Medieval Kingdoms Total War: the Seljuks of Rum (and the Ottomans)

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Originally Posted by Danishmend

I know. I noticed that after release --> http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15275304

The unit labelled as "Turcoman Horse Archers" was originally created for Empire of Niceae's roster as an auxiliary unit, but they were included in Seljuk roster by mistake. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15276831

That's why they are more expensive than Turkoman raiders even though have worse stats than Raiders. Removing the current "Turcoman Horse Archers" from the roster and bringing back old "Turcoman Raiders" would fix the problem, you can rename them as "Turcoman Horse Archers" of course.

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I see... I'll talk to Ltd about that unit but what you suggest makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Visarion

The correct name should be Zirhli Nefer. Also the Jannisary that chose to go in suicidal missions and become Sipahi, the competitive branch of the army and "betray" their brethren and their sect should be represented. The "suicidal" Janissary. Similar to Samurai I guess. Their unit's name is the family name of many Turks nowadays. Serdengecti.

Also names should be changed into Yeniceri and simply Solak without archer following. And Solak should wield the yatagan with their left hand.

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There is no "correct" name for that unit. Zirhli means armoured. and Nefer means soldier. Also, Serdengecti was a term to describe those who volunteered to be the first line of attack, specially during a siege. Since the rewards were also high (double pay, promise of timars, etc) soldiers from different part of the army signed up for the job, not just Yeniceris. But they didn't form a coherent unit, since the survivors were either promoted or returned to their original units after the siege.

Should I call Yeniceri Billmen and Gunners also simply Yeniceri??? would be nice to have three units with the same name.

Regarding Yatagans, and with all due respect, you simply don't know what you're talking about. They weren't around until at least mid to late 16th century, if we wanna be super optimistic about it.

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Originally Posted by Wallachian

Great work guys this is fantastic! Just a quick question, the Musellems seem to only be armed with swords. It seems a bit odd to have cavalry armed only with swords and no charging spear or something like that. Is this correct?

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Well there's not mention of how they fought, but since they were inexperienced peasants, I assumed they wouldn't know how to form ranks and charge into enemy lines effectively. Think of them as a fast scout unit, nothing more.

@hessam

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...jpg?1318992465

Suggestion:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://i.imgur.com/XQVLPIh.jpg

Is it possible to add some Mail armour for those billmens?

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Originally Posted by Visarion

The correct name should be Zirhli Nefer.

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Zırhlı Nefer which just means Armoured Soldier or like Zırhlı/Armoured Yeniçeri/Janissary Archers

Zırhlı = Armoured

Nefer = Soldier

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Originally Posted by Visarion

Also the Jannisary that chose to go in suicidal missions and become Sipahi, the competitive branch of the army and "betray" their brethren and their sect should be represented. The "suicidal" Janissary.

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Any Source? This is really confusing - maybe they became Silahtar or Kapıkulu since we know that most Sipahis were Christians.

@hessam

my suggestions

Simply

Yeniceri

Solak

Zirhli Nefer

Siege Yeniceri instead of Billmen

Serdengecti instead of Kapikulu Heavy Infantry

Adding different Jannisary and Sipahi buildings and land owners or nobles recruited if constructing farms... conscripts simply from upgrading cities... armatoloi if building fortresses and so on... tradesmiths or guilds for those craftsmen etc. Guilds for naffatun etc. You get the point... but necessarily a diffetent building unique for janissary and sipahi and as they were mortal enemies and fought in different contingents you should have janissary and sipahi leaders and if you build a janissary building you cannot get a sipahi one in the same settlement. Also if sipahi are in janissary urban area huge civil strife, penalties and so on...

Well maybe a self standing Serdengecti Infantry as I see indeed in the laye era Kapikulu Infantry became predominent and a real choice... not only in times of needs but a permanent contingent and a pretty powetful one too... 10,000 men strong corps

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...fantry&f=false







Edit 6000 sry

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Originally Posted by Visarion

Also the Jannisary that chose to go in suicidal missions and become Sipahi

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Originally Posted by Nebaki

@Visarion

Any Source? This is really confusing - maybe they became Silahtar or Kapıkulu since we know that most Sipahis were Christians.

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He meant "Serdengeçti".

Most Tımarlı Sipahis were Muslim Turks, though there were many Christians among their ranks. Kapıkulu Sipahis on the other hand were exclusively Muslims (devşirme).

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Originally Posted by Visarion

Also names should be changed into Yeniceri and simply Solak without archer following. And Solak should wield the yatagan with their left hand.

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Yatagans are out of mod's timeframe.

Oh unlike Nebaki I say that tge colour scheme is really good... it suits the Ottoman choice of nuances

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Originally Posted by Danishmend

He meant "Serdengeçti".

Most Tımarlı Sipahis were Muslim Turks, though there were many Christians among their ranks.

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Im more for Kapikulu Heavy Infantry since we already had an big "Issue" with the reliability of "Serdengeçti" which ended in closing this Topic - or even Janissary Heavy Infantry would be fit here.

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Originally Posted by Visarion

Oh unlike Nebaki I say that tge colour scheme is really good... it suits the Ottoman choice of nuances

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I don´t know Billmens with Silk as Armour are confusing me more ;)

Yeah you are right about kapikulu inf

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...fantry&f=false

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Originally Posted by Nebaki

Is it possible to add some Mail armour for those billmens?

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It's not clear whether Yeniceris wore armor under their robes. Existing miniatures don't suggest anything like that. Though their armor stats in game will be higher than the simple kaftan or tunic of Azaps, for example.

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Originally Posted by Visarion

@hessam

my suggestions

Simply

Yeniceri

Solak

Zirhli Nefer

Siege Yeniceri instead of Billmen

Serdengecti instead of Kapikulu Heavy Infantry

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Only Solaks here are a viable option. The rest don't make much sense.

Serdengecti like in oathsworn like samurai not crazy "barbarians" with bombs attached to their bodies like I saw on the Tamise... wtf we are history fans...

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Originally Posted by Nebaki

Im more for Kapikulu Heavy Infantry since we already had an big "Issue" with the reliability of "Serdengeçti" which ended in closing this Topic - or even Janissary Heavy Infantry would be fit here.

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"Kapıkulu/Yeniçeri Heavy Infantry" is ok for me too. As for reliability of "Serdengeçti", their presence is well documented. They weren't exclusively chosen among Kapıkulu, any infantryman could become a Serdengeçti. They were "head-riskers" who participated in assault missions. Anyway, it's up to the modders.

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Originally Posted by Danishmend

They weren't exclusively chosen among Kapıkulu

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You have the Source for this?

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Originally Posted by hessam

It's not clear whether Yeniceris wore armor under their robes. Existing miniatures don't suggest anything like that. Though their armor stats in game will be higher than the simple kaftan or tunic of Azaps, for example.

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I would really appreciate too see an option for upgrading those Billmens like you did it on the Archer Variant ;) - Since we know that Janissaries worn Armour and was skilled in many Weapons.

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Originally Posted by Nebaki

You have the Source for this?

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They were volunteers, they could be from any segment of the army. Those volunteers were enlisted as "Serdengeçti" or "Dalkılıç", so it's true that they didn't really form a standing unit.

It is not a big deal anyway, the heavy infantry is there as we can see.

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Originally Posted by Danishmend

They were volunteers, they could be from any segment of the army. Those volunteers were enlisted as "Serdengeçti" or "Dalkılıç", so it's true that they didn't really form a standing unit.

It is not a big deal anyway, the heavy infantry is there as we can see.

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From what are you saying it just remembers this entry from Wikipedia which just mention the "Akıncı" as the "Serdengeçti"

It also mentioning the "Deli"

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...Anadolu parsı kürkünden kıyafetleriyle akıncılar içerisinde kolaylıkla tanınabilirler. Ayrıca düşman askerlerini korkutmak için taktıkları kuş tüyleriyle süslenmiş miğferleriyle bilinirler.

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Source:https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdenge%C3%A7ti#cite_note-1

YES! They are finally there, been waiting a long time for the Ottomans. They are just such an iconic faction and the units are just stunningly beautiful. :thumbsup2:clap:
Also really like the additions you made to tier 1.

One thing I am somewhat confused by is that the the Kapikulu bodyguard seem to be a lot less armored than the other Kapikulu units, why is that? I would assume bodyguards to get the best armor available.

I also think that Yeniceri billmen is a somewhat weird name, I would assume that these weapons also have a Turkish name and I think that would be more appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Knight2708

YES! They are finally there, been waiting a long time for the Ottomans. They are just such an iconic faction and the units are just stunningly beautiful. :thumbsup2:clap:
Also really like the additions you made to tier 1.

One thing I am somewhat confused by is that the the Kapikulu bodyguard seem to be a lot less armored than the other Kapikulu units, why is that? I would assume bodyguards to get the best armor available.

I also think that Yeniceri billmen is a somewhat weird name, I would assume that these weapons also have a Turkish name and I think that would be more appropriate.

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The Silahdars are wearing plate and mail, which is the best armour factions of that region get.

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Originally Posted by Knight2708

I also think that Yeniceri billmen is a somewhat weird name, I would assume that these weapons also have a Turkish name and I think that would be more appropriate.

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I am not sure about bill but hooks are called "kanca" and pollaxe/halberds are called "baltalı kargı" in Turkish, which literally means "lance with axe". There is also "tığ-ı teber" (I guess this one is Persian) that has similar meaning.

This type of axes (berdiche?) are called "Aybalta" (crescent-shaped axe).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...0c9ed330ea.jpg

Polearm Yeniceri?

No no it's Siege Janissary