How Mexican Was the Southwest?

[Icefrisco]

I always here people say "The Southwest was Mexican so they arent really stealing our land." Well, they might not be stealing our land but the Southwest was never Mexican. It was Spanish for years and in the north there were Russians. Then in a 20 year period Mexico ruled it. However, since the northern part (modern California) was largely American, it was seperated from Baja California. So really, the southwest wasnt Mexican. And if the southwest wasnt Mexican then all this bs about Mexicans being natives to the southwest isnt true.....

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I doubt it was intentional, sometimes you might click send, and it doesn't send it. So he did it again, and again, and again.

Mexicans aren't natives to the southwest. I'm guessing the only one with that honest claim are the Navajo, Apache, and other Native American tribes that inhabited the land before Europeans came over.

[Luftwaffels]

It doesn't matter if they were natives. We won the war, we even paid for the land when we could have just taken it. I don't see Native Americans badgering the Mexicans for Mexico back, nor do I see the Woolly Mammoth complaining to the Native Americans for invading his turf.

[Sidmen]

Luftwaffels, can I direct you to the Woolly Mammoth vs. American Indian Site.

[jankren]

Southwest America is as American as Eastern Russia to Russia.

[Vladimir Lenin]

I always here people say "The Southwest was Mexican so they arent really stealing our land." Well, they might not be stealing our land but the Southwest was never Mexican. It was Spanish for years and in the north there were Russians. Then in a 20 year period Mexico ruled it. However, since the northern part (modern California) was largely American, it was seperated from Baja California. So really, the southwest wasnt Mexican. And if the southwest wasnt Mexican then all this bs about Mexicans being natives to the southwest isnt true.....

So in 1800's we could'nt really claim we owned America, and that England had more claim to it?

Mexico did own that land, it won it from Spain just as we won land from England.

It's this kind of logic......

[Sidmen]

And by that same logic we won it from Mexico... So yeah, Mexico has just as much claim to that land as Spain does.

Also, didn't a legal treaty between mexico and the US say that the mexican people would give up all rights to that land?

[Ahiga]

[Mangalore]

I always here people say "The Southwest was Mexican so they arent really stealing our land." Well, they might not be stealing our land but the Southwest was never Mexican. It was Spanish for years and in the north there were Russians. Then in a 20 year period Mexico ruled it. However, since the northern part (modern California) was largely American, it was seperated from Baja California. So really, the southwest wasnt Mexican. And if the southwest wasnt Mexican then all this bs about Mexicans being natives to the southwest isnt true.....

Mexico was a Spanish successor state so it makes more sense for Spanish lands to be considered Mexican rather than American aka Anglo Saxon.

Though the whole concept of native is kind of funny for any American nation. You/We (don't want to take the blame away from the European colonial powers) killed, starved and enslaved the natives.

[The Knight 2100]

Originally the south-west belonged to Spain during colonial times. The Mexicans, or Spanish settlers depending on how you look at it, lived there for many years until Mexican independence. At this point the land belonged to Mexico. This land was sparsely populated however and the number of Mexicans who actually lived in the south-west was relatively small. Because the south-west had a small population and was thinly settled, the Mexican government invited foreigners (Americans) to settle in the south-west.

The American immigrants soon became the majority in certain areas (Texas, California too I think). There was the Texan War of independence, which Texas won, and soon Texas became a state of the United States. There were tensions between the United States and Mexico because of this over where the border was, one thing led to another and the US and Mexico went to war. The US won the war, and there was the treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo where the United States purchased the South-West from Mexico and the land became part of the United States. A number of years after the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo there was the Gadsen Purchase where the United States bought the southern portion of Arizona from Mexico. After the US bought the south-west from Mexico, more and more American settlers moved into the area, especially into California due to the gold rush of 1849. Some of the original Mexican population moved to Mexico after the war, but from what I have read, most stayed and were actually quite happy to live in the United States because of its economic prosperity, freedoms and political stability. To this day, the descendants of this original Mexican population still live in the south-west. Also, the south-west has experienced immigration from Mexico since the end of the war.

So ultimately, the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo not only ceded the land to the United States, but the United States bought the land from Mexico. Legally, the United States is the owner of the South-West. To say that the land belongs to Mexico is like saying that Turkey belongs to Greece because it was once part of the Byzantine Empire and many Greek people lived there. I think that it is better to decide that land belongs to one country or another based on legal agreements such as treaties, rather than ethnic/linguistic/historical claims.

[Kiljan Arslan]

We won the war and at the end actually bought the land from them. Its ours if they want to become citizens here, and live in what was once mexicos territory so be it, however they better not be claiming they have a right to it.

[Caelius]

Though the whole concept of native is kind of funny for any American nation. You/We (don't want to take the blame away from the European colonial powers) killed, starved and enslaved the natives.

There's no such thing as a "native" in the New World. We're all immigrants here.

[-Conan the Barbarian-]

There's no such thing as a "native" in the New World. We're all immigrants here.

Not really. We are not all immigrants here. The majority of Americans were born in America Many non American Indian Americans have ancestors that go as far back as the 1600's or even earlier It's just some leftists wanting Americans and more specifically white Americans to not be able to claim themselves to be native so that they have no ties to the land or any nationalistic/ nativist feelings to the country they created.

Hell by your logic there is no such thing as native lands. No European is native to Europe as their ancestors came from other areas. Even Africa isn't the native land as Humanity's ancestors ultimately came from somewhere else.

[Kiljan Arslan]

Please change that to some leftists because guess what I got no problem with us stealing the Native Americans lands. Although i do feel assimilation would have been a better Idea.

[Ramashan]

There's no such thing as a "native" in the New World. We're all immigrants here.

This brings up th statute of nativity limitation as Conan mentioned. What's considered native? 100 years, 400 years, 500 years, 1000 years?

Most of those coming to the states now from Mexico do not have any native right to it. Although many who were 'naitive' to the land were rounded up and shipped away in blind racist sweeps in the 50's, that was then and those involved have long since returned or resettled.

Mexicans today have as much right to the Southwest as Spain has to Florida. Its just an excuse to justify coming to the states other then the true reason, better jobs and their own country is broken and no ones willing to really do anything about it.

That's how I see it anyway.

[Lord Rahl]

I hate all of this talk about the US stealing Mexican land and the Mexicans taking back their land. First of all, we got our land by winning it. We didn't steal it. And second, the land was Native American before the Spanish came, so Americans and Mexicans are on stolen Native American land. It's like me saying that Britain is rightfully Italy's because the Romans used to have the land!

[The Knight 2100]

Weren't there more posts in this thread yesterday?

[Kiljan Arslan]

I hate all of this talk about the US stealing Mexican land and the Mexicans taking back their land. First of all, we got our land by winning it. We didn't steal it. And second, the land was Native American before the Spanish came, so Americans and Mexicans are on stolen Native American land. It's like me saying that Britain is rightfully Italy's because the Romans used to have the land!

You forgot that even though we won the war we still payed them for it. (allbeit for much less then what it was worth?)

[Arceus]

mexicans say US stole their land, because many mexican has native american blood in them, so they believe that the lands is theirs, even though all mexican speak spanish,

[Kretchfoop]

mexicans say US stole their land, because many mexican has native american blood in them, so they believe that the lands is theirs, even though all mexican speak spanish,

It's true that most Mexicans have much more native blood than spanish blood in them. But they come from different stock than the former and current Native Americans in the Southwest. That claim realy doesn't hold up well at all.