David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

Point me to them and I will surely answer.

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Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun

One doesn't have to be God to judge its creation. Are you questioning God's power to appoint someone to pass judgment? Your logic has no basis.

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PointOfViewGun,

Oh one can judge creation but only God has the power to send them to hell. As God is God and therefore the Supreme Judge, why would He appoint another lesser being to do His own Work? Jesus Christ being God and our coming Judge, it is therefore logical to accept that He is the One in Whose destiny your next existence is dependent upon. In His words it is written, " A man cannot enter heaven unless he is born again of the Spirit of God." and " No man can come to the Father except by Me and no man can come to Me except the Father draws him." That's the only way one gets into heaven even for a Muslim.

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

Oh one can judge creation but only God has the power to send them to hell. As God is God and therefore the Supreme Judge, why would He appoint another lesser being to do His own Work? Jesus Christ being God and our coming Judge, it is therefore logical to accept that He is the One in Whose destiny your next existence is dependent upon. In His words it is written, " A man cannot enter heaven unless he is born again of the Spirit of God." and " No man can come to the Father except by Me and no man can come to Me except the Father draws him." That's the only way one gets into heaven even for a Muslim.

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That's the only way someone can enter heaven based on the Bible. That's not the way for a Muslim. You're trying to dance around the question. This is rather double speak you're doing. Only God having the power to send someone to hell does not take away from the fact that God can choose anyone to pass judgment on its behalf. Are you questioning that ability of God?

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Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun

That's the only way someone can enter heaven based on the Bible. That's not the way for a Muslim. You're trying to dance around the question. This is rather double speak you're doing. Only God having the power to send someone to hell does not take away from the fact that God can choose anyone to pass judgment on its behalf. Are you questioning that ability of God?

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Well yes he has to. Because he believes in Augustine's original sin/Manichaeism and the fall of creation which God can only solve by an incredibly convoluted method - which implies god can in fact a make a rock very nearly so heavy he cannot easily move without a Rube Goldberg device.

PointOfViewGun,

Well if it is only what the Bible says why does a Muslim need mercy from Allah to enter paradise? And as for the Judgement He has ordained Jesus Christ to be our Judge, why? Because Jesus Christ was our Creator as well as our God and only He has the power to dissolve this creation to bring about the New Heaven and Earth. He doesn't need anyone else to do what He is perfectly capable of doing Himself. So, why do you doubt that?

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

Well if it is only what the Bible says why does a Muslim need mercy from Allah to enter paradise? And as for the Judgement He has ordained Jesus Christ to be our Judge, why? Because Jesus Christ was our Creator as well as our God and only He has the power to dissolve this creation to bring about the New Heaven and Earth. He doesn't need anyone else to do what He is perfectly capable of doing Himself. So, why do you doubt that?

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A Muslim being at the mercy of Allah does not make what the Bible says truer than anything else. There is no logic connection there. Allah could appoint a tree to judge humanity and that would be fine as we're talking about an all powerful being. It choosing Jesus as the judge doesn't make Jesus some supernatural being. You are trying to connecting unrelated points to claim a causality but they are fundamentally false. It is quite troubling to see you depend fundamental points of faith on such falsehoods.

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Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun

A Muslim being at the mercy of Allah does not make what the Bible says truer than anything else. There is no logic connection there. Allah could appoint a tree to judge humanity and that would be fine as we're talking about an all powerful being. It choosing Jesus as the judge doesn't make Jesus some supernatural being. You are trying to connecting unrelated points to claim a causality but they are fundamentally false. It is quite troubling to see you depend fundamental points of faith on such falsehoods.

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PointOfViewGun,

Then why does a Muslim need mercy to enter paradise? And, why would Allah choose Jesus to judge the world when in his name, Mohammed declared him a false prophet? Why is it not Mohammed who is coming to judge all things? Surely the fundamentals of anything is that they are true so what's illogical about your statements is why your god would choose a loser to judge anything?

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

Then why does a Muslim need mercy to enter paradise? And, why would Allah choose Jesus to judge the world when in his name, Mohammed declared him a false prophet? Why is it not Mohammed who is coming to judge all things? Surely the fundamentals of anything is that they are true so what's illogical about your statements is why your god would choose a loser to judge anything?

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Mohammed never declared Jesus as a false prophet. God has the power to choose anyone to judge in its place. You are practically denying it such power as you introduce a rule by yourself that somehow someone needs to be son of God to judge people. Why are you putting words in God's mouth? That's quite blasphemous.

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Why is it not Mohammed who is coming to judge all things?

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No made up fallen world by Augustine original sin everything god damned.

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Surely the fundamentals of anything is that they are true so what's illogical about your statements is why your god would choose a loser to judge anything?

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You seem rude to arrogant in this. Why would your god damn all of creation(which he judged good and 99.999999999999...% of had no part in the sin) for the sins of three individuals and than wait a inexplicable amount of time to devise an arcane system to let people escape that but also explicitly excluding so many?

His choice of words reflect the lack of merit of his arguments.

PointOfViewGun,

My choice of words comply with what is written in the Book known as the Bible which as Jesus said is the word of God.

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My choice of words comply with what is written in the Book known as the Bible which as Jesus said is the word of God.

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Rather what people who never met him say he said.

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

My choice of words comply with what is written in the Book known as the Bible which as Jesus said is the word of God.

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Funny enough Jesus never said that.

PointOfViewGun,

Jesus said, " Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that cometh from the mouth of God." Where is that word? Well the Old Testament which was His Bible and the words that He spoke recorded in the New Testament by people who heard Him especially, " Heaven and earth may pass away but My words will never pass away."

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

Jesus said, " Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that cometh from the mouth of God." Where is that word? Well the Old Testament which was His Bible and the words that He spoke recorded in the New Testament by people who heard Him especially, " Heaven and earth may pass away but My words will never pass away."

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How do you know Jesus said that?

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He spoke recorded in the New Testament by people who heard Him especially

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Yet you have no record of what the man may or may not have said.

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Originally Posted by basics

PointOfViewGun,

Jesus said, " Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that cometh from the mouth of God." Where is that word? Well the Old Testament which was His Bible and the words that He spoke recorded in the New Testament by people who heard Him especially, " Heaven and earth may pass away but My words will never pass away."

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Not everything in the Bible are Jesus' words. Not every word in it attributed to Jesus are accepted by all Christians as his words either. Bible, at best, is not the word of God, but what the later Christian believed and chose among many others as the words of Jesus' entourage on what they think Jesus said. Jesus never said the Bible was and is the word of God. That's you putting words in his mouth.

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Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun

Not everything in the Bible are Jesus' words. Not every word in it attributed to Jesus are accepted by all Christians as his words either. Bible, at best, is not the word of God, but what the later Christian believed and chose among many others as the words of Jesus' entourage on what they think Jesus said. Jesus never said the Bible was and is the word of God. That's you putting words in his mouth.

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You do realize that's not how Calvinists see it right? I would just like basics to admit he did not read the gospel of either Thomas or Mary and at least weight them against the text he is sure is the word of god. I'm not even going to bother to ask if he has examined the Infancy Gospel of Thomas... pretty sure he has not.

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Originally Posted by conon394

You do realize that's not how Calvinists see it right? I would just like basics to admit he did not read the gospel of either Thomas or Mary and at least weight them against the text he is sure is the word of god. I'm not even going to bother to ask if he has examined the Infancy Gospel of Thomas... pretty sure he has not.

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But also, like any other religious text written hundreds or thousands of years ago, there is no independent evidence of whom actually wrote the words down other than 'eyewitness who became a believer'. Therefore trust in it's source is equal to any other religious text.

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Originally Posted by antaeus

But also, like any other religious text written hundreds or thousands of years ago, there is no independent evidence of whom actually wrote the words down other than 'eyewitness who became a believer'. Therefore trust in it's source is equal to any other religious text.

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Well I am reasonably confident that there was a Paul who had a spiritual event and did write the letters he says he wrote and some of those were preserved in an admittedly jammed together form. A few are clearly not by him but several do comprise a likely preserved body of work. Thus its notable that he knows nothing of the gospels or quotes them by there supposed authors. The man relays on his own visons as he claims of only referencing the OT. But obviously there is no self written text by Jesus so yes the claim of word of god is not stronger or weaker than for the Koran for example.