Abortion, the US and his allies

[morteduzionism]

Is there something hypocritical in American politics/politicians pandering(if that's what they're doing) to anti-choice people while maintaining alliances with nations where abortion is legal? If the US political leaders/citizens care so much about denying people choices why don't they make criminalizing abortion part of their 'human rights' stipulations when dealing with other nations?

I mean we hear about human rights(not the dominant factor but a factor still) as justifications for aggression against Iraq, N. Korea, etc...why isn't abortion a violation of human rights?

[Chaigidel]

because its not a real issue-- the pro lifers Know they have no right to tell anyone what to do with flesh they grow within themselves.

and because we only care about white babies.

[morteduzionism]

because its not a real issue-- the pro lifers Know they have no right to tell anyone what to do with flesh they grow within themselves.

I believe that. But you know, because you've commented on it, there is currently a thread where anti-choice advocates are suggesting Dr.s/mothers should receive the death penalty for performing/surviving an abortion....

and because we only care about white babies.

sounds like protestant christian thinking to me...lol

[Chaigidel]

yeah but its just something to feel righteously indignant about, something that fulfills a feeling of persecution I personally believe.

thats why right to life is such a "struggle" for so many, because they lack any real struggle for life and death like most of the world they latch onto something the perceive as "life and death struggle"-- this is obviously just a perception, but it is why I think that the so called "pro-life" movement exists.

because people have forgotten just how cheap life really is :O

[Shaun]

Not at all, that would be like saying America is hypocritical for maintaining alliances with the rest of the civilised world because America is the only civilisated place where the death penatly may be given.
You do not have to agree with all of your allies domestic policies.

[morteduzionism]

Not at all, that would be like saying America is hypocritical for maintaining alliances with the rest of the civilised world because America is the only civilisated place where the death penatly may be given.

No comprende.

You do not have to agree with all of your allies domestic policies.

So you're saying it's possible to coexist with someone you don't agree with 100%? hmm, sounds like a logical rational viewpoint. So what's wrong with the christofascists in the US who only seem to think there is one way(their way) for the rest of us?

[Shaun]

So you're saying it's possible to coexist with someone you don't agree with 100%? hmm, sounds like a logical rational viewpoint. So what's wrong with the christofascists in the US who only seem to think there is one way(their way) for the rest of us?

I am not a citizen of the US, so I do not really understand the twisted view points of the Christofacists. Thankfully, there are practically none of them here in Britian.

[Cúchulainn]

To abort an infant is a moral decision that you yourself must make.
I am not your mother nor am I you, I have no right to make decisions for you.


My personal view on abortion is, up until week 5, the embryo is nothing more that a collection of cells, multiplying.

After week 5 the embryo develops brain activity, it becomes self aware, sentient. Now the choice for termination is a moral decision that you must make.

[asd21593]

abortion = murder

why can't parents just give the child to adoption?

saying that the mother has a right to kill a baby because the baby is inside her is ok, is like saying that one conjoined twin can kill the other because they are both technically in the same body

abortion is the most evil legal practice in existence and should be punished with death, someone that screwed up to kill their own child when they had a chance to give it life and if they didn't want it, give it to adoption, should be killed

i know adopted kids, and believe they would rather be adopted than killed by their parents, in fact they are very happy and comfortable with the fact they are adopted

[Gary88]

My personal view on abortion is, up until week 5, the embryo is nothing more that a collection of cells, multiplying.

After week 5 the embryo develops brain activity, it becomes self aware, sentient. Now the choice for termination is a moral decision that you must make.

its about 8 weeks before the embryo becomes a foetus and complex brain activity takes far longer to develop but i understand and agree with your point.

@ the OP, if countries only allied with those they agreed with 100% there would be no aliances. if abortion was considered the most important political decision then you might wonder but it isnt. right now something like the Iraq war is one of the Major factors and you can see that the UK and USA get along well but the French dont support the USA on this issue.

[morteduzionism]

Thankfully, there are practically none of them here in Britian.

Lucky bastard! Do British women like men with American accents...

why can't parents just give the child to adoption?

how many are in the system now?

saying that the mother has a right to kill a baby because the baby is inside her is ok, is like saying that one conjoined twin can kill the other because they are both technically in the same body

actually they are not "in" the same body, they share a body...that's completely different from a woman carrying something "in" her body

abortion is the most evil legal practice in existence and should be punished with death, someone that screwed up to kill their own child when they had a chance to give it life and if they didn't want it, give it to adoption, should be killed

So, do you agree that the US should only have alliances with other nations that share that viewpoint of abortion? If not, why?

i know adopted kids, and believe they would rather be adopted than killed by their parents, in fact they are very happy and comfortable with the fact they are adopted

I know some too. I have an adopted family members. How many children have you/your family adopted?

@"they would rather be adopted than killed by their parents"...well duh! I imagine if you asked any "living and breathing" person most would agree with that...they would have to be living and breathing in order to talk...otherwise you can't ask the person...or better yet...they might not be able to be considered a person at all

@ the OP, if countries only allied with those they agreed with 100% there would be no aliances.

No, I'm not asking/talking about 100% agreements. I'm asking why isn't abortion(which is portrayed as a fight of good v evil in the US) used as a barometer for diplomatic relations. If the issue is soooo important to the christofascists why don't they demand their politicians only support/deal with nations that agree with them? Just like they blacklist other Americans for supporting choice why don't they do it to/for countries that deal with the US?

if abortion was considered the most important political decision then you might wonder but it isnt.

It doesn't have to be "the most important political decision." For example, human rights...that's is tossed around as a justification for agression...but isn't considered "the most important political decision"...but it's still used as a reason for granting/denying foreign aid...why doesn't the christofascists demand abortion be used also?

[Cúchulainn]

abortion = murder

abortion is the most evil legal practice in existence and should be punished with death, someone that screwed up to kill their own child when they had a chance to give it life and if they didn't want it, give it to adoption, should be killed

How can you, a human, judge anyone.

You are a mortal, by definition not omnipotent.

You are not a perfect being, you like all humans are corruptable.

So how can you judge and condemn someone, using you own distorted moral compass.

A decision like this should be left to the mother.
Your moral compass should guide you.

[asd21593]

A decision like this should be left to the mother.
Your moral compass should guide you.

if you think that way, then you justify murder, sometimes other humans, (yes, we are definately not perfect) must judge others, that is how law works, other people judge others, thats how we stop rapists, murderers, thieves, etc.

and i dont think that my morality is flawed because i want children to survive, your morality is extremely distorted and cruel for thinking that child murder is "ok"

sometimes decisions cannot be left to the mother, thats like saying the decision is for the murderer to make, we, as a society, cannot allow people to kill their offspring,

1)they should have used contraceptives

2)if they were raped, which i have much sympathy for, i feel that they have to go through with the pregnancy and give the baby to adoption or raise it

i just dont understand how someone can live with themselves knowing they killed a child, there were other options, but they chose death, and you are telling me MY morality is flawed, your supporting murderers who would choose for a child to die rather than live!

[Cúchulainn]

sometimes decisions cannot be left to the mother

So people should be told how to live their life.

your morality is extremely distorted and cruel for thinking that child murder is "ok"

you are telling me MY morality is flawed, your supporting murderers who would choose for a child to die rather than live!

My morality is flawed, okay, here are your exact words

abortion is the most evil legal practice in existence and should be punished with death, someone that screwed up to kill their own child when they had a chance to give it life and if they didn't want it, give it to adoption, should be killed

An Eye for a Eye is the more common phrase, I think.

2)if they were raped, which i have much sympathy for, i feel that they have to go through with the pregnancy and give the baby to adoption or raise it

So you would force a women to go through the agony of child birth after having suffered the act of rape.
And then RAISE the child.

And BTW, the judicial system is imparshal, people are sentenced based on evidence and unanimous verdict by a neutral jury.
Not the common opinion of the (religious) masses.

[Miraj]

1)they should have used contraceptives

I like sex. It is nice.

But what it-a means this "contrakepteevs"??/

[Icefrisco]

Pro-Lifers know they are jokes in the eyes of the world. Thats why they dont protest any pro-abortion states (The Civilized World). Seriously, they claim that America is progressive yet dont give a damn if a fifteen year old girl is pregnant. I sometimes hear stories about eighth grades girls being pregnant!

[Gary88]

I like sex. It is nice.

But what it-a means this "contrakepteevs"??/

is that an actual question, i wasnt sure if it was sarcasm. contraceptives are ways to prevent pregnancy from sex like condoms or 'the pill'

[Richard]

Not at all, that would be like saying America is hypocritical for maintaining alliances with the rest of the civilised world because America is the only civilisated place where the death penatly may be given.
You do not have to agree with all of your allies domestic policies.

I believe a few developed countries in Asia still have it, notably Japan.

Gary, I think that was a Borat quote

Gary, I think that was a Borat quote

Dammit that was meant to merge with the above post

Merged, next time use the edit button - Shaun

[Miraj]

Yeah, sorry. I'll lay off the Borat jokes for a year or so from here on.

[Mangalore]

If the US screws around with human rights the international community agreed upon said US allies might come back hard on the US for such barbaric acts like the death penalty and other questionable "traditions".

Abortion = murder is kind of crap given the way that in most countries abortion is regulated heavily to morally and ethically define just that and which is the reason why abortion is only legal (aside of medical emergencies) up to a clearly defined point in a pregnancy! Murder is a legal concept.

Incidently it seems that mother nature has also a very loose definition of pregnancy and not really a concept for sanctity of life as up to 20% of women will have a miscarriage in their life as their bodies terminate a pregnancy because basic natural instincts tell their bodies that it's not good timing.