Get an abortion, go to jail...but for how long?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

How? Explain me! It seems nothing like empty and irrelevant statements anyway. Who would want a "hybrid", in the first place? And second, it still has human traits. Third, even if it doesn't have any human traits anymore, then that still doesn't legitimize Abortion. The same analogy could be aplied to lions and other animals with sexual reproduction, too.

[removeduser_487563287433]

How? Explain me! It seems nothing like empty and irrelevant statements anyway. Who would want a "hybrid", in the first place? And second, it still has human traits. Third, even if it doesn't have any human traits anymore, then that still doesn't legitimize Abortion. The same analogy could be aplied to lions and other animals with sexual reproduction, too.

You can quite easily implant a fetus in a woman. Whatever you please, really. We do it with human fetuses all the time to aid otherwise infertile women. Like I say, for the third time now, I am just trying to get you to say what you consider a human being because so far your definitions have been clearly flawed.

[Poisoner]

You can quite easily implant a fetus in a woman. Whatever you please, really. We do it with human fetuses all the time to aid otherwise infertile women. Like I say, for the third time now, I am just trying to get you to say what you consider a human being because so far your definitions have been clearly flawed.

Third times the charm.

Spit it out already!

[Gary88]

a foetus is simply the prenatal post embryonic stage in a vivaparous (sp) animal, for a long time neither a foetus and certainly not an embryo have any of the distinctions of being a mammal let alone a homo sapien sapien (perhaps not even members of Chordata). one of the most common things we humans use to distinguish ourselves from other animals (as we so arogantly do) is a high level of sentience that we believe we have over and above other animals yet the first signs (and i mean the first) of brain activity only occur after 12 weeks and continual brain activity not until 30 weeks.

true a foetus is a potential human but then paint is a potential masterpiece but i wouldnt look at paint and claim it to be the mona lisa, even the paint used to paint the mona lisa wasnt the mona lisa until after it had been painted.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

You can quite easily implant a fetus in a woman. Whatever you please, really. We do it with human fetuses all the time to aid otherwise infertile women. Like I say, for the third time now, I am just trying to get you to say what you consider a human being because so far your definitions have been clearly flawed.

Human foetuses are human, and that's it.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Human foetuses are human, and that's it.

But not zygotes?

[Gary88]

Human foetuses are human, and that's it.

please read my post

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

But not zygotes?

OK, where are you trying to lead this? Last time in Basic Biology Class, prof. said and it's the same thing all over the world that without a Zygote, there can't be a foetus.

But yeah, you don't have a point, don't you?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

a foetus is simply the prenatal post embryonic stage in a vivaparous (sp) animal, for a long time neither a foetus and certainly not an embryo have any of the distinctions of being a mammal let alone a homo sapien sapien (perhaps not even members of Chordata). one of the most common things we humans use to distinguish ourselves from other animals (as we so arogantly do) is a high level of sentience that we believe we have over and above other animals yet the first signs (and i mean the first) of brain activity only occur after 12 weeks and continual brain activity not until 30 weeks.

true a foetus is a potential human but then paint is a potential masterpiece but i wouldnt look at paint and claim it to be the mona lisa, even the paint used to paint the mona lisa wasnt the mona lisa until after it had been painted.

Even if it doesn't resembles, it will resemble. No excuse for killing it, as I've already said.

[removeduser_487563287433]

OK, where are you trying to lead this? Last time in Basic Biology Class, prof. said and it's the same thing all over the world that without a Zygote, there can't be a foetus.

But yeah, you don't have a point, don't you?

Of course. Life doesn't begin at conception; it begins at a certain point in the pregnancy where the fetus has developed to gain sentience and consciousness. Before then it is a mass of cells and no more a living being than a scraping of skin from your knee.

The very idea that the potential to become a human life equals a human life would make every person who has :wub:d or had a wet dream a mass murderer, a Stalin or a Hitler several billion times over.

[Gary88]

i quite clearly made the point that a foetus doesnt become a human under any definition of a homo sapien sapien biologically or under human ethics (the animal/human idea) until months into pregnancy

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

i quite clearly made the point that a foetus doesnt become a human under any definition of a homo sapien sapien biologically or under human ethics (the animal/human idea) until months into pregnancy

And so? A child doesn't have any clear sign of sexuality 'till puberty, except for the sexual organs. Does that mean they don't have gender? Even if it doesn't resembles, it is programmed to resemble and so it will.

[Gary88]

And so? A child doesn't have any clear sign of sexuality 'till puberty, except for the sexual organs. Does that mean they don't have gender? Even if it doesn't resembles, it is programmed to resemble and so it will.

sexuality is about sexual preference whereas gender is simply put, the difference between male and females. interestingly all foetuses begin without gender this comes abit later (somewhat simplified to make a point)

[removeduser_487563287433]

And so? A child doesn't have any clear sign of sexuality 'till puberty, except for the sexual organs. Does that mean they don't have gender? Even if it doesn't resembles, it is programmed to resemble and so it will.

This is wrong in so many ways. Firstly toddlers :wub:. Secondly sexuality does not determine gender.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Of course. Life doesn't begin at conception; it begins at a certain point in the pregnancy where the fetus has developed to gain sentience and consciousness. Before then it is a mass of cells and no more a living being than a scraping of skin from your knee.

The very idea that the potential to become a human life equals a human life would make every person who has :wub:d or had a wet dream a mass murderer, a Stalin or a Hitler several billion times over.

Ah, ok! I give up. Although what most pro-Abortionists don't know is that it's difficult for a mother to detect pregnancy 'till it's in advanced state, and so they abort when the foetus has a basic neural and circulatory systems, and thus by all definitions (even by some abortionist ones), it's a "human".

But then, I question the social effects of Abortion: apart from the fact that many mothers only know they're pregnant when it's "too late", there is the fact that legalised abortions are completely unecessary given the fact that there are several contraceptive methods available. Lusted pointed that there's a 3% chance that condoms will fail, reduce to only 1% with spermicide. I wonder, this 1% is enough to fill the world, isn't it ? The paranoid woman can always take pills, so the chance is reduced effectively to 0%.

In fact, not using contraceptives and then trying an Abortion is lack of personal responsability.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Ah, ok! I give up. Although what most pro-Abortionists don't know is that it's difficult for a mother to detect pregnancy 'till it's in advanced state, and so they abort when the foetus has a basic neural and circulatory systems, and thus by all definitions (even by some abortionist ones), it's a "human".

But then, I question the social effects of Abortion: apart from the fact that many mothers only know they're pregnant when it's "too late", there is the fact that legalised abortions are completely unecessary given the fact that there are several contraceptive methods available. Lusted pointed that there's a 3% chance that condoms will fail, reduce to only 1% with spermicide. I wonder, this 1% is enough to fill the world, isn't it ? The paranoid woman can always take pills, so the chance is reduced effectively to 0%.

In fact, not using contraceptives and then trying an Abortion is lack of personal responsability.

Clearly you have not experienced a pregnant woman; I promise you it is likely they will discover they are pregnant before it reaches an 'advanced state.'

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Clearly you have not experienced a pregnant woman; I promise you it is likely they will discover they are pregnant before it reaches an 'advanced state.'

Yes, there is a chance. But should we give reward for a uniformed woman, allowing her to abort when the fetus is in an advanced state? No.

[Gary88]

Ah, ok! I give up. Although what most pro-Abortionists don't know is that it's difficult for a mother to detect pregnancy 'till it's in advanced state, and so they abort when the foetus has a basic neural and circulatory systems, and thus by all definitions (even by some abortionist ones), it's a "human".

But then, I question the social effects of Abortion: apart from the fact that many mothers only know they're pregnant when it's "too late", there is the fact that legalised abortions are completely unecessary given the fact that there are several contraceptive methods available. Lusted pointed that there's a 3% chance that condoms will fail, reduce to only 1% with spermicide. I wonder, this 1% is enough to fill the world, isn't it ? The paranoid woman can always take pills, so the chance is reduced effectively to 0%.

In fact, not using contraceptives and then trying an Abortion is lack of personal responsability.

many problems here, women can often discover pregnancy when they miss a period so within one month of conception, EEG brain activity doesnt begin for 3 months. the pill is only 98% effective even though the pill and condom combined would lower chances yet further just think how much sex there is in the world. also no one is claiming that people dont wear protection then get abortions or that such action is responsible (though it does happen but i find it highly irresponsible) we cannot judge all abortions on the acts of mindless idiots

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yes, there is a chance. But should we give reward for a uniformed woman, allowing her to abort when the fetus is in an advanced state? No.

We don't.

[lord o kelly]

Reasons for rape: in cases of rape or incest, 0.3%; in cases of risk to maternal health or life, 1%; and in cases of fetal abnormality, 0.5%. About 98% of abortions in the United States are elective, including socio-economic reasons or for birth control. This includes about 25% for primarily economic reasons.

Dunno if anyone posted this before. but I found this very interesting