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Thread: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

  1. #1

    Default Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    The Criterion Collection is a series of films from around the world that are considered to be classics of cinema. They rotate at hulu.com, and so people from the USA or Canada can freely watch them. They always have at least one samurai film each week. Currently Samurai Vendetta is being shown. It deals with the personal challenges created by honor and Bushido against the larger issues of clan honor. It's an excellent film and not to be missed. Naturally since it was filmed in 1959, one cannot judge the quality of the film making by comparing it to recent films. I hope you watch it. Look here for some background information on the 47 Ronin and Lord Asano in 1701 AD. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...y-Nitobe-Inazo Here's the imbd link to Samurai Vendetta (Hakuôki) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0199580/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 And the wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_Vendetta

  2. #2

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpvR2GuHpi8
    Here's a collection of scenes by the great Japanese actor Mifune Toshiro. Many of these are samurai films and several were remade into Western films. One was a Bruce Willis movie and a special no-prize will be won by whoever guesses that first. Another was made into a science fiction film. Another was made into a famous Western.

    You could really learn a lot about the Sengoku Jidai era and the slow decline of the samurai after Sekigara by watching these films. Central aspects of the film show loyalty and loss, supernatural fear of creatures like foxes who were considered as shape-shifters. Ghost show up frequently. The sudden appearance of the enemy from a tall field of grasses or trees. A sentimental mood is often a feature of the films for it's the moment when the samurai drops his tough exterior and shows the true man inside and his spirit (kokoro). I can think of countless events or traits just by watching those films.

    Next up is Onibaba, a film that deals with samurai on the run after losing a battle, the peasants who encountered them, and the supernatural.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5mFJGSbdYs

  3. #3

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    I have often discussed Bushido in the forums. Let us look at the most terrible sins and the secret of peasant attacks on the samurai.

    Onibaba is a famous film made in the sixties in the horror/erotica genre. Rather than discuss Bushido at all, it details the lives of two 13th Century Japanese peasant women and their means of coping while the son/husband is off at war as an ashigaru. Instead of trying to farm crops or raise animals in his absence, they give up acting civilized at all, and instead begin to kill the one or two samurai who are escaping from battlefields. The women are depicted as little more than animals. They kill these samurai (saburai or even bushi at this time period) and they strip the valuable swords and armor from them.

    What is worse but not understood by the casual viewer is they trade these very expensive items away for millet, which was the least favored cheapest grain possible. Eating it regularly without other foods lead to night blindness from lack of proper nutrition.

    Many of these themes are touched upon in Seven Samurai, an ode to selfless samurai in later eras, but here the film exposes the horror of trading away what is more precious and sacrificing all morals to do so. One neighbor who departed with the son/husband comes back under rather vague terms and may certainly have abandoned him. Likewise, meat is eaten, a very rare situation as meat was typically eaten (like poultry) only when very ill to restore strength. It is prohibited by the Buddhists and here the women are depicted as ravenous jackals.

    Not only is this a theme, but the ideas of the Oni (demon) who punish the wicked are also featured. The Japanese of that time period and all throughout the many hundreds of years of the samurai, were very superstitious.

    All of these elements would be very interesting as events in your mods. Unlike the typical themes of honor, duty, unrequited love, chastity, etc here the opposite is true and was highly unusual for the time period. It is not to be missed but don't allow yourself to think all peasants were this way. The practice of killing "samurai on the run" did happen, but for the most part the peasants were deeply fearful of the samurai instead.

    A single sword might be worth 10x the annual koku a samurai received (at least 150 koku was generally the lowest amount though it could be very low for families with traitors or criminals in their past) and so to trade not only one katana or other kind of swords but many and armor which was extremely expensive for MILLET is shocking.

    Next up Throne of Blood, a Kurosawa Akira film with (of course) Mifune Toshiro. It's an excellent drama that features lots of examples of Japanese fortifications as well as the differences in samurai dress and armor.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF_AgZvNB0I
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; May 09, 2013 at 12:53 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    While waiting for me to discuss Throne of Blood, I thought I'd mention that you can watch Gates of Hell on hulu.com this week as well as the very famous Harakiri. By typing "Japanese" in the search term, clicking on film and clicking on free, you can pull up over a dozen Japanese films.

    While Gates of Hell is a samurai film, particularly the time period of the Gempei War period in the Heian era, it's not a great film just a good one. It's about a samurai who does something heroic and then becomes obsessed with a woman and asks for her hand in marriage. I won't spoil it by telling you the rest. He does give up his sense of Bushido entirely while another man carefully keeps his. For someone modding, there are many great scenes in which you could grab screencaps to get all kinds of things historically accurate. The film was carefully recolored to reflect the actual fabrics used as well as the appropriate color for armor. So it's worth watching.

    Harakiri discusses the real issues with Bushido and how it could be turned around in cruel ways to make the samurai suffer. I plan on discussing that later.

    Rashomon has now had the copyright end and so can easily be found on the net. It deals with the samurai era and of course is a famous Toshiro Mifure as well as Akira Kurosawa film. It really is about the various perceptions we have about reality and what is happening because of our bias.

  5. #5
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    I'm actually interested in buying some of these films.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  6. #6

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Quote Originally Posted by money View Post
    I'm actually interested in buying some of these films.
    For several years I received the top samurai films as gifts. I bought many as well. Several hold up well like Seven Samurai, Throne of Blood, Kagemusha, Harakiri, Sansho the Balif, several versions of the 47 Ronin, the Musashi trilogy, After the Rain, Rashomon, etc.

    Seven Samurai has consistently been in the top 20 films of all time in many distinguished lists. It is well worth seeing and inspiring. In that film all of the issues with Bushido as well as the terrible burden of Bushido as well as the profound honor of it is all blended together. Twilight Samurai is also that kind of film, though it is a fairly recent one by comparison.

    For many years IFC (The Independent Film Channel) featured a samurai film each week or the occasional chambarra film which is often not held to the same standards. They'd show Three Outlaw Samurai, Yojimbo, or Sanjuro or similar. They are very good films and worth watching.

    Another clip from Throne of Blood demonstrating the idea of the fear of the supernatural
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 01, 2013 at 06:07 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Excellent thread, I'm looking forward to see some un-Kurosawa Japanese films dealing with Medieval Japan era .

  8. #8

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Well, I always recommend the Twilight Samurai as it was made about 2003 or so, and can be easily located. The lead actor is the same actor in the Last Samurai who duels with Tom Cruise.



    It isn't the medieval period though. The samurai are fading out, just as the title describes. How many times can you count that Seibei (Twilight) could have killed the other samurai? He demonstrates remarkable chivalry despite the opposite reaction. Note the little movement he does after bopping him on the head. That was to sling off the blood from a sword prior to putting it back in the scabbard. Japanese actors in these films actually study at a special school of Budo so they will make the proper martial art movements for they realize there is a great responsibility in depicting them.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 01, 2013 at 06:20 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    This guy created three youtube videos on the top chambara films of all time. It gives you a glimpse of several films that I think you'll enjoy.



  10. #10

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    For the next 22 hours, Hulu.com will be featuring Silence (1971), a film about the Catholic missionaries to Japan. It's an extremely difficult film to find and would likely help many of you in modding. Here's two links about the film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067755/ http://cinematalk.wordpress.com/2008.../silence-1971/ For the next 100 days, Hulu will feature 100 different films from the Criterion collection and now is a good time to watch some Japanese (and other fine world cinema) for free.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 04, 2013 at 04:33 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Oh an by the way... The Hidden Fortress was Star Wars, Yojimbo became The Good the Bad and the Ugly and The Last Man Standing, Seven Samurai became the Magnificent Seven (and just about anything with Samurai) and Do Des Kaden... shall not be named. Also I would just like to say that Kagemusha was awesome and is Ran really good (I hear many think it is Kurosawa's best but I hear that the title should go to Seven Samurai so I'm not sure).

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  12. #12

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Quote Originally Posted by money View Post
    Oh an by the way... The Hidden Fortress was Star Wars, Yojimbo became The Good the Bad and the Ugly and The Last Man Standing, Seven Samurai became the Magnificent Seven (and just about anything with Samurai) and Do Des Kaden... shall not be named. Also I would just like to say that Kagemusha was awesome and is Ran really good (I hear many think it is Kurosawa's best but I hear that the title should go to Seven Samurai so I'm not sure).
    Excellent! You win the No prize! Most people don't know that those movies were remade. Seven Samurai is really an old school classic, is just so honorable, a great story, and superior performances. It's easy to resonate with the characters.

    Ran is really great, I agree. It has some of the very best battle scenes ever made as does Kagemusha. If you only had time to see three samurai genre films I would see those three for certain.




  13. #13
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Ran was depressing, but what can you expect since it was based on Shakespeare. Ruby, have you seen Goemon?



  14. #14
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Which Goemon? The new one and he dies and says "what a sight"? If so then I saw it, in fact I thought the backstory was more interesting than where the film begins but yeah it was decent enough.

    I have seen so far Seven Samurai, Kagemusha, Yojimbo and a film called Heaven and Earth (which is by no means a great film but has beautiful imagery, moments and an impressive Kawanakajima battle scene; of course the characters are not very memorable and the film is plagued with problems but one can watch it and find it both relaxing and enjoyable. It also has a nice take on the Kenshin vs Shingen and what it is to have a rival).




    Oh yeah, what did I win?
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; June 09, 2013 at 12:12 AM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  15. #15

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Quote Originally Posted by ☩Lord Inquisitor Derpy Hooves☩ View Post
    Ran was depressing, but what can you expect since it was based on Shakespeare. Ruby, have you seen Goemon?
    It's supposed to be depressing. What can you expect based upon that level of sibling rivalry, an absence of Bushido, betraying your father, and the Japanese love of high tragedy?
    Quote Originally Posted by money View Post
    Which Goemon? The new one and he dies and says "what a sight"? If so then I saw it, in fact I thought the backstory was more interesting than where the film begins but yeah it was decent enough.

    I have seen so far Seven Samurai, Kagemusha, Yojimbo and a film called Heaven and Earth (which is by no means a great film but has beautiful imagery, moments and an impressive Kawanakajima battle scene; of course the characters are not very memorable and the film is plagued with problems but one can watch it and find it both relaxing and enjoyable. It also has a nice take on the Kenshin vs Shingen and what it is to have a rival).




    Oh yeah, what did I win?
    Yes, I've never seen Heaven and Earth be on any top 20 chambara or jidaigeki lists. It has a reputation like Mt. Fuji. Mt. Fuji is stunningly beautiful in all the photos, but the climb is pure Hell from the base to the summit. Then you get to the summit, exhausted beyond all endurance, broke from the overpricing, and encounter fog obscuring the vista the majority of the time. [When I climbed it, I spent a fortune for a few days to stay close by and that was many years ago and the room prices were insanely high.] Only a madman would climb it twice. I saw clips of Heaven and Earth and I know it was a terribly expensive film and famous, but even the guys at the Samurai Archives don't praise it...and they are hard core fans of this genre.

    Talk about a mismatched soundtrack!
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 09, 2013 at 12:37 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Yeah the whole film is a problem but I liked seeing Kenshin if anything, the cinematography is pretty nice. It is kind of a guilty pleasure of mine although it can get exhaustive seeing as how the whole film is just a series of events (not even technically a story or film, just a bunch of loosely connected events happening before the camera). It is very famous in Japan because of its portrayal of Kawanakajima, the portrayal of Kenshin and its many beautiful scenes and music (I swear you could meditate while watching this film). Although the film never even made it into theatres and is extremely low budget so it is a miracle it had any success. The filming of the battle scenes were a nightmare and no one even wanted to make this film in the first place. So really the fame is due to the cinematography which and the aesthetic images (I am pretty sure they were going for Akira Kurosawa type images here). Also the Kenshin actor is pretty good and I guess the rivalry is good with what little worked worth. Pretty funny how this low budget film that they made just cause became one of the top grossing films in Japan, mostly through rentals and vhs tapes.

    On another note I saw Ran... pretty damn good, not sure whether Seven Samurai is better or what but I like all of these samurai/daimyo films (Kagemusha being one of my all time favourite films).

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  17. #17

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Quote Originally Posted by money View Post
    Yeah the whole film is a problem but I liked seeing Kenshin if anything, the cinematography is pretty nice. It is kind of a guilty pleasure of mine although it can get exhaustive seeing as how the whole film is just a series of events (not even technically a story or film, just a bunch of loosely connected events happening before the camera). It is very famous in Japan because of its portrayal of Kawanakajima, the portrayal of Kenshin and its many beautiful scenes and music (I swear you could meditate while watching this film). Although the film never even made it into theatres and is extremely low budget so it is a miracle it had any success. The filming of the battle scenes were a nightmare and no one even wanted to make this film in the first place. So really the fame is due to the cinematography which and the aesthetic images (I am pretty sure they were going for Akira Kurosawa type images here). Also the Kenshin actor is pretty good and I guess the rivalry is good with what little worked worth. Pretty funny how this low budget film that they made just cause became one of the top grossing films in Japan, mostly through rentals and vhs tapes.

    On another note I saw Ran... pretty damn good, not sure whether Seven Samurai is better or what but I like all of these samurai/daimyo films (Kagemusha being one of my all time favourite films).
    Oh! I didn't know it was low budget. I saw an article about it and I thought it was alluding to the budget not the profits made.

    Yes. Takeda Shingen is a very interesting leader. I don't know why a major new film hasn't been made about him. It likely would have to be a miniseries to do it justice. Hasn't there been a good jidaigeki about him on NHK?

    "Upon Shingen's death, Kenshin reportedly cried at the loss of one of his strongest and most deeply respected rivals. One of the most lasting tributes to Shingen's prowess was that of Tokugawa Ieyasu himself, who is known to have borrowed heavily from the old Takeda leader's governmental and military innovations after he had taken leadership of Kai during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's rise to power. Many of these designs were put to use in the Tokugawa Shogunate."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeda_Shingen
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uesugi_Kenshin

    Who hasn't read that account and thought about respecting a rival in such a profound way? It was a time of giants, and tiny alterations might have resulted in any of them becoming the Shogun and then affecting the samurai in far different ways. What could have happened if only ____ had not happened?

    In 1988 they made 50 episodes about his life. See:
    http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Takeda_Shingen
    I've never seen it. No doubt it's very dated in its portrayal of Lord Takeda.

    I think this is it:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_Banners
    Have you seen Samurai Banners [called Furin kazan in Japanese](1969) it's dated but a decent movie with Mifune Toshiro. Several years ago I acquired the DVD. It's buried in storage. I need to get it out and rewatch it.

    On a related note, I've always wanted to see the Immortal Admiral Yi Sun-sin. It's a famous Korean drama about their greatest admiral during the approximate time period (1598) and depicted the Joseon dynasty. People have heard about the samurai, but know very little about Korea and Imjin War. As such, the Korean soldiers are falsely depicted as lesser soldiers. That is a terrible injustice. Some mods could show great naval battles including him. I'd love to see a minimod about that war.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Admiral_Yi_Sun-sin
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; June 12, 2013 at 01:07 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Heaven and Earth I think had a 40 million dollar budget but I hear that they didn't really use that much or something, some sort of problem was going on and they ended up using most of it in things like props and scenes but they used very little in the way of writers and all that stuff which gives it substance. The film ended up making billions though even though it was only shown in very few theatres in Japan.

    I think that there is a Takeda Shingen show but it is pretty biased against Nobunaga and depicts him as a sneaky and conniving type villain. I didn't see it though.
    Nobunaga's reaction upon the loss of Shingen was pretty respectful but I think he also expressed that he was glad to get rid of that thorn in his side. Nobunaga's reaction upon Kenshin's death was much different and he reportedly mourned the loss of a great hero supposedly saying "we have lost a truly great man" and that the death of Kenshin was like losing a brother (which was really not the reaction that he had when Shingen died, instead he respcted Shingen but was rather happy to get rid of someone that Nobunaga considered an opportunistic hypocrite) although he also said that due to Kenshin's death no one in Japan had the strength to confront him.

    I am pretty interested in watching a Nobunaga "thing" (film, show... whatever), I saw King of Zipangu which was good but I am wondering if there is anything else.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  19. #19

    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Quote Originally Posted by money View Post
    Heaven and Earth I think had a 40 million dollar budget but I hear that they didn't really use that much or something, some sort of problem was going on and they ended up using most of it in things like props and scenes but they used very little in the way of writers and all that stuff which gives it substance. The film ended up making billions though even though it was only shown in very few theatres in Japan.

    I think that there is a Takeda Shingen show but it is pretty biased against Nobunaga and depicts him as a sneaky and conniving type villain. I didn't see it though.
    Nobunaga's reaction upon the loss of Shingen was pretty respectful but I think he also expressed that he was glad to get rid of that thorn in his side. Nobunaga's reaction upon Kenshin's death was much different and he reportedly mourned the loss of a great hero supposedly saying "we have lost a truly great man" and that the death of Kenshin was like losing a brother (which was really not the reaction that he had when Shingen died, instead he respcted Shingen but was rather happy to get rid of someone that Nobunaga considered an opportunistic hypocrite) although he also said that due to Kenshin's death no one in Japan had the strength to confront him.

    I am pretty interested in watching a Nobunaga "thing" (film, show... whatever), I saw King of Zipangu which was good but I am wondering if there is anything else.
    Thanks for clearing that up about Heaven and Earth.

    I have a terrible bias about Tokugawa and the resulting Shogunate because I truly blame them for the decline in the samurai. As he consolidated power, such greatness could have been achieved by working together, not to mention the horrific Christian persecutions which resulted not only in the loss of so much life but was destructive in subtracting from Japanese technology exchanges with the Dutch and Portuguese. That really makes no sense, but given the xenophobia I guess was inevitable.

    I'd love to see a Japanese film(s) without bias to show in a measured way all of the major players leading up to Sengoku and in its aftermath. Maybe such a thing could be done as a trilogy. It truly would be a great tv jidaigeki series given the time to show the viewpoints of everyone. It probably will never happen. They all had major achievements.

  20. #20
    Derpy Hooves's Avatar Bombs for Muffins
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    Default Re: Criterion Collection of Samurai films

    Is there a film about Hideyoshi? I have alot of respect for that man after reading Taiko.



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