enjoying it, I am working on a couple of morale changes, first it was too hard, then it is too easy. The morale is just hard to adjust to every situation, but you make a good point on the charges. Yes, there is a difficulty boost. I will add some more penalty to that, I should have a newer version up this weekend. I am working on occupation right now as I have figured out how that all works. I have also been adjusting the diplomacy to hopefully not be so annoying asking for alliances and such every dang turn.

I found an error in the morale system, the exhausted troops were not receiving a -4 morale penalty. I also upped the penalty for the unit's losses. I upped the the rear charge penalty to -10.

I will post the newest version up tonight.

Once again, I have no idea if it's related to your mods. Just wanted to share that the Garamantian units are brutally tough! (I'm playing the WRE.) I'm not talking about the difficulty settings or the AI, just their units. Their Desert Legionary Defectors, for example, cut through my Armigeri Defensores like nothing else I've encountered. I've even seen their Desert Bowmen defeat my Scholae Palatinae cav., in melee!!! Don't know their diet, but I want some of that!
Whereas one of my standard armies can take on 2 stacks of any other faction I've fought without serious problems, even 1:1 engagements with the Garamantians can be tricky. It took some serious effort and most of my armies to get rid of those mofos. Pardon my French. Now I can relax again and fight "regular", almost boring, legendary-level battles...

Hi.
Doesn't it have something to do with their bonuses for fighting in the dessert, davewolf101?

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Originally Posted by Acolyte212

Hi.
Doesn't it have something to do with their bonuses for fighting in the dessert, davewolf101?

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Yeah, sure. But the Gaetulians have the same modifier AFAIK. And they weren't even remotely as tough as the Garamantians. The latter felt like the elite of the elite.

There are a lot of units as I am going through the game, that are pretty unfairly balanced, even as an elite. Some of the units are like having us go up against Seal team 6. I have set defined limits to max values for a unit. The range will be from 10 to 85 for skills, and this will include any leveling and traits. There is a melee attack modifier, it acts as a bonus to all melee attack, in the BAI that could have been contributing as well. Because once you get beyond the levels of melee defence you can get a pretty unbalanced effect.