Women in Warfare

[Kleos]

Women in Warfare

What is your opinion on women being involved in warfare? Personally; I feel that women should not be allowed in to combat situations where their lives may be put at risk. It is not because I believe them inferior – I recognise that men generally have natural advantages in strength, power, ability to kill etc; but feel that with high enough training in terms of skill this slight difference doesn’t really matter with modern warfare.

My problem is with the underlying reason for why a nation goes to war: to protect or further its people’s interests. This is the reason for most, if not all, wars. Though many may (and probably will) disagree, simply speaking imperialism was aimed at furthering the interests of the home nation, while even the war in Iraq can be seen as the US dealing with a rouge state that may have posed a threat to the USA.

Keeping this in mind as the one of the only reasons for war, I feel using women in fighting goes against the interests of looking after your nation’s people. Women are the most important part of a community – be it on a tribal or national level – they are the most important feature in continuing the survival of the population and should not be used in warfare; in-fact their survival and well being is a reason to got to war. People may simply point out that there is only a small number of women who are involved in frontline fighting and only a very small percentage of a nation’s population is actually involved in modern warfare. But to me this is beside the point – my reservations lie with the principle and moral side of warfare.

What do other people feel, does anyone disagree with women’s role in warfare, be it for moral or practical reasons? How many feel that there is no problem with women’s involvement, and that I am simply being over traditional and conservative?

[Niles Crane]

Whenever a woman is killed in combat, there is always a news article about it accompanied by a huge uproar of anger from the public. It was the woman who chose to join the army, nobody forced her. But if we refuse their application to join it, they will complain. You just can't win in this world.

[Leonidas The Lion]

Well in the end the choice is up to them ans no matter what people say the women who choose to go to warfare will.

BTW i think this belongs in the ethos sub-forum.

[Blau&Gruen]

Who can vote, can also shoot. Women can be excellent shooters.

[awisler]

As Dorian Gray said, there is always some huge uproar if a woman dies in combat. It was her choice to go there. But what really makes me mad, is that there are tons of woman who say men and woman are equal, but when a woman dies in combat they make this huge deal about it saying how bad it was, but if that had been a guy that died they wouldnt have cared as much.

I think that once woman truly become equal to men - as in they do so through actions and not just saying things aloud, then they can go to combat if they pass the same training as men. I once heard a woman say that the army should let woman in combat but having lower standards for the woman's fitness tests. Well, why would they even bother if there is a man that can do what you do fitness wise but better? Because the enemy is not going to care if your a woman, you will still be put in the same situations as the men.

[Feliks]

Who can vote, can also shoot. Women can be excellent shooters.

As demonstrated by female Soviet snipers during WWII, often times surpassing the kill count of their male counterparts.

Here's how I think the matter should be decided, don't ban women from serving in any aspect of the military, even the front lines. But you should keep the basic strength/fitness requirements the same for both men and women. If a women can pass the same tests for combat readiness I can see no reason why they should be barred from serving their country.

[The Thracian]

It is a womans right to choose her path and Job in life. Women should be given equal oppoturnties to men in all jobs as sometimes women can do a better Job then a man could have. Although there are some things you will never see alot of women doing like motor racing because the sheer majority regard it as a male sport only and leave it. But Katherine Legge for example is showing how women can be a force in the world of motorsport. More women then ever Join the army but I don't think uproar should be given over a woman soldiers death more then a mans

[Cluny the Scourge]

Keeping this in mind as the one of the only reasons for war, I feel using women in fighting goes against the interests of looking after your nation’s people. Women are the most important part of a community – be it on a tribal or national level – they are the most important feature in continuing the survival of the population and should not be used in warfare; in-fact their survival and well being is a reason to got to war. People may simply point out that there is only a small number of women who are involved in frontline fighting and only a very small percentage of a nation’s population is actually involved in modern warfare. But to me this is beside the point – my reservations lie with the principle and moral side of warfare.

You're making no sense at all. What country isn't overpopulated these days? No nation's survival is going to be jeopardised if every last one of their female-fighters are slaughtered.

[Lord Bohemond]

Yes, more women are joining the military than ever, and the sex lawsuits are higher than ever and are completely devastating armed forces.

Sorry, but ideology doesn't trump practicality. This just isn't working.

[Francisco Montana]

Thread moved to the Mudpit. ~ Lord Gruffles

[Sosobra]

Yes, more women are joining the military than ever, and the sex lawsuits are higher than ever and are completely devastating armed forces.

Sorry, but ideology doesn't trump practicality. This just isn't working.

Do you have any data or just empty words and knee jerk, I have been out(Marines) since 2006 so maybe things have changed drastically, but when I was in it there was not a devastating string of lawsuits that was crushing everyone. Unless you are referring to the academy scandals, in which case the lawsuits have brought into light an academy with some issues. Those issues should be fixed not brushed aside because they might land some dirty bags ass in the brig.

Women should be able to serve like everyone else and serve free from harassment. Just like when the Armed forces where being integrated there where some serious issues but that should not and did not stop interracial units.

How can an army defend democracy and freedom if it does espouse the most basic of our tenets?

[Lord Bohemond]

Do you have any data or just empty words and knee jerk, I have been out(Marines) since 2006 so maybe things have changed drastically, but when I was in it there was not a devastating string of lawsuits that was crushing everyone. Unless you are referring to the academy scandals, in which case the lawsuits have brought into light an academy with some issues. Those issues should be fixed not brushed aside because they might land some dirty bags ass in the brig.

To my knowledge, this is less of a problem in the Marines than in the Army.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/4006
http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story...3-09-05&cat=AN

Iraq is a formula for disaster.

-Stressful combat situation
-Little or no opportunity for relief of sexual tension
-teenage hormones (most military personel are in their late teens or early 20s.)
-A handful of women in the barracks among the men.

That doesn't sound too smart to me.

Women should be able to serve like everyone else and serve free from harassment. Just like when the Armed forces where being integrated there where some serious issues but that should not and did not stop interracial units.

What are you going to do? Mandatory castration?

Though I did read one sci-fi pulp fiction, The Forever War, where all the soldiers were rendered sterile, and it was against regulations for the women to refuse sexual favors.

That's an effective, but ruthless solution. I think it would just be wiser to just segregate the two.

And doesn't your argument apply in reverse? Do all the male officers and NCO's have to live in constant fear of charges? All that it takes for his career to be ruined is a woman who gets mad at him for whatever reason and claim that he's "discriminating" against her.

How can an army defend democracy and freedom if it does espouse the most basic of our tenets?

As you probably noticed from your own service, the military isn't a democracy.

[Daovonnaex]

Women should be able to serve like everyone else and serve free from harassment.

Welcome to la-la land. Men are always going to hit on women, no matter what.

[Templar Knight]

women troops also double as hot mamas

http://www.maximonline.com/girls_of_...nseForces.girl

hot DAMN!

If a lot of women in the army looked like that I would go join right now abandoning my career and girlfriend.

[Lord Bohemond]

If I knew all women in the military looked like that, I would walk away. Being surrounded by beautiful women, but knowing that you can't approach any of them without getting thrown in the brig would be unbearable.

[Sosobra]

To my knowledge, this is less of a problem in the Marines than in the Army.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/4006
http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story...3-09-05&cat=AN

Iraq is a formula for disaster.

-Stressful combat situation
-Little or no opportunity for relief of sexual tension
-teenage hormones (most military personel are in their late teens or early 20s.)
-A handful of women in the barracks among the men.

That doesn't sound too smart to me.



What are you going to do? Mandatory castration?

Though I did read one sci-fi pulp fiction, The Forever War, where all the soldiers were rendered sterile, and it was against regulations for the women to refuse sexual favors.

That's an effective, but ruthless solution. I think it would just be wiser to just segregate the two.

And doesn't your argument apply in reverse? Do all the male officers and NCO's have to live in constant fear of charges? All that it takes for his career to be ruined is a woman who gets mad at him for whatever reason and claim that he's "discriminating" against her.



As you probably noticed from your own service, the military isn't a democracy.

In may be more prevalent in the Army then Marines, I have actual heard of female officers putting the squeeze on NCOs so to speak, the staff sergeant I know was married and found the Majors advanceds causing problems at home of him. . The claims that our brought forth usually have a large amount of evidence and corroboration.

The fact of the matter is that if woman or man does not want someone to hit on them the other person should not. Both sexes need to exercise self control
and some discipline, if they cannot the should not be carrying weapons.

You wouldn't keep African Americans and Latinos out of the military because racist dillholes can't keep there mouthes shut , and the same should go for women in the military.

Of course the military is not a democracy and I didn't say that but to fight for American values and human values one should have a few of them and preferably the best ones.

If I knew all women in the military looked like that, I would walk away. Being surrounded by beautiful women, but knowing that you can't approach any of them without getting thrown in the brig would be unbearable.

You can approach them and date as long as you do not act like a tool or a chauvinistic pig, just like in the real world.

[Farnan]

Yea, a good amount of military women get married to military men (though not the other way around). An active duty officer and active duty enlistedman (or woman) can't go out, but that is the only real restriction.

About women soldiers...

3 Female cousins of mine are in the military (one an Iraq Veteran, one about to head over and one in Basic). And my best friend, who is a woman, is about to head to Basic Training. You can guess my opinion about females in the military.

[killerchinchilla]

I agree in principal to the use of women in front line combat, women can make just as good soldiers as men and certainly bring something different to the armed forces. However I disagree with there use in reality. The Israelis used to have women in front line combat units, but if they were captured they tended to be treated so badly, raped even, it made their continued use impossible. The same treatment has happened for many women in warfare, the USSR's women soldiers being a good example.

I think the media treatment of women in the military doesn't help either, look at Faye Turney, one of the sailors the Iranians seized. They used her extensively for propaganda, the media focused on her and her child, and when she was released she got the biggest deal to sell her story.

[Farnan]

I agree in principal to the use of women in front line combat, women can make just as good soldiers as men and certainly bring something different to the armed forces. However I disagree with there use in reality. The Israelis used to have women in front line combat units, but if they were captured they tended to be treated so badly, raped even, it made their continued use impossible. The same treatment has happened for many women in warfare, the USSR's women soldiers being a good example.

I think the media treatment of women in the military doesn't help either, look at Faye Turney, one of the sailors the Iranians seized. They used her extensively for propaganda, the media focused on her and her child, and when she was released she got the biggest deal to sell her story.

I'm against women in combat units for one simple reason. Male psychology puts protection of women at a high priority, above sense and discipline. So if a women goes down injured, men are likely to break discipline and try to help her instead of suppress the enemy. So instead of one injured soldier, you now have two or more.

[Sosobra]

I'm against women in combat units for one simple reason. Male psychology puts protection of women at a high priority, above sense and discipline. So if a women goes down injured, men are likely to break discipline and try to help her instead of suppress the enemy. So instead of one injured soldier, you now have two or more.

Agreed and until (if ever) this perception changes women should not be in infantry combat , everything else helios, Fighter etc should be open to them , hell maybe even tanks ( I am going to wax primal here , but there is something hot about a women in command of tank...