The late antique (military/economy/politics)

**elendir** · December 21, 2007, 04:44 AM

phiuuuuu

lots of thinking! Thanks a lot of course.

I have read that the first lines in battle were equipped with armour and those behind weren't, but I thought that this was achieved by spreading the "good" units on the front supported by "bad" ones. I didn't think there was actually so much difference in weaponry within the same unit!

The timeframes I'm interested are mainly the Julian era and the end VI beginning VII centuries; against the sassanians. Mmmmmm....:hmmm:from your words it seems they were completely different armies. Maybe I should concentrate on one timeframe only.
Sorry if my answer comes so late. I believe you are in Germany. If so we have 9 hours difference btw us.
Thanks again and good luck!

**Pompeius Magnus** · December 21, 2007, 05:31 AM

Yes I am in Germany. Where are you coming from?

But I think you understood exactly what I said. The army between the 6th century (time frame of Belisar and Justinian) was totally different compared to Julians army.

I wrote also a small chapter concerning the latter army of the 6th century. Here you can find some informations about the roman troops of that time. The core of Belisarius' roman army were the Hippo Toxotai. Heavy mounted Archers. We find some old tales which are explaining us that also some Milites Comitatenses were part of Belisars africa expedition. But in this case Comitatenses means nothing else than the old greek name "Hetarioi" or Companions. They have very little or nothing to do with the good old Comitatenses of Constantin or julian or Theodosius.

The time were the cavalry became more and more important started with Galienus and his first army reforms. When Constantin the great ruled the mounted archers became more and more important. When the battle at Adrianople was lost the whole roman world saw that a super heavy cavalry in form of Clibanarii or Cataphracti became essential.

On top we find the Campaign of Belisar. His monuted troops fought the most important battles. The foot soldiers were reduced to garrison or siege duties. When Belisar made his "break out" of Rome he also decided to take only his mounted troops for this adventure. His foot soldiers were angry about his decision.

**Coni** · December 21, 2007, 07:31 AM

Can you give some examples with screenshots?

**elendir** · December 21, 2007, 10:29 PM

Thanks Pompeius Magnus,
I'll definitely concentrate on Julian age first. My main interest used to be the Sassanian Empire (I said "used" because I'm very much taken at the moment by the late roman or early byzantine era). I will give the Julian army a try at first. I 'll read again your papers. I really enjoy them (I think I said it before

). I'll check for updates.
By the way I live in Terra Incognita Australis, a place at the borders of the known world, full of one legged beasts and one eye monsters....

.

**Pompeius Magnus** · January 06, 2008, 08:57 AM

Dear Reader,

all pictures and schematics are actually gone. But right now I am not sure if the problem is with picupload. I tried to re-upload several screens without help! I was able to upload the pictures but it wasn't possible to transfer the pic-links to TWCenter.
Even my pics in my signature are lost.
So I think that the problem is more on TWCenter side.

Let us wait a little bit...

Best regards
Pompeius Magnus

**SeniorBatavianHorse** · January 06, 2008, 09:33 AM

Here's hoping it gets sorted out soon, Pompeius. This is too good a topic to get lost in the ether! Fingers crossed.

**Pompeius Magnus** · January 06, 2008, 01:19 PM

We have copies of course. So, nothing is lost.
But I suggest that all users a making backups on their own computer. The pages have only some kilobytes and are easy to handle.

EDIT:
We waited too long. Perhaps there is a error on the upload server.
I started to re-upload all pics again with another provider. So, tomorrow I will finish that.
Sorry again.

**Pompeius Magnus** · January 09, 2008, 12:45 PM

So: Finished!!
I introduced another upload system with another provider. The improvements are made esp. with my schematics.
I removed old unused texts.

**Pompeius Magnus** · January 31, 2008, 10:23 AM

Structure_maurice

Basic version

**Pompeius Magnus** · February 22, 2008, 05:11 PM

Here I offer some of my pictures from the book "the eastern romans".

These pictures were set in our Developer-Thread. This pictures a partially interesting for those who want know more about the army of Iustinian.

Battle of Milvian Bridge, Rome, 28 Oct. 312AD - Constantine the Great defeats rival Emperor Maxentius
Informations for our modders
constantin moved from Gaul to Italy with the:
British Legions: Secunda Augusta Britannica (Secundani Britanniciani)
Vigesima Valeria Victrix and Sexta Victrix Pia Fidelis
Legions from Gaul: Septima Augusta Pia Fidelis Constans Commodiana, Septima Gemina Pia Felix Secunda Italica Divitensium (secundani Italiciani) and Prima Mineria (Minervii).
Besides them alot of strong Auxilia including the famous Cornuti Seniores.
Interesting are the models of Maxentius' praetorians. By the way, these models match 100% the models of the Osprey books.
The names were simple: Cohortes Praetoriani and the Equites Singulares.
The foreign archers in the foreground and on top of the stonebridge are from africa. They are Numidians and Blemme warriors who changed their allegiance from Maxentius to Constantin.
The roman helmets of old classical Attic shape were still used in the roman army until the beginning of the 7th century, esp. by Elite soldiers.

Triumphal entry of Constantius II into Rome, 356AD

The Goth General Gainas is killed in battle by the Magister Militum Fravittas on 23. Dec 400AD
This picture shows the final battle of the imperial guard and huns against the 30.000 men of Gainas. The Column of Arcadius (402AD) records the main event of this campaign and images.
Due to that column and other findings we have a pritty good idea of the armour, shields and swords.
Their helmets are based on an actual specimen found in the Theodosian fortress of Richborough in Britain.
Concerning our mods:
Good for those people who decided to give the goths a much better equipment than for example "Slav-Units".
Acc. the findings, the column of Arcadius, and findings in the Balcan room we can absolutely be sure that at least the goths had a good equipment at the beginning of the 5th century. Pitty for the romans: This equipment was propably produced in roman fabricae due to the fact that the german magistrii militae had access to those fabricae. But life is hard ;-)

Emperor Justinian and Empress Theodora in the aftermath of the Nika riot (18.Jan. 532AD), protected by imperial guardsmen of Belisarius
The most effective fighting body remained the Excubitores, whose equipment was still strongly linked to old roman tradition. Created in 468AD by Emp. Leo I, this body was composed in Justinian's time of 300 men recruited from the Isaurians.
If I would be a modder of such a Justinian mod, I would include 2 units of them "a 150 men" (total 300).
Very very expensive, light and beautiful equipped and garissoned in the capital. But that is only my suggestion.

Roman troops defeat the Moors in North Africa, 546AD
At the beginning of the 6th century, the old troop denominations (Legiones, Auxilia, Vexilla, etc.) gradually disappeared and we find the expressions numerus, katalogos, arithmos and bandon beeing used to indicate a body of 200-500 infantrymen or cavalrymen.
The African Army of Troglitas, for instance, was divided into numeri and turmae under the corresponding commands of Tribuni and Duces.
Recruitments were made in Thrace, Illyricum, the balkans, Isauria, and super important: more and more in Armenia.
However, the elite core of troops was now the Buccellarii. Buccellarii were: Professional warriors and Foederati, new regiments of barbarian mercs under the command of imperial officers!!!. Unlike in older times the new Foederati were more embadded in the roman army. The old Foederati were reduced to symmachoi. Also true roman citizens served in such new Foederati troops!
The old Limitanei troops were also reduced to the rank of servi. Now it was legal to have 2 jobs as servi. For example it became official to have a farm and to be soldier.
The old Comitatenses were mostly reduced to garrison troops like the Limitanei in older times.
Several (very few) Comitatenses were still part of the field army. But normally it was the Milites Comitatenses who fought. The meaning was more something like Companion. "The army which is moving with the general". Nothing else. Some specialized, professional old Comitatenses can be found in Thracia and Illyria. Perhaps in Asia Minor as garrison troops. But their time was over!!!!
Even here, when Belisar fought against the Sassanids, only the minority of his troops were from the roman standing army.
If somebody make a Mod concerning that time frame "all" roman units should be replaced. Even if you have old Comitatenses units in the reality, but their optic was completely different compared to older times.
And Belisar and Narses tried to create and found so far as possible local Italian Militias. They forced the italians to defend their country because the Byzantine army was too small.
The result of these Italian Militias were not "Vegilum" or "Italian Auxiliarii" or something like that.
These new Italian units were highly skilled and very professional units like Milites numerus ariminensum (Rimini) or victricium mediolanensium and so on.
Even if greek was the common language in the east, the army still spoke "soldier latin" and at the royal court the people still spoke "fine latine"