[Divus - Passed 9:2] Archer

[imb39]

After speaking to Archer he has agreed to be put forward for this honorary rank.

Now we all know Archer. We all know that he presided over one of the most traumatic periods in the sites history - yet it was also a period of growth.

Now Archer will invoke some shivering from some of you, but I ask you to put any of those feelings aside and consider the fact that he put in a ton of work into the site, as much as anyone I'd argue. Now it would be very simple and easy to dismiss all of his achievements and solely focus on his issues but I genuinely believe he did try and act for the best of the site, as he saw it.

It must also be said that Ogre confirmed that Archer did advise against H&G being given admin access to the site. Tragic.

[the Black Prince]

you missed april fools mate...

[imb39]

Care to explain?

[the Black Prince]

well, you can't possibly be serious...






can you?

[gigagaia]

two tonnes of work, to be precise. And a heck of a lot more work after that. Archer may not be everyone's favourite bear, but he certainly put an amount of work into TWC that few could even come close to half-matching.

[imb39]

well, you can't possibly be serious...






can you?

err.... Yes... I wouldn't have started the thread, otherwise. I wouldn't have spent time talking to Archer about it, either...

[the Black Prince]

well.... to put it bluntly, while not denying his hard work (which one would expect of all admin anyway) to give something this rank who did all that archer did in terms of damaging and destroying TWC devalues totally the award given to those people who truely made outstanding contributions and deserve this award, such as Lusted and Siblesz.

But since we're going down this line... point me to specific achievements. this is the part where the proof is offered, from the staff forum if necessary, and lets face it, everything Archer has done or claimed to have done or indeed claimed not to have done is wrapped in about 6 layers of secrecy and a cloak of mystery.

All i can say for sure is that Archer put a lot of time and effort into the site. thats not enough to go on, you could give Divus to every admin for that.

[imb39]

Well, I'll confine myself to the aspect of damaging the site...

I'll be blunt and say what many people think about you and the deletion of the site. Many people do blame you for that, yet they got over it and supported you. Archer never deleted the site, it must be said.

Secondly, Spartan also, I beleive, had a checkered history when it came to the site (or was it Sulla (or both...)). Anyway, people got over it as it was recognised that they still had a tremendous impact on the site.

Now, onto Archer. Well, it is no secret that he did not value the curia particularly, especially towards the end. So what? It is one view of many and he is most certainly not the only one to hold this view and he closed it down only in times when he considered that it being opened was causing more harm to the site than if it were closed. That is for him to make. Despite it all, I genuinely believe he was acting in what he thought was the ultimate best interests of the site.

As to his achievements, I think, for much of last year the site was very stable. he ushered in the Decumvirate and implemented those changes. He may not have treated the Curia with a huge amount of respect at times (I can understand why, btw) but to him (and many others) the Curia is an irrelevance. Despite this, he still, I believe, defended it when his ON overlords were involving themselves within TWC.

[scottishranger]

I support Archer for Divus, his work as an admin was great, he had a sense of humor and I had a lot of respect for him(I still do). I believe he deserves the rank of Divus.

I do not really see how he damaged and destroyed the sites value(s).

[imb39]

Shall round two commence?

[Ragabash]

I want to point out that we should evaluate Archer'a achievements for his own, and not to turn this nomination discussion to a debate about previous Divii, or their actions compared to Archer's.

If you feel that someone should not wear the award, this is not the right place for that discussion, create Curial request for that but please do not use that as a defence for Archer's actions in the past and right to claim this reward.

[Perikles]

See, you don't get rid me that easily!

This was divine retribution for cutting me off mid post yesterday!

Summary of post: Archer destabilised the site, he may have wanted to help but his actions told a different story, he does not deserve this award. End.

[Tom Paine]

Thanks Rag

a) This requires a week of discussion before it may be moved to the vote. Thus, no, you don't move to stage two.
b) I am requesting that this be left open an additional two days to make up for the two lost days, when a lot with relevance was said.

[Belisarius]

Did anyone read my long ass post.

Damn it I should just bring out all the MSN logs and prove Archer always had the best interests of the site in mind.

[Ragabash]

Belisarius.

Archer might have had best interests of the site in mind, but his actions had other impact. If we want to give this reward for administration who always wanted best for the site, I guess its pretty much obvious we could make the whole award retirement medal like Moderator's Mace in that case.

[Publius]

To be fair Rag (and this was posted elsewhere so I believe it's ok to say now...) much of Archer's actions during the ON crisis were made to encourage chaos, disorder, etc.

Why?

So that Ogre would feel overwhelmed and be more likely to part with a website that at the time, was giving him only trouble. To my eyes, the only person who did more to help with the ON-Imb transition was Imb himself.

So let us not take his actions on purely face value.

[Ragabash]

Archer created chaos to get the site for himself, not for the community.

[Publius]

How? I'm all ears, because I talked with him while he was doing it and can confirm my above post is true, which would seem to contradict the idea he did this for himself.

If he had bought the site after all of that he would simply be HG v2.0 - he was not exactly well liked after doing it, and put his personal reputation in the garbage can to make sure it worked.

You also know of course that ON wanted Archer back first but when he refused they gave it to HG (not something he thought would ever happen mind, the point is he refused to take back that authority here, further weakening the case that he was some kind of power monger).

Archer made his fair share of mistakes its true (as have plenty of other Divus, as imb kindly pointed out), but I don't think his contributions not only in this one instance but across two years of service as site Imperator can be denied.

[Ragabash]

I remember to read from somewhere that he wanted to get the site but imb39 offer kind of messed that around.

I could be all wrong, but I'll take a look if I can find that post somewhere.

EDIT: I think I found the post:

I was also talking to professor420, at the time (or sometime just before the january deal) to liberate TWC from the ogresnet. I had something different in my mind how to carry it out, but the HG deal was a perfect opportunity to force Ogre to sell the site. Selling it to you wasn't really in the plan and your offer to him to buy it was surprising. I think I even noted to the Prof, that this isn't what we hoped for, but maybe a bit better than having it remained in Ogre's hands. It partially was due to the dissapointment of how things were running, and partially because the place headed nowhere with a non active owner

Original Thread: Monsters Incorporated

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Archer created chaos to get the site for himself, not for the community.

And you know this because you had a constant dialog with him during the entire incident didn't you? I was in contact with him during the latest occurrence in January and in October. Was he trying to ge the site for himself? I imagine if that were the case then we would be hailing him as the owner not Ian. Archer may not be the most popular person here, but then again, some who already hold the rank of Divus also have clouded pasts.