The Hardcore Fantasy Battle campaign - An Expansion for Beginning of the End Times

[boatie]

Reiksfart,

Man, you are already a God, no need to learn anything new. Take your time with this. I will wait. I know it will be well worth it. As for Skyrim, you really need to try it out. Too many good things going on there with mods. It does a lot of things right. I was just dreaming about you and skyrim.

As for Total War, other than Call of Warhammer, I think the direction of CA with recent games blows, so my passion for this franchise has gone down a lot. When you no longer care for the people who make the game, its hard to care for the game itself.

[Marcus Tullius Cicero]

I would however sacrifice any new sons in the family to the others if CA somehow coded in the Empire and Shogun 2 total war battle maps, even if it is a pipe dream!

[Reiksfart]

Reiksfart, will the Grudgebearer infantry/cav be improved in your mod? Im always disappointed with them when i recruit them. Their supposed to be experienced mercenaries with kick ass looking armour, but really the infantry is weaker then empire swordsmen (and more expensive) and the Cav isnt that great either. Are they like that in the table top rules? The only thing I use I bother to recruit are the Grudgebearer cannons.

I don't think there are any tabletop rules for the Grudgebringers. I used stats I found on a Warhammer dark Omen site, which gives stats as same as empire swordmen minus 1 initiative. So they are actually worse. What they gain though is heavy armour vs light armour for swordsmen. I just ran a quick test to compare the two against each other, 6 vs 6 just in a long line not doing anything and letting swordmen charge. I quit when 42% of grudgebringer infantry were dead and 59% empire swords were dead.

Nothing to really compare the grudgebringer cavalry with. Can't compare them to empire knights, they only have heavy armour vs full plate, no barding for mount either and no lances. Likewise, can't compare empire knights to chaos knights. They don't stand a chance at all unless they get to charge into a stationary, already fighting chaos knight unit.

But, I haven't decided how I want to implement them yet. I was thinking about full scripted armies, with some of the units from the games. Grudgebringer cav/inf/crossbows/cannon, mortar, ice wizard, bright wizard, ogres, steam tank, dwarfs, elfs, greatswords, outlaws, ragnars wolves, knights of the realm, pistoliers, etc. Two armies, one player controlled and have to fight to survive against two other amies, which would vary depending on what faction you were playing as. Surviving units would be yours and could be replenished, but can't recruit anymore.

Difficult to script, but possible and far more interesting and 'real' than just recruiting endless units.

On that note, if anyone wants to help with scripting you would be most welcome.

[Ichon]

How many pike units will have the halberd secondary? I remember you mentioning you were going to include it.

I added 450 attack delay on mine to balance the animation. But they work excellent after that.

Is there a max for attack delay? I've never seen number that large... I shared the opinion that it made little difference but I've never tried that high for some reason I thought there was a max lower than that.

[Ichon]

Still can't even guess when it will be ready for an initial release, sorry. Once I have the next test version ready for the battle tester all that will be left to test and tweak will be Border Princes, adding in all character/general units and finishing up with rest of the artillery. Then all that needs to be done is descr_buildings, descr_strat and campaign script, plus extra jobs which won't need finishing for a first release like new unit cards for everything in game. Plus finish adding in new music and sounds and the new smoke effects...

Probably more I forgot about. Still lots to do and it is only me doing it. I like to think I'm a bit of a superman, but I'm really not

Don't commit to a time! I've found people come and go and if they volunteer to do some things usually about half of it gets done if you are lucky. Then real life happens and unless you want to sacrifice other stuff a few days go by where not much gets done.

Looks very cool- I appreciate every battle being more difficult rather than only the battles against hordes of super powered elites. What would make playing Empire more difficult than anything else is perhaps slow the charge of the heavy cavalry so they can't do repeat charges as much? Most battles its easy to take 4-5 cavalry and wipe out full stack of enemy. Even if there are elite enemies just wipe out half stack with low losses and then come in on the weaker stack. Not matter how high an attack a unit might have, if its wiped out in a single charge by heavy cavalry it doesn't matter.

[Reiksfart]

What would make playing Empire more difficult than anything else is perhaps slow the charge of the heavy cavalry so they can't do repeat charges as much? Most battles its easy to take 4-5 cavalry and wipe out full stack of enemy. Even if there are elite enemies just wipe out half stack with low losses and then come in on the weaker stack. Not matter how high an attack a unit might have, if its wiped out in a single charge by heavy cavalry it doesn't matter.

I'm not sure if that is going to be a problem. I personally don't play that way, taking advantage of the AI, which often won't respond too well to the hit and run tactics by heavy hitters. I did play a couple of battles earlier to test it out:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Battle 1


vs A.I


If no one can figure out what is what by looking at the new nurgle unit cards, then I have failed.

Anyway, a very basic nurgle army. Lacking a lot of its potential power. I wouldn't expect to lose with even a normal well rounded Empire army, replacing 3 of the knights with swordsmen.

Result, as expected really. I just left the line alone and concentrated on hit and run with the knights. Really no way the nurgle AI could counter it. I still took a fair amount of casualties though.


Next battle was against what I would call an above average nurgle army. Still plenty of marauders (Richard Simmons is mounted nurgle marauder- I'm too embarrassed to post the new unit card. It needs remaking.

Battle 2


vs



I played the same way. Left the line alone and concentrated on using the knights to my advantage, hit and run. Chaos knights hunted down one unit which I sped a greatsword unit to help out. That allowed the knights to go fight something they could beat.

Long story short, even with hit and run from all the knights, I lost, by a fair margin. Knights could not deal enough casualties before my line started collapsing. Mortars didn't help by wiping out nearly half a unit of spearmen, which had just been charged by the nurgle giants. Idiots.




Before anyone thinks chaos are too hard, I can and have beaten them with my normal tactics and a normal well rounded army, which usually involve only a couple of units of knights, choosing the right time and place to charge and then just leaving them to fight. Sometimes pulling them back eventually, especially if the enemy pulls out a unit of cavalry (I don't feel it is cheating then). I was just using tactics I don't normally use and neglecting the rest of the army while I was trying to break the enemy with the hit and run knights ( I did break quite a few, including the trolls, who rallied and charged again). Someone more used to those tactics might pull it off better, but that isn't to my taste.

[Ichon]

I'm not sure if that is going to be a problem. I personally don't play that way, taking advantage of the AI, which often won't respond too well to the hit and run tactics by heavy hitters. I did play a couple of battles earlier to test it out:

Well it shouldn't take much of a change, mod the movement to .85 or something for really heavy cavalry and they have normal stamina should be enough and would barely affect your play style of holding the cavalry in reserve then charging and leaving them.

Personally I use my cavalry to first eliminate most dangerous enemy units(usually other heavy cavalry but sometimes magic users) then kill the enemy general, and finally rear charge to break the morale of the remaining enemy. Of course sometimes the first task is quite difficult and there is a real hard battle on my hands. More often I end up with 2 different army compositions for Empire- one with artillery and line holding troops plus a couple heavy infantry with only a single BG or maybe 2. The other with only half a stack of some scrap/cheap state troops and about 5-6 HC including 1 BG. Usually that ends as a Heroic victory with losses very light as far as unit costs where 1/3 the stat troops are chewed up costing about 3,000 and the cavalry requires maybe 1 retraining per battle about 1,000 for total 4,000. I basically use unit costs as a substitute for points of TT. The artillery heavy army actually averages only 50% higher because sometimes lucky hits really devastate the enemy army but more often it is a slugging match where about 1/4 the state troops are lost requiring 6,000 to retrain/replace while the artillery and BG have minimal losses requiring very little cost per battle.

I agree with you that AI doesn't deal very well with repeat charges by heavy cavalry but neither does it deal with magic, mortars, HA, elevated terrain, or gates. Refusing to use any of those would make battles a bit boring to me. I think its fine if heavy cavalry can do repeat charges as long as its not so easy. Having to line up and charge more slowly with .85 movement makes them more vulnerable and reform more slowly after a charge. Average stamina means they will tire more quickly and move slower and become more vulnerable in melee battles so the wise general might not be so tempted to throw them into the battle immediately.

[Reiksfart]

Added in my old unreleased Tzeentch marauder textures.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well it shouldn't take much of a change, mod the movement to .85 or something for really heavy cavalry and they have normal stamina should be enough and would barely affect your play style of holding the cavalry in reserve then charging and leaving them.

Personally I use my cavalry to first eliminate most dangerous enemy units(usually other heavy cavalry but sometimes magic users) then kill the enemy general, and finally rear charge to break the morale of the remaining enemy. Of course sometimes the first task is quite difficult and there is a real hard battle on my hands. More often I end up with 2 different army compositions for Empire- one with artillery and line holding troops plus a couple heavy infantry with only a single BG or maybe 2. The other with only half a stack of some scrap/cheap state troops and about 5-6 HC including 1 BG. Usually that ends as a Heroic victory with losses very light as far as unit costs where 1/3 the stat troops are chewed up costing about 3,000 and the cavalry requires maybe 1 retraining per battle about 1,000 for total 4,000. I basically use unit costs as a substitute for points of TT. The artillery heavy army actually averages only 50% higher because sometimes lucky hits really devastate the enemy army but more often it is a slugging match where about 1/4 the state troops are lost requiring 6,000 to retrain/replace while the artillery and BG have minimal losses requiring very little cost per battle.

I agree with you that AI doesn't deal very well with repeat charges by heavy cavalry but neither does it deal with magic, mortars, HA, elevated terrain, or gates. Refusing to use any of those would make battles a bit boring to me. I think its fine if heavy cavalry can do repeat charges as long as its not so easy. Having to line up and charge more slowly with .85 movement makes them more vulnerable and reform more slowly after a charge. Average stamina means they will tire more quickly and move slower and become more vulnerable in melee battles so the wise general might not be so tempted to throw them into the battle immediately.

I really don't think it is necessary to lower their speed since that style of gameplay won't be nearly as effective in this submod, where everything is more or less equal and the player will be hard pressed to win against a well rounded AI army. I certainly won't be adding in any scripted armies which would stand no chance against that type of tactic. Normally when I move my knights around the flanks they are hunted down by chaos knights or marauders (and even mounted marauders can wipe out a unit of empire knights if they get the charge on you. They are hard striking light cavalry, not the silly skirmishers in vanilla CoW)

Regardless of the thoughtless balancing of artillery, wizards, overpowered Empire everything etc etc in vanilla CoW, the AI still has access to everything the player does. What the AI doesn't have access to is the ability to charge>withdraw>reform>charge>withdraw>, which is why I now refuse to use that tactic. I'm not judging anyone who does use it, people can play however they want. I just don't think it is realistic, even in a fantasy pc game. For me, it takes away some of the satisfaction of winning a battle, and believe me, in this submod it is full of satisfaction to scratch out a win, which in vanilla CoW would have been a win even in a 1 v 2 situation for an experienced player. Historically, knights had to route the enemy in their first charge, or they would be bogged down. No way to backup the horses or turn around. They'd be slaughtered if they tried.

[Ichon]

I really don't think it is necessary to lower their speed since that style of gameplay won't be nearly as effective in this submod, where everything is more or less equal and the player will be hard pressed to win against a well rounded AI army. I certainly won't be adding in any scripted armies which would stand no chance against that type of tactic. Normally when I move my knights around the flanks they are hunted down by chaos knights or marauders (and even mounted marauders can wipe out a unit of empire knights if they get the charge on you. They are hard striking light cavalry, not the silly skirmishers in vanilla CoW)

Regardless of the thoughtless balancing of artillery, wizards, overpowered Empire everything etc etc in vanilla CoW, the AI still has access to everything the player does. What the AI doesn't have access to is the ability to charge>withdraw>reform>charge>withdraw>, which is why I now refuse to use that tactic. I'm not judging anyone who does use it, people can play however they want. I just don't think it is realistic, even in a fantasy pc game. For me, it takes away some of the satisfaction of winning a battle, and believe me, in this submod it is full of satisfaction to scratch out a win, which in vanilla CoW would have been a win even in a 1 v 2 situation for an experienced player. Historically, knights had to route the enemy in their first charge, or they would be bogged down. No way to backup the horses or turn around. They'd be slaughtered if they tried.

Well I like everything else you are doing in so far so I'll probably just change it myself if needed. Historically knights charges usually faltered before contact or they ran through the formation and reformed on the other side, the necessity to backup in MTW2 is a bit weird though I have had some success in wedge going right through a formation(castles gets etc it works better than column).

[Pietrak]

Well, historically a knight would drop his lance after the charge ended and so would be left without a lance for the rest of the battle, unless he went to a supply camp.

[IrishBlood]

I don't think there are any tabletop rules for the Grudgebringers. I used stats I found on a Warhammer dark Omen site, which gives stats as same as empire swordmen minus 1 initiative. So they are actually worse. What they gain though is heavy armour vs light armour for swordsmen. I just ran a quick test to compare the two against each other, 6 vs 6 just in a long line not doing anything and letting swordmen charge. I quit when 42% of grudgebringer infantry were dead and 59% empire swords were dead.

Nothing to really compare the grudgebringer cavalry with. Can't compare them to empire knights, they only have heavy armour vs full plate, no barding for mount either and no lances. Likewise, can't compare empire knights to chaos knights. They don't stand a chance at all unless they get to charge into a stationary, already fighting chaos knight unit.

But, I haven't decided how I want to implement them yet. I was thinking about full scripted armies, with some of the units from the games. Grudgebringer cav/inf/crossbows/cannon, mortar, ice wizard, bright wizard, ogres, steam tank, dwarfs, elfs, greatswords, outlaws, ragnars wolves, knights of the realm, pistoliers, etc. Two armies, one player controlled and have to fight to survive against two other amies, which would vary depending on what faction you were playing as. Surviving units would be yours and could be replenished, but can't recruit anymore.

Difficult to script, but possible and far more interesting and 'real' than just recruiting endless units.

On that note, if anyone wants to help with scripting you would be most welcome.

I really dont think you should limit mercenaries like that. Mercs can be fairly essential for weaker factions, e.g the border princes etc. Balencing them with table top rules would be fine, no need to limit their recruitment.

As for cav charges etc, while going for TT purity is great for individual battles, I think your gonna have trouble balencing the AI in the campagin map. While human players would be able to handle the realistic balencing, smaller AI controlled factions would get completly raped. Im currently playing as Ostland, its hard, but its good fun, however I have to rely on those hit and run cav tactics alot, especially when it comes to helping my allies (i usually send a half stack of cav to help them when their cities get besieged).

The realistic rules would be fine for factions like Reikland and Averland that have alot of money and can crank out armies no problem (I had at least 8 full stacks ready for the chaos invasion as Reikland in 1.4.4). But people playing poor factions like Ostland, Ostermark, Nordaland or Stirland would REALLY struggle. Skilled players might manage to scrap through, but I fear you might be making things impossibly hard for the weaker factions and/or players. Now i'd count myelf as a pretty skilled player, I play on VH/VH and get alot of heroic victories, but I dont think i'd be capable of winning with Osland using your hardcore rules.

Maybe things wouldn't be that bad, but your making your mod sound like an apocoliptic dooms day for the weaker factions


EDIT: also, how strong will gun unis be?

[Ichon]

Are there any weaker factions by the time Chaos Storm comes? It 60 turns... Ostland etc might have more trouble vs scripted stacks but still plenty of time to build up. Without those scripted battles there are a lot of rebel/beastmen cities any faction can grab. 1.5 does stronger beastmen but weaker scripted battles.

I don't think he was going to limit all mercenaries just the more rare ones. As empire. I use ogres and any cavalry Mercs a lot. Not AI much the rest. Border Princes I use some missile or pike Mercs more but I don't feel totally reliant on Mercs.

[IrishBlood]

Are there any weaker factions by the time Chaos Storm comes? It 60 turns... Ostland etc might have more trouble vs scripted stacks but still plenty of time to build up. Without those scripted battles there are a lot of rebel/beastmen cities any faction can grab. 1.5 does stronger beastmen but weaker scripted battles.

I don't think he was going to limit all mercenaries just the more rare ones. As empire. I use ogres and any cavalry Mercs a lot. Not AI much the rest. Border Princes I use some missile or pike Mercs more but I don't feel totally reliant on Mercs.

I have yet to face the chaos invasion yet, im only about half way through my campaign of Ostland at the moment (and have yet to recieve any warrior priests, bright wizards, or offers to hire Merc captaisn i might add!)

There are alot of rebel settlements, but not many for the northern/central factions, and off those only Mordeheim provides any serious cash. I got extremly lucky when playing as Hochland in 1.4.4, a crusade was launched against the vampire counts, I captured Mordheim and Drakenwald (the target of the crusade) and from then on used the mercs available in mordehim to continue the fight against the vampires. I managed to take virtually all the Vampire counts lands and the rebel settlements around them, effectively creating a whole other faction for myself. Without the cash that provided I would have struggled ALOT more when playing as Hochland, of that I have no doubt.
Basically, what im saying is, the rebel settlements arn't enough to compensate for the kinda cash factions like reikland or averladn make. (Unless you manage to capture Magdeburg or whatever ts called as Nordaland or middenheim)

I wasnt refering to the AI controlled border princes. To my knowledge, you play as the Border princes the scripted incvasions will screw you over more then the they do to the AI, also with the hardcore fantasy mods rules the border princes standard units are likely to be made even weaker, makign mercs even more essential!

[Reiksfart]

I really dont think you should limit mercenaries like that. Mercs can be fairly essential for weaker factions, e.g the border princes etc. Balencing them with table top rules would be fine, no need to limit their recruitment.

As for cav charges etc, while going for TT purity is great for individual battles, I think your gonna have trouble balencing the AI in the campagin map. While human players would be able to handle the realistic balencing, smaller AI controlled factions would get completly raped. Im currently playing as Ostland, its hard, but its good fun, however I have to rely on those hit and run cav tactics alot, especially when it comes to helping my allies (i usually send a half stack of cav to help them when their cities get besieged).

The realistic rules would be fine for factions like Reikland and Averland that have alot of money and can crank out armies no problem (I had at least 8 full stacks ready for the chaos invasion as Reikland in 1.4.4). But people playing poor factions like Ostland, Ostermark, Nordaland or Stirland would REALLY struggle. Skilled players might manage to scrap through, but I fear you might be making things impossibly hard for the weaker factions and/or players. Now i'd count myelf as a pretty skilled player, I play on VH/VH and get alot of heroic victories, but I dont think i'd be capable of winning with Osland using your hardcore rules.

Maybe things wouldn't be that bad, but your making your mod sound like an apocoliptic dooms day for the weaker factions


EDIT: also, how strong will gun unis be?

The entire campaign will be reworked and everything balanced. If I leave the current campaign as it is, you would be right, it would be impossible to survive, even as a stronger 'good' faction. I have yet to play a test campaign, but it is clear from the very challenging battles that it would be nothing but futile. So it does need a lot of work balancing it. I think that will be the most difficult part because of the time involved with testing, since battles will need to be fought on the battle map to get a true indication of overall balancing. I'm assuming Pietrak will be willing to continue helping, I hope he has the time, but it will still only be us two doing it.

Guns, as in handguns or everything gunpowder? Handguns and pistols are great performers for those who have them. I found a new way of balancing all missile units without ramping up attack values or even resorting to giving them AP, which is an overpowered attribute. Only used that for artillery which don't allow an armour saving throw in TT. I think mortars are just right now, always worth taking. I'm not entirely happy with cannons just yet, they need more testing and adjustments. One battle they will perform ok, then the following battle they will be next to useless.

I certainly won't be spending all this time on creating the best possible battles I can, just to ruin it all with a frustrating campaign. Remember, I started this submod so I could play the campaign I wanted to with everything I could add in myself. I want a real challenge, but I also want to be able to win with a lot of effort.

[Ichon]

Hmm... Hochland seemed pretty rich faction to me. The mines in the northern towns and at the center of the largest clusters of rebel/beastmen towns. Nordland is pretty poor until capturing the free city but its worth 5 cities by itself. Ostland, Nordland, and Ostermark are the poorest but only Ostland is quite far from easy and rich conquests. In 1.4 you could usually score former Kislevite towns from the Dark Elves or Chaos but in 1.5 with fewer scripted battles that is less likely so ends up having to send conquest armies south where a war with Vampires starts pretty quick.

Reiksfart how much balancing will you be doing for the Chaos/Vampires factions if Chaos knights are that hard to beat for Empire- does that tend to make Chaos easy to play?

[Reiksfart]

Reiksfart how much balancing will you be doing for the Chaos/Vampires factions if Chaos knights are that hard to beat for Empire- does that tend to make Chaos easy to play?

That's the trick, and a difficult trick to pull off. I think we've done a good job of overall balancing so far. There's no denying, Empire are outmatched by chaos. They have numbers, guns and artillery, which is (supposed to be) the great equalizer.

Here are some pics of a battle I played soon after reading your post. Pics themselves arn't interesting, it's the percentages at the bottom that show the ebb and flow of the battle.

I purposely chose an above average nurgle army, which would be too expensive on the upkeep to be an average army for the player. No point in sugar coating it, I knew I'd win against a mostly average empire army.

Would have been much closer if not for several points. 1)AI decided to run its missile units closer to me at the start. It could have fired from the off, but instead chose to wreck perfectly coded firing formations. I will try to fix that and hope the AI will make use of its range in the campaign where armies start even further apart. 2)Warrior priests did not do a lot. I think it may have to do with the preaching special ability. I will remove it and see if they get stuck in sooner. Small unit, but they are very hard hitting and take a concentrated effort to kill off.

All I'll say about the battle was I hit the AI's pistoliers with one unit of mounted marauders, wiping them out, while the other mounted marauders hit the artillery. So I did make an effort to stop them blasting away.

Lots of pics.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Will post some more of these (percentage) AAR's soon.

[IrishBlood]

The entire campaign will be reworked and everything balanced. If I leave the current campaign as it is, you would be right, it would be impossible to survive, even as a stronger 'good' faction. I have yet to play a test campaign, but it is clear from the very challenging battles that it would be nothing but futile. So it does need a lot of work balancing it. I think that will be the most difficult part because of the time involved with testing, since battles will need to be fought on the battle map to get a true indication of overall balancing. I'm assuming Pietrak will be willing to continue helping, I hope he has the time, but it will still only be us two doing it.

Guns, as in handguns or everything gunpowder? Handguns and pistols are great performers for those who have them. I found a new way of balancing all missile units without ramping up attack values or even resorting to giving them AP, which is an overpowered attribute. Only used that for artillery which don't allow an armour saving throw in TT. I think mortars are just right now, always worth taking. I'm not entirely happy with cannons just yet, they need more testing and adjustments. One battle they will perform ok, then the following battle they will be next to useless.

I certainly won't be spending all this time on creating the best possible battles I can, just to ruin it all with a frustrating campaign. Remember, I started this submod so I could play the campaign I wanted to with everything I could add in myself. I want a real challenge, but I also want to be able to win with a lot of effort.

well thats good then, i have every faith in you when it comes to campaign balencing. I reckon your in for a tough time though. The one way I can think of balencing the campagin (the easiest way anyway ), without having to reduce the amount of scripted armies which are what CoW so special, would be to massively increase the money each faction makes, so that they can produce alot more armies. These armies would get chewed up pretty quickly so that would work balence wise.

Also, and correct me if im mistaken here cos im no lore expert, but dont the empire armies usually hugely outnumber the forces of Chaos in terms of sheer manpower, but because the average imperial man is no match for a warrior of chaos it balences things up?

That sounds good tio me, its just that the handgunners seem to score less hits/kills with their rifles then pistoliers do with their pistols. Since rifles are bigger, more powerful and have better range and accracy, it stands to reason that they should be more effective in battle, at least compared to pistoliers. IM NOT SAYING WEAKEN PISTOLIERS! my god i'd be lost without them

Hmm... Hochland seemed pretty rich faction to me. The mines in the northern towns and at the center of the largest clusters of rebel/beastmen towns. Nordland is pretty poor until capturing the free city but its worth 5 cities by itself. Ostland, Nordland, and Ostermark are the poorest but only Ostland is quite far from easy and rich conquests. In 1.4 you could usually score former Kislevite towns from the Dark Elves or Chaos but in 1.5 with fewer scripted battles that is less likely so ends up having to send conquest armies south where a war with Vampires starts pretty quick.

Reiksfart how much balancing will you be doing for the Chaos/Vampires factions if Chaos knights are that hard to beat for Empire- does that tend to make Chaos easy to play?

Hocland is resonably wealthy, but no where near to the extent that Reikland or Averland is. Even with all the vampire counts lands including Mordenheim, I still wasnt making anywhere near as much money as Reikland. (that said, i did control Madeburg as Reikland, but it goes without saying that any decent player would have that city by the time the chaos invasion occurs)

[Ichon]

@ IrishBlood- you may be right about Hochland relative to the southern Duchies, I've only played Nordland, Hochland, Ostmark, and Talabacland of the Empire. I just remember that Hochland was by far the richest and I never even captured Marienburg. Nordland on the other hand without Marienburg would be nearly impossible to build up for Chaos and fight off the Dark Elf invasion at the same time and definitely felt the poorest. With Ostmark I took all the nearby rebel cities and scored Erengrad and don't really remember having money problems until the massive buildup just before Chaos Storm breaks out.

@ Reiksfart- That doesn't look too bad, about the numbers I would expect IE- Empire 2x as many as a Chaos army with Empire guns and discipline making the difference. I think Pistoliers could get reduced ammo but with that they would be balanced. As it is now they can dance around Chaos Knights and kill 1/3-2/3 before ever getting into melee. I actually found the Marauder horsemen pretty dangerous before but you thought they were weak? I've lost nearly entire company of White Wolf to 1 of them before and learned you simply can't charge them before they run out of ammo without unacceptable losses or they must be distracted by a range unit in loose formation to receive the javelins while Knights ride in from the flanks. I thought they played similar to how Pistoliers should although Pistoliers should hold up in melee better as they already do, just have so much ammo.

[Reiksfart]

Here is the current points value system. Probably final too, I don't think I can improve it anymore. This is about the 6th revision, going from maybe 10 entries to this many.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Empire do outnumber most other factions on the field of battle. Not quite 2x vs chaos, but it depends on what the chaos army consists of. All marauders and mounted marauders it will be about equal. Dark elves, high elves and dwarves have had their points values increased for balance purposes. High and dark by +4 and dwarves by +3. There are no points limits to an army as in tabletop and it makes sense for these factions to have less troops. (plus they were overpowered without the increase in value)

The above build times and refresh/replenish times are not final either. I can't know what works best until testing the campaign. I will probably increase warriors of chaos by a few points for the refresh times. Too many of those guys will make chaos campaign easy for the player. Will be plenty in the scripts to keep the good faction campaign a serious challenge.

To be honest I don't even remember how mounted marauders performed in combat in vanilla CoW. It has been a long time. I changed them to light cavalry way back in my Reiksfart's Stinkers submod. I removed their javelins because the AI wasted them by charging Mounted Marauders alone at my line and were routed 5 seconds later by missile fire. Now they are simple spear armed light cavalry which the AI uses much better.

[Merkkari]

Personall suggestions what I have noticed lacking always when played Cow many times.

1. Boost Chaos Undivided AI economy: When Storm of chaos starts all thos scripted stacks drains all the mony with expensive special troops. They cant produce nothing during Storm of Chaos and after that, becouse some those crippled armies with Chaos cannons etch. starts heading home back to chaos wastes still draining economy.

2. Make Heretic troops recruitable via empire barracks for Chaos factions: When Invasion starts chaos undivided cant replenish the losses any way, becouse they dont have own barracks in empire cities, or have no money to build them. The troops are Heretic Sworsmen, Pikemen, Archers and Crosbowmen.

3. Chaos Waste army activity: Khrone did attack againt Kislev and south, but when Undivided AI borns all their Ex Slaanesh, Nurgle etch. expensive armies in chaos wastes becomes inactive and stands still, maybe becouse they are missing objectives, or pathfinding?
To fix this, maybe add them a lots of Quest to capture enemy settlemets, even simultaneus if possible to keep their armies moving.

And last a Idea.
Handunners, AI cant handle them efficiently like player do putting them two men deep line. Build similar special formation ability for Musketmen but in "two men deep line" formatio and named as "Firing Line" and make this ability locked for AI. Dont know how this way handunners acts in city.