Rome versus Carthage (10,000 denarii)

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Friends, Romans, Carthagenians...lend me your ears!

This is geared more towards Multiplayer, but people with a Single Player preference could answer this too:

Battle Conditions
- denarii level: 10,000
- No Rules
- flat map with minimal or no tree cover

If Rome and Carthage fought, who would have the advantage? Or is the contest equal for both factions (assuming that both players are equally experienced)?

ROME vs CARTHAGE


Here are the unit selections for both factions:

ROME (Scipii)


CARTHAGE


What are everyone's thoughts on this matchup?

[bomberboy]

Romes better if properly led.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Rome, especially if there's a No Elephants rule.

[bomberboy]

Yeah they would win if there was a no elephants rule but then again some people have defeated elephants as the romans.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Oops, I should've specified: no rules! (I'll throw that in really quick)

[Hader]

In terms of RTW gameplay, Rome has a good advantage, but in terms of historical, conventional warfare (where noone could spam units or anything stupid), then it is fairly equal.

[Feliks]

Rome, if you ask me solid infantry is much more valuable than panicky elephants.

[Colossus]

Rome, because they have better missile units (archers vs slingers, balerics ans aux r too expensive for 10k)

[LeonidasOfSparta]

I think Carthage is better. I'm playng them now and I conquered Romans.

Leonidas

PS: I know this is 10k but anyway I'm for Carthago

[Jimexander the Mighty]

Carthage is better. I can defeat a roman any day with carthage because of its good mix of cavalry, elephants, and most importantly, the sacred band.

[guyyug]

I think they're about equal, I played a game with 10k and no rules and playing on grassy flatlands, I won just, so I think they were about equal.

This was 3 days ago I think and I was carthage.

[Whiskeyjack]

MP:Rome without question.
SP:Its more a matter of human>ai regardless of the unit rosters.

[Kamos]

I must say its actually pretty equal, of course if you want accuracy with these rosters(or as close as you can get) Carthage because Pre Marian units just can't cut it.

[Lord Romanus III]

Offensive Carthage is much better.

Cordially, Lord Romanus III

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Offensive Carthage is much better.

Cordially, Lord Romanus III

Tell me where Carthage is better, except for Elephants? Urban Cohorts are more flexible than Sacred Band, and might win them even from the front. A thin Roman line might even be able spread itself and partially flank the carthaginian phalanx, while their flanks are covered by auxilia spearmen and heavy cavalry. Sacred Band cavalry can't beat Spearmen and will have a hard time fighting Legionary Cavalry.

Elephants might be in, but the legionary pila and a couple of archers or skirmishers can even turn them against you. Plus they disorganize your lines, should they march or rout through them.

Edit -Just did an SP battle with Carthage vs. Rome, VH difficulty and 10000 denarii per team. Heroic Victory for me. But, I had superior cavalry (much of the Roman money was used to buy Urban Cohorts, the rest I just threw for roman archers) and it's the AI. Needless to say half of my line almost went down because of the Urbans, but I managed to secure victory through flanking. And because their general charged right into my spear line... Something I wouldn't expect in MP.

That doesn't change my mind: a skillful player can still win with Rome, by buying more cavalry and heavy infantry, and using them better than the AI.

[Roman Clone]

Rome All the way:

[Roshak]

Carthage for several reasons:

1: Sacredband their stats equivalent to that of Praetorian cohorts.

2. An elephant even a non-armored one can do quite bit of damage

3. The player is imploying rush tactics.

That's assuming the player knows how to use elephants and how to use Carthage.

[micromegas]

Now this is a topic dear to my heart since Carthage is my personal favorite. But unfortunately I don't have enough posts to be able to vote yet. But my vote would have to be for Rome based purely on the fact you that you don't have to have as much skill with Rome to win this matchup.

The difficulty with Carthage is that you're Sacred Band will lose to their Urban one-on-one most of the time (Urban have +2 attack and +1 defense plus the pila) and your Sacred Band Cavalry will also lose to the Praetorian Cav in a one-on-one match. Furthermore you don't have any archers so you are pretty much forced to attack.

However, there are two things that Carthage has going for it:
1.) Price - the SB costs 150 denarii less than the urbans and this allows you to also bring along a couple of extra units of Poeni infantry to use as a second line. Same goes for the the SB cav, they cost less than the Praetorian Cav so you can outnumber them if you choose to do so.
2.) Elephants - I have only played as Carthage against Rome twice in MP that I can remember, once as part of a team and once in 1v1. Both times I was able to route their army with the proper use of elephants. I have the games saved if anyone cares to have a look and will tell me how to upload it.

So I think Rome has the advantage in this battle because a player would need less skill to win with Rome than with Carthage. But a well used and well chosen Carthaginian army can pretty much beat any faction in my opinion. They do, however have problems against chariots that I haven't quite figured out how to overcome.

One last thought, I think half of the MP player battle comes down to faction and unit choice.

[Octavium]

Personally, I think at 10K Carthage just pips it. If we assume both generals are good, then I think the Romans would have a hard time not losing the flanks whilst holding the centre. Sacred Band Cavalry is outstanding, as are elephants if well used. Rome does have good troops, but I suspect a good Carthage player could neutralise the Roman Archers long enough to bring the elephants in, then the elephants could either rout a flank, the Roman rear or centre.

[][Xyphos][ - Lee]

Rome is the better of the two, Carthage has always got a disadvantage of not having archers, also i have never had any faith in sacred band cav they always seem to rout really easily and IMO are no match for praetorian cav. They may have elephants but they are easy to handle if you keep a fresh unit of archers ready for when they send them in.