What Greek city state. . .

[removeduser_487563287433]

And so, to be born rich meant to be born gay? I guess that was the only choice if you wanted to get into the Sacred Band, for the matter.

They were picked from the citizen army which means they would have been wealthy enough to afford hoplite armour, yes.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

Epaminondas and the Sacred Band were. So this means that anyone who trying to get up in the military had to be gay, in order to fight among the elite and convince their superiors .

I can imagine how they convinced them *shrills*.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I can imagine how they convinced them *shrills*.

Convinced them to be gay? Um.... right. Not possible at all that in a citizen body of tens of thousands of men you wouldn't be able to find 150 couples?

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

Convinced them to be gay? Um.... right. Not possible at all that in a citizen body of tens of thousands of men you wouldn't be able to find 150 couples?

No, how they convinced their gay leaders that they are gay.. yuck!

[removeduser_487563287433]

No, how they convinced their gay leaders that they are gay.. yuck!

Or they were actually homosexual.

[Roman Clone]

So Greeks are to blame for gay people? Wow, after inventing medicine, architecture, tactics and philosophies their worst idea has to be gayness.

[Mighty]

You know? I want to be a Macedon. Lets see this Hephaestion Alexander thing

[Mulattothrasher]

The only "compulsory gay" state of existence, from what I have read, was the Sacred Band/Holy band of Thebes. I've never read that all Spartans, Thebans, Athenians *had* to have homo relations with their brothers in arms. The Theban Band was renown because thats what they were, gay, and they all got killed by Phillip and Alexander.
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That being said, I would want to be a Spartan graduate of the Agoge. To be feared and respected in battle, and to hone your art into the pinnacle of classical fighting perfection. I find this rather inspiring and admirable. A society dedicated to kicking butt

[Lord Rahl]

Well not spartan ... u know i'd have 2 have homo-sexual relations with my fellow soldiers so maybe Thebian or Athenian or maybe some Priest in delphi with all those fine priestesses

Prince

Uh...the Thebans had the Sacred Band...

Can we stay away from all of the gay talk anyway?

It's hard for my to decide who I'd want to be. The city states changed a lot over time and so I'd want to be a Spartan one time and then Athenian another. I think I'd like to be Athenian during the Persian Wars.

[hellheaven1987]

The only "compulsory gay" state of existence, from what I have read, was the Sacred Band/Holy band of Thebes. I've never read that all Spartans, Thebans, Athenians *had* to have homo relations with their brothers in arms. The Theban Band was renown because thats what they were, gay, and they all got killed by Phillip and Alexander.

Ok, I guess most people misunderstood Greek's homosexual concept. First, most Greeks never openly proclaimed they were homosexual, because physical homosexual was not very acceptable in traditional view. Most Greek works describe homosexual as more close friendship between men and men, and rarely mention the physical contact of this type of friendship. In general view, the "physical homosexual" was strongly disencouraged, but not the close friendship, or "mental homosexual".

Next, many young Greeks had elder "mentor" as their life teacher, and many of them actually developed into homosexual. I am not sure other cities but Sparta was the best example about this type of mentor system.

Theban Sacred Band was not destroyed because they were homosexual. In fact, I remember Alexander actually set up a memorial for them.

[Roman Clone]

I am really starting to die of laughter!

[Phoebus]

Ok, I guess most people misunderstood Greek's homosexual concept. First, most Greeks never openly proclaimed they were homosexual, because physical homosexual was not very acceptable in traditional view. Most Greek works describe homosexual as more close friendship between men and men, and rarely mention the physical contact of this type of friendship. In general view, the "physical homosexual" was strongly disencouraged, but not the close friendship, or "mental homosexual".

Next, many young Greeks had elder "mentor" as their life teacher, and many of them actually developed into homosexual.

Who knows? Aeschines' speeches refer to legislation intended to make it rather hard for older men to court teenagers. We may never know exactly how prevalent Socrates' tastes were, but we can comfortably assume that a majority of the voting male citizens likely weren't too keen on this sort of training.

I am not sure other cities but Sparta was the best example about this type of mentor system.

Sparta/Lacedaemon was not a very good example. Their laws specifically cited pederastic relationships as akin to parents lying with their children. Sanctions and penalties were held against bachelors. Festivals included parades, songs, and dances of (often nude) maidens meant to entice the young men.

Theban Sacred Band was not destroyed because they were homosexual. In fact, I remember Alexander actually set up a memorial for them.

Phillip II actually stated that no one should think they did anything shameful. I can't remember if he set up a monument for them, though.

[hellheaven1987]

Who knows? Aeschines' speeches refer to legislation intended to make it rather hard for older men to court teenagers. We may never know exactly how prevalent Socrates' tastes were, but we can comfortably assume that a majority of the voting male citizens likely weren't too keen on this sort of training.

Good point, especially most Greek works describe this type of relationship in more mental way. Anyway, I did remember some Greek scholars suggest young Greeks should reject any sexual appeal from their elders...

Sparta/Lacedaemon was not a very good example. Their laws specifically cited pederastic relationships as akin to parents lying with their children. Sanctions and penalties were held against bachelors. Festivals included parades, songs, and dances of (often nude) maidens meant to entice the young men.

So, what is the best example?? Just ask for interest.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

I'd be some athenian philospher and scholar, Live in a great culture, dedicate my life to the knowledge, go to war once or twice if im required, Not a bad life.

[hellheaven1987]

I'd be some athenian philospher and scholar, Live in a great culture, dedicate my life to the knowledge, go to war once or twice if im required, Not a bad life.

Lol, are you talking about Socrate??

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

Lol, are you talking about Socrate??

It would be awesome, Chill in athens for a bit, go into future and hangouth with bill,ted, gengish khan, abe lincoln and the rest. All in all a good existence.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Ok, I guess most people misunderstood Greek's homosexual concept. First, most Greeks never openly proclaimed they were homosexual, because physical homosexual was not very acceptable in traditional view. Most Greek works describe homosexual as more close friendship between men and men, and rarely mention the physical contact of this type of friendship. In general view, the "physical homosexual" was strongly disencouraged, but not the close friendship, or "mental homosexual".

Next, many young Greeks had elder "mentor" as their life teacher, and many of them actually developed into homosexual. I am not sure other cities but Sparta was the best example about this type of mentor system.

Theban Sacred Band was not destroyed because they were homosexual. In fact, I remember Alexander actually set up a memorial for them.

In Sparta Lycurgus himself encouraged mentors towards younger men but strongly forbid any relationship between them.

[The Last Spartan]

Well not spartan ... u know i'd have 2 have homo-sexual relations with my fellow soldiers
Prince

This is a common misconception. In fact in Sparta homosexual relationships of any kind were considered very disgraceful.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

The only "compulsory gay" state of existence, from what I have read, was the Sacred Band/Holy band of Thebes. I've never read that all Spartans, Thebans, Athenians *had* to have homo relations with their brothers in arms. The Theban Band was renown because thats what they were, gay, and they all got killed by Phillip and Alexander.

I'm pretty sure that the gay part only was for the army, or at least the elite part of it. I don't think the whole state was gay, I mean it wouldn't exist if it was...

That being said, I would want to be a Spartan graduate of the Agoge. To be feared and respected in battle, and to hone your art into the pinnacle of classical fighting perfection. I find this rather inspiring and admirable. A society dedicated to kicking butt

Agreed 100 % .

[removeduser_487563287433]

My God, he actually thinks that they became homosexual in order to join the Sacred Band.