Men's Reproductive Rights

[mongoose]

She didn't have to have sex in the first place. It's about responsibility. If both sides had equal rights abortion levels would drop because they'd actually have to think about what they are getting into.

If the woman is doing 98% of the labor, then it does make sense that she would get more rights.

Some occupations are better suited for men than women, so men tend to be favored. It's not discrimination, it's just the way the people are designed in nature (though sometimes it is just discrimination).

[Gwendylyn]

Alot of things are unfair biologically but yet we constantly make those compromises in the name of gender neutral fairness.

There's nothing neutral about the pregnancy itself.

Most of the cases it goes exactly as you say, two responsible parents who split but realize the priority is their child who they both love, that really isnt the issue here. The issue is those cases where the man does indeed get screwed thanks to lack of support by legal system for their rights.

Someone gets screwed over - either the father or the kid. I'd rather screw over the father than the kid.

A donor should never have to face that.....

Hence when I referred to sperm banks including clauses that they will cover child support if it is requested.

Im not disagreeing with that in fact I agree 110% with that but the fact is alot of times that isnt the case, you have deadbeat dads who attempt to skirt their responsibility and laws enacted to attempt to make them own up. The problem is a male has very little protection of their own when they are on the receiving end, in alot of cases the law treats the man as if he was nothing but a sperm donation.

The only time they do this is when the courts go sexist and treat the mother as the default caregiver, and shortchange the male on parenting rights. That happens WAY too often, but I think its still a different issue. Fathers who DO raise the children have rights to collect child support from the mothers too.

I still see nothing wrong that if a woman has a right to terminate a pregnancy 12 weeks into it why a male doesnt have the right to give all parental rights and responsibility to the fetus. Instead we treat pregnancy as if its something male does to a woman instead of an act between two people.

A fetus is totally different than a living, breathing child. The child has rights, the fetus doesn't. At the point when the kid isn't born yet, it's still considered a part of the mother, and therefore the father has no rights over it. Yes, the male is shortchanged in this situation because the female does have the power over whether he has to take the responsibility of being a father, even if financially. Yes it is crappy for a guy to be forced into fatherhood. In the end it's about the kid though, and the kid exists. You can't undo that birth once its done.

My one answer is to say find another solution that doesn't short-change the child. One way I can see of doing this is indeed through government payments to replace child support payments. We then run into the problem of it being economically and practically feasible to do this. Another way that limits the problem is allowing a non-biological partner sign for the parenthood rights and responsibilities, including child support if a separation occurs. I think there's a lot of resistance to this because of same-sex couples wanting to adopt their partner's child.

Look at some of the cases involving frozen embryos from a divorced couple where a male has had to fight tooth in nail in court system to attempt to block an exwife from using them. One would think a male should have the same right to determine whether they wish to become a father as a woman does to become a mother.

The major issue with blocking a woman from using frozen embryos is that women are only fertile for a certain number of years and males are fertile all their lives, so if she cannot produce any more fertile eggs than the only kid she can have is the one already frozen. For that I can find some sympathy for the woman in these cases. That doesn't mean I'd side with her if she were fighting the father for custody of the embyro.

In the end though, the embryo isn't a part of her body, and therefore they should have equal choice. This would be an example of sexism or badly designed contracts determining ownership of the embryos, or both.

[danzig]

Someone gets screwed over - either the father or the kid. I'd rather screw over the father than the kid.

Cant disagree with that, as a parent there is absolutely no way I would pick self interest over my daughter but when 'getting screwed' part can often be manipulated by a woman I think there is alot of room for improvement to lessen that but yes of course the child should always be the first priority.

The major issue with blocking a woman from using frozen embryos is that women are only fertile for a certain number of years and males are fertile all their lives, so if she cannot produce any more fertile eggs than the only kid she can have is the one already frozen. For that I can find some sympathy for the woman in these cases. That doesn't mean I'd side with her if she were fighting the father for custody of the embyro.


In the end though, the embryo isn't a part of her body, and therefore they should have equal choice. This would be an example of sexism or badly designed contracts determining ownership of the embryos, or both.

Which is part of the problem, most couples that freeze embyros rarely bother with contracts to cover the 'what if' part of it if their marriage should ever fail. A case of feelings vs practical common sense I guess, tough to be planning for the future and one of people say oh and in case we ever get divorced sign this. In the end though I think the consent of both should be basically be the standard.

I imagine technology will eventually render this a non issue.

[Gwendylyn]

Planning in case of a divorce to me is like signing a prenuptial agreement: it's like saying "I'll love you til I die, but I might change my mind."

Other than that I agree.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

The father has a right. The obvious problem is, however, that should the parents disagree then you have to provide the legal recourse so that one can decide should there be a split. Frankly I feel the woman should have the final right to decide.

This then causes the problem of child support that a father will have to pay even though it may have been his choice to pursue an abortion.

men should have the choice during the very early stages of pregnancy to opt-out of any benefit payments should hte mother decide not to abort or adopt it.

[Col. Tartleton]

The way I see it is outside of a marriage the woman is responsible for the kid and men have no rights or obligations to the child. If in a marriage the man has equal rights and obligations. A man should only be responsible for legitimate children. If she has the kid and then they get married he gains parental rights though. With artificial insemination and surrogacy going around these days there needs to be a simple elegant solution. The solution is that the male only has rights to children of women he is or has been married to.

Wu Tang is for the Children.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Okay. I tried this topic before but it went way off topic and turned into a flamewar. For the purpose of this discussion let us assume that abortion is an inherent right of women's. Don't post here saying that you disagree with abortion, it does not add to the discussion.

The main foundation of abortion is Women's Reproductive Rights. The notion that women have the right to opt out of motherhood by having an abortion.
When pro-lifers say that consenting to sex is consenting to parenthood, pro-choicers say this is not the case, that consenting to a sexual encounter does not automatically make you a parent, UNLESS you are a man.

Why do our laws protect sexual promiscuity among women, but punish it among men?

I would not be creating this thread unless I was ready to be called a sexist chauvenist pig for bringing it up, so let it begin.

You just called women whores for having sex? Are men the only ones allowed to feel sexual pleasure. It takes two to have sex.

[Phier]

While mens reproductive rights do highlight a bit of the hypocrisy in abortion rights, this thread is a tad old.