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Guys I have worked with you in early times - About the Kingdom of Georgia. I was studying Georgian military history at that time,I did not know some things.
Now my knowledge is perfect, Write to me - those who want to correct mistakes, especially shields need reskin.
This is my hard work
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...GEORGIA/page14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khevsur
After finding translation of Kartlis Tskhovreba and the Law of Beka-Agbugha, plus that neigbouring Trebizond overhaul is being worked on, those does spark my interest in possibly overhauling Georgian roster in foreseeable future. I am more interested in the structure of the army rather than how they looks for now, remembering how I am more of battle system manager than a modeller, and to update a overhauled roster with new variants is easier than overhauling an unit roster with both at the same time.
So here are things I'd like to know.
1. I haven't figured out the relation between Aznauri, Tadzreuli, and Monaspa - how they relate or intersect in a Venn Diagram. I understand that Aznauri are nobles, Tadzreuli are courtiers of the king, Monaspa is the dedicated servant army of the king. But someone can be an Aznaur via service to the king, the Msakheureuli Aznaurni, not via blood. Is Tadzreuli must be a noble by birth before they can serve as a courtier of the king, or can they be noble by service to the king? Then how about the Mona-Spa, I believe it is the King's standing army, no matter the background, so foreigner can be a member of it. More about the Monaspa, Wiki says Rokispa is commanded by the Monatukhutsesi - so is the Rokispa part of the Monaspa? (will determine the buildings and population class the units be recruited from)
2. I want to know if Tadzreuli are "courtiers" because they are given the rights to take the revenue of a certain parcel of royal lands as their salary - comparable to Byzantine Pronoia/Rus Pomeste/Turkish Timar/Islamic Iqta. Unlike Aznauri which are not necessarily a servant of the king, but merely obligated to fight for the king using the revenues and troops from their own feudal fief?(will determine the buildings the units be recruited from)
3. Who were the Aznaurshvili exactly? Junior Aznaur? Aznaur's Servants? (similar to Rus' Deti Boyarskie?) Their siskhli according to Law of Beka-Agbugha is high at 12.000 Tetri. Are they Aznaurs, or merely Aznaur's servants?
4. You once mentioned that the shields should have the coat of arms of each Georgian noble houses, similar to European knights. Alas, when I searched for Georgian CoA, most of them looks like from the 18th century after incorporated to the Russian Empire - it has that Westernized Baroque feel to it. Can you help me finding elements of Georgian CoA which can be traced to the medieval era?
So far, the Bagrationi Holy Cloak and David's Sling looks good for me, but I need more from other noble families.
5. How attuned were Georgians to Archery? Archery skill must be respected in Georgia, sure especially after meeting Turks and Mongols - But if they believe more in valiant melee combat, does Georgian nobles even want to practice archery? (will determine whether either Tadzreuli or Aznauri would be armed with bows after the 13th century, or purely melee)
6. For representing East Highlanders in one unit only, better use Mtieli or Pkhoveli?
7. You once mentioned the Torosani as the Georgian Barded Heavy Cavalry. Can you point me to the Mamuka Tsurtsumia's article that mention this?
8. Which name is better, Amirspalari's Bodyguard or Eristavi's Bodyguard, for non-king generals?
9. Is there any mention how Chukchi were armed and fought? (Kartlis Tskhovreba only stated the existence of the unit) I have an idea of making a 2h Axe and mace royal guard unit based on Dzruchi Gospel, but are those applicable to them?
10. Do you have more sources for Roki-Spa? I only found the Wiki.
11. Do you have more sources for Qrma/Qma as serfs that forms a defense militia, or serves as the feudal contingents of a local Aznaur?
12. What does Shuboshani Molashqre means? Many M2 mods have it, but I can't find their historical background.
13. Do you know about any English sources on Metsikhovne? If I search for them, it only returns Medieval 2 units, but not the literatures about their history.
14. Monaspa were no longer attested in the 14th and 15th century? The same with Roki-Spa? So they were completely replaced with Tadzreuli and Msakheureuli after the 13th century?
15. When guns first came to Georgia, which unit used it first? Was it the Metsikhovne?
Tadzreuli - It was a "military school" - . Here were aristocrats who had good relations with the king,Young sons of aristocrats, they wanted to learn to fight well in an elite unit. They were very good warriors. Rock Spa was a quickly recruited mercerany army of warriors of any nationality - Alans, Franks, Armenians, Scandinavians and so on. After the battle they were going to their homeland. Monaspa - this was done by David IV the builder - it was a regular army - there were North Caucasians, Kypchags, Georgian feudal lords - whose land was taken away by the enemy. It was a unit similar to the modern French Legion
It is not known that Georgian feudal houses had different shields. The aristocracy probably had luxurious shields, the peasants had simple shields. Georgian mountaineers have different shields-Smaller and lighter
Yes, Georgian feudal lords cavalry and their servants have been using bows since the 13th century. But their main weapon was the spear. Of course, Georgians used bows before (they were very good archers in Georgia), but mostly infantry.
The term - Pkhoveli is no longer found in the 14th century. It is better to be Mtieli
Chukhchi - It was the king's guard(They probably protected big feudal lords and generals) - the chosen warriors. Brutal two-handed weapons were often used. They fought in the battle as cavalry, in the palace as infantry
Mountaineers, peasants and castle guards fought as infantry . Georgians had very good spearmen Infantry . They were making a wall of shields. They were also good archers.
shubosani molashqre - It was probably the cavalry of the servants. A better name is Mokme I in the 11th-13th centuries. In the 14th-18th centuries - Msakhureuli
about guns - in 16 th century Georgian Kingdom - Kingdom of kakheti Were 500 gunner- They were probably infantry
persian gunner -
https://i.postimg.cc/mtV6Y5yh/Persian-Musketeer.jpg
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...GEORGIA/page32
Description of Georgian units- For Game
• Chukhchi - King's guard. They were physically strong and well-trained chosen warriors who always accompanied the king and protected him both on the battlefield and in peace time - in the royal palace. They were commanded by the commander of the guard - Chukhcherakhi (Achukhchi)
• Tadzreuli – from the Persian word Tacara – Palace. Paladins of the king or the noble bodyguard of the feudal lords. They were an elite heavy cavalry unit, few in numbers but high in competitive morale and skill. They were professional soldiers who were in constant military training. Tadzreuli included members of the royal family, young nobles from big feudal families, and even landless knights. Tadzreuli horsemen were heavily armed and their horses were also well-defended with horse armor.
• Aznauri– lower nobility, professional, well-trained warriors who held a small piece of land and were obliged to serve in the feudal army. Aznauri were the most numerous social class who made the bulk of Georgian heavy cavalry. Georgian heavy horsemen used the couched lance and mounted shock combat to break the enemy formation, inflict devastating damage, and cause their retreat. After the Mongolian conquest of Georgia and the influence of nomad warfare, Georgian cavalry also started to use mounted archery, but the charge of the heavy cavalry was still their main advantage even in the late medieval era.
• Mokme (Msakhureuli) – mostly promoted from lower classes, these heavy cavalrymen were chosen warriors whose main purpose was to always be ready for military action. They could be promoted and endued for their good service by their suzerain. “Kargi (a good) Mokme” was a synonym for the best warrior. Mokme was similar to the Western European knight in many ways, but the development of their ideology and knightly culture declined after the Mongol conquest of Georgia in the 13th century and they were called Msakhureuli (servants) which equals the ministerials in Western European feudalism.
• Monaspa – mercenary regular Elite unit of the Georgian king. They were highly disciplined, professional soldiers, armed with the best armament available. Monaspa was made by King David IV the builder in the 12th century. Their ranks were filled with landless Georgian lower nobility and north Caucasians, but mostly with Kypchaks. Kypchaks were settled in Georgia when David IV married the daughter of the Kypchak warlord Otrok and settled Otrok’s horde in Georgia to use their capable cavalry against the Seljuks. After the reign of David IV, Monaspa slowly decreased in numbers and disappeared after the big part of Otrok’s horde with their commander went back to the steppes and Georgian-Kypchak relations declined.
• Metsikhovne – Town (castle) watch. Units that guarded castles and town walls. Coming mostly from humble origin. There were spearmen and archer Metsikhovne units. On the battlefield, Metsikhovne infantry fought in close order formation and used their shields and spears to repel enemy attacks. They also were used to fire arrows in a volley.
• Pkhoveli – Fierce warriors from the mountainous region of eastern Georgia. They were first mentioned in ancient sources, in I century BC. These highlanders were free people who acknowledged the authority of the Georgian kings but weren’t part of Georgian feudal society. Pkhovians were masters of guerilla warfare especially in the mountainous areas. Since they wore black clothes and their shields were covered in soot and were black, enemies called them “Black Shield bearers”. In eastern Georgian highlanders, there was a tradition to cut off and collect the right hands of their dead enemies. Also, they had a bloody habit of blood feuding.
• Svani– Georgian sub-ethnic group, who lives in a mountainous region in western Georgia since ancient times. Svanians were strong and agile warriors, famous for their skilled archery and poisoned arrows. Svanians had the tradition of blood feuding like the eastern Georgian highlanders.
• Glekhi – Georgian peasants. They were peaceful farmers, poor smallholders of low social status who worked on the lands of Georgian nobles and paid taxes. Glekhi weren’t obliged to serve in the feudal army, but they were able to fight and were useful in defending the villages, and castles and sometimes even participated in battles, especially in the late medieval era, when the Georgian kingdom was divided into several small states with low military power.