Youtube video on Abortion and article

[Talbaz]

Article

Video in Question

Seroius video

don't this people think it through from point a to b to c

thought i share this and start a discussion

[Erik]

LOL, that's a great video.

And to quote one of the comments:

God's children sure are stupid.

Amen.

But I'm wondering:
What is the punishment for illegal abortions in Western counties?

[Talbaz]

seroiusly tho someone with a video cam tap yourself asking this question and upload it to the republican youtube debate

[Shaun]

From now on, in abortion debates, I am just going to link this site. The same arguments are rehashed by the 'pro-lifers' again and again... they never seem to understand that a fetus is not a human, it has no rights as its unborn, hence why it cannot be murdered. If it is unwanted, it is a parasite - and a mother has every right to get rid of a parasite! In fact, getting rid of a parasite is an inalienable right, anyone who tries to take this away is severly hampering on your freedom.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

I wonder if i can still do Quadratic equations :hmmm:

Abortion should be Legal in the first place. I dont think its right, but Pro-Lifers project thier beliefs onto others. Something which everyone should have problems with.

[Miraj]

Seriously stupid. Such is the price religiousity.

[kev-o]

It should be legal, but highly regulated. Abortions should only be performed in the first trimester and no later.

[Black Hawk]

If there where no abortion you'd be finding a lot more dumpster babies.

[wandervogel]

Hmmm. Interesting video; but the answer is clear. As abortion is the willful termination of a human life, those who commit it should be charged with murder (after all, those who kill pregnant women are charged with two counts of murder, not one). Those who aid them in the process should be charged as accessories to murder.

[Erik]

It should be legal, but highly regulated. Abortions should only be performed in the first trimester and no later.

If still leaves the question: what will you do with the women who have (illegal) late abortions?
Throw them in jail?

And, if I may follow up: what will become of the children who get born only because their mother feared a lengthy jail sentence?

Calling for a ban is easy, but the real debate start when you think about the real-world consequences of that ban.

(after all, those who kill pregnant women are charged with two counts of murder, not one).

Really? - In America I assume.

Does it matter how far her pregnancy is?
What if the murderer doesn't know and can't see she's pregnant, is it still double murder?

[wandervogel]

If still leaves the question: what will you do with the women who have (illegal) late abortions?
Throw them in jail?

Why not? What does it matter if someone commits murder after a few days or after several months?

[Tucker Dan]

First off, the article is clearly written by a pro-abortion writer, so I'll spend most time discussing the video, of which the article is simply a liberal retelling of. But the video is good, I wonder, how many people he interviewed had a more ready answer that did not fit the premise of no one thought about punishment and was cut. As someone who is anti-abortion I will say that I have discussed this with people who also oppose abortion, if he really wanted an answer to the question, it would not be hard to call any one of the many anti-abortion groups and they would have commented. With those I have spoken with, some have never thought about punishment, they say thats not the issue at hand, they say we'll cross that bridge when we come to it and now, we just want to ban this practice.

Personally, I would not call the woman a "murderer" those are the doctors who actually end the life. The mother is the person who hires that service. As with illegal immigration, it is perhaps a better way of going at it if you target the industry benefiting from having it acceptable, if not actually legal, in the case of immigration. Banning abortion and therefore making it illegal to perform would help. Any doctor performing the procedure would face a revocation of their license. Whereas the woman would face a fine or several months in jail. Perhaps we could use the standard that is used when, in the commission of a crime, someone kills a womans unborn child. Although not as severe. For the people in the anti-abortion movement, the more sympathetic of all those involved, besides the innocent child of course, is the mother. On the video this came across, they don't have an animosity towards the mother, some do but not all, with many hoping that the mother comes around to see the horror of her actions, as did Norm McCorvey, Roe of Roe vs. Wade. We are more concerned about saving the life of a child rather than than punishing the mother. I love though, all the comments on the YouTube page, these people disagree with me, i will call them stupid and insult their intelligence instead of talking about anything of substance.

In the article the writer asks about this reluctance to punish the mother, "Is the message that women are not to be held responsible for their actions?" It would appear the pro-abortion movement is now adopting, no pun intended, the rhetoric of the anti-abortion movement because that sentence is something I have been saying for ever.

[kev-o]

@ Erik

This is the same question I asked in my religion class, and everyone was stumped. It shouldn't be illegal, since the woman has already so much emotional stress already to deal with and doesn't need a prison sentence.

But if they have late abortions, all I can say is give them a large fine of some sort, something along the lines like a DWI.

Make it a penalty that will make women think twice about doing.

[Dismounted H@Xx0rZ]

Why would you throw a woman in jail for committing an illegal abortion when Illegal Immigrants get off scot free???

:\ :\

[wandervogel]

@Tucker

Obviously the video cherry-picked less thoughtful individuals, though I suppose that should have been pointed out initially anyway. Also, women who hire an abortionist are as culpable as the doctor. If a husband hires a hitman to take out his wife, both the hitman and the husband will be charged with murder.

@Erik

And, if I may follow up: what will become of the children who get born only because their mother feared a lengthy jail sentence?

Yes, what would? Hard to speculate since they are dead... We should leave that up to them rather than acting as gods who assume they are not worth being given the chance of living as we do...

[kev-o]

There are 20 million illegal immigrants that hide among the general populace. Kind of hard to walk up to some one and ask if they live here legally or not.

Aborton takes expensive medical equipment and a doctor, stuff that isn't easy to hide.

[Tucker Dan]

Why would you throw a woman in jail for committing an illegal abortion when Illegal Immigrants get off scot free???

:\ :\

Well, the illegals should be in jail to, then deported. I was saying that as a matter of enforcement, its far easier to target the industries that benefit from these practices, than to target the individuals involved. Meaning, if that day ever comes when Roe is overturned and the people finally get to decide this issue, in the states that do ban it, it would be easier and for more possible to go after the people making money off it. Just as with immigration, its much easier to go after employers than to go door to door asking for papers.

If there where no abortion you'd be finding a lot more dumpster babies.

Yes, the promise of a bad life means you surrender your right to live. I fear the day people begin to apply that logic to poverty.

Wandervogel, I know and I agree with you on a philosophical basis, but perhaps not charging the mothers with murder, manslaughter, which in this day and age, combined with the fact that charging a woman with this would be very touchy, she would only end up swerving a few months anyway.

Merged, next time use the edit button, thanks - Shaun

[wandervogel]

@Tucker

Given that the mothers - who are by nature supposed to be those most concerned for the welfare of their children - are the ones ultimately making the call for life or death, I think the penalty should especially harsh. There is no reason to be sympathetic with such deplorable women; there is every reason to loathe, reject and punish their mindset and actions. We have to keep in mind here that the children are the victims, their mothers are the perpetrators...

[Gwendylyn]

There are 20 million illegal immigrants that hide among the general populace. Kind of hard to walk up to some one and ask if they live here legally or not.

Aborton takes expensive medical equipment and a doctor, stuff that isn't easy to hide.

Coathangers are quite cheap actually.

[kev-o]

Yeah, and they also greatly increase the risk of death or great injury to the woman. I don't think a lot of women will go that route.