What is Islam? Ask a Muslim

[Enemy of the State]

Maybe you should read it more carefully then as I explained there why.

You said you looked at all religions with open eyes. Something made you believe that the Qur'an is the word of god, you did not say what.

Not going to answer this?

I've not made a claim that god doesn't exist. I have nothing to prove.

And pardon me, but what does G-d (SWT) mean exactly?

[Matthias]

So there is no proof Allah exists, much less that the Koran is his word and not the devils, or more likely, just made by men. And nearly all Muslims were indoctrinated as children. What a fraud of a religion, like all the others. It must take a lot of intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance to remain a believer, you'd have to make a virtue out of gullibility! Oh wait, religions do....

[squirel]

what does G-d (SWT) mean exactly?

God subhanna wa ta'ala.

[Scruff Dog]

So there is no proof Allah exists, much less that the Koran is his word and not the devils, or more likely, just made by men. And nearly all Muslims were indoctrinated as children. What a fraud of a religion, like all the others. It must take a lot of intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance to remain a believer, you'd have to make a virtue out of gullibility! Oh wait, religions do....

There's no proof for whatever it is you think exists in Gods place and atheism is a religion which people are "indoctrinated into" through the influence and arguments of others like any other religious belief you can have.

[The Kybrothilian]

And pardon me, but what does G-d (SWT) mean exactly?

What Squirel said there. subhanna wa ta'ala translates to "glory to Him, the exalted" in English.

[Himster]

There's no proof for whatever it is you think exists in Gods place

Why do you assume that we "replace" god?
Is it really so alien a concept to you that some people genuinely admit that they don't know something? Can you not even imagine what intellectual integrity is?

and atheism is a religion which people are "indoctrinated into" through the influence and arguments of others like any other religious belief you can have.

Good luck finding more than one doctrine of atheism.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

There's no proof for whatever it is you think exists in Gods place and atheism is a religion which people are "indoctrinated into" through the influence and arguments of others like any other religious belief you can have.

It's not a religion... Here's a long thread about it (http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...l_religion.htm). Most interesting thing about it is that the OP is going through a letter written by someone, who thinks atheism is a religion. So, in a sense he is kind of speaking directly to you.

Read all of the first post or I am going to post all of it in a visitor message on your profile. And, I am going to repeat doing that, until you abstain for the absurdity of calling atheism a religion.

[Scruff Dog]

Why do you assume that we "replace" god?

You replaced God with baseless scientific assumptions which are not based on any known facts. We all know about evolution, the big bang and all the rest of it so we don't disagree on those points. I would argue that all this has a basis in a purpose made design of which we are a small part. You however will say the universe here because it is and we are here because it's a pure coincidence and there is absolutely nothing of any significance behind this just atoms and space. Neither of us has any proof to back either of our claims we are making but the claim I'm making is much more interesting so why not just go with that one? You can surely see the rationality in a belief in God as opposed to atheism when you lay it on the table like this? Whichever is the most rational to believe you believe.

Is it really so alien a concept to you that some people genuinely admit that they don't know something?

But that's the point you don't know whether God exists or not either way therefore you may as well just believe he does. It will be the same scenario either way in that you believe something you can't know, so which belief do you prefer?

Can you not even imagine what intellectual integrity is?

There is equally as much integrity in a belief in God when you don't know yourself. I'd argue there is more integrity but that's my opinion lets just say they're equal.

Good luck finding more than one doctrine of atheism.

I just mean we all believe what we were influenced via our society and upbringing to believe what we believe and atheism is as much an influence as any religion. Once you understand that you then can choose what you would like to believe rather than what you think you should ought to believe. I'm perfectly happy to admit that it is possible that God doesn't exist, there are even non-theistic religions such Buddhism and Jainism so it is something to consider.

[Sar1n]

You replaced God with baseless scientific assumptions which are not based on any known facts.

Actually, what is happening is replacing thought process of "I don't know. Let's see if I can find out" with "I don't know, god did it that way" . I think everybody can see how this is not a good thing.

But that's the point you don't know whether God exists or not either way therefore you may as well just believe he does. It will be the same scenario either way in that you believe something you can't know, so which belief do you prefer?

Or you can take an intellectually honest third option like me, admitting that I don't know, and until something really big changes, I can't know. So I might as well not let it command my life in way religions do.

I just mean we all believe what we were influenced via our society and upbringing to believe what we believe and atheism is as much an influence as any religion. Once you understand that you then can choose what you would like to believe rather than what you think you should ought to believe. I'm perfectly happy to admit that it is possible that God doesn't exist, there are even non-theistic religions such Buddhism and Jainism so it is something to consider.

Again, there are other alternatives. I was raised on neither theist or atheist upbringing, but was led to use my brain and make up my own mind instead of being fed dogmas. And so I did.

[Himster]

You replaced God with baseless scientific assumptions which are not based on any known facts.

Name them.

I would argue that all this has a basis in a purpose made design of which we are a small part.

You have no evidence for that claim.

You however will say the universe here because it is and we are here because it's a pure coincidence and there is absolutely nothing of any significance behind this just atoms and space.

No you're just ****ing lying.
This isn't even the first time. Your argument is completely retarded and pathetic. You just invent a position that you don't agree with and then apply that position to anyone who disagrees with you. No I do not say the "universe is here because it's all coincidence." I have never said that only you have said that.

Neither of us has any proof to back either of our claims we are making but the claim

You're ****ing lying again.
No, only one of us is making a claim: you. Support your claim or quote my claim, if you can do neither it'd be best if you just be quiet.

But that's the point you don't know whether God exists or not either way therefore you may as well just believe he does.

That is not how knowledge works. There is no evidence either way of Neil Armstrong's tea-pot orbiting the third largest sun of Jupiter "therefore we should just believe" anyway. That's such idiocy I can't think of a an insulting word in the English language that can impart the frustration I feel at reading this drivel.

It will be the same scenario either way in that you believe something you can't know, so which belief do you prefer?

Reality has nothing to do with what we prefer, we can only operate based on data, without data, without cold hard facts all we have is our imaginations, good luck unraveling the mysteries of the universe with nothing but your imagination.

There is equally as much integrity in a belief in God when you don't know yourself. I'd argue there is more integrity but that's my opinion lets just say they're equal.

There is no integrity in believing a claim for lack of a better idea (to paraphrase you), that is the action of a catamite or a slave or an imbecile.
The only kind of theist with integrity has to have received personal-special-divine-revelation, all other theists believe without a single shred of proof and cannot claim to have intellectual integrity in any meaningful sense of the word.

I just mean we all believe what we were influenced via our society and upbringing to believe what we believe

We always have the option of rejecting a belief when it is far-fetched/retarded/unsupportable etc.

and atheism is as much an influence as any religion.

You keep claiming this and you have yet offered no evidence, you've not yet offered a single "atheistic doctrine" that you keep claiming exist, you're just not making sense and as I said before out-right lying.

Once you understand that you then can choose what you would like to believe rather than what you think you should ought to believe.

What we should believe is infinitely more important that what we want to believe, you must be trolling.

[Scruff Dog]

Look basically there are essentially two types of belief basis you can have.

1) One that you feel compelled to believe because you simply think it's true without question.

2) One you choose to believe it.


I have the second kind of belief myself and all I would argue is that when it comes to God the second kind of belief is perfectly valid. All I have done is attempt to explain why I think God is rationally valid given the facts we actually know for certain. But when people are as set in stone in their minds as the atheists on here apparently are then there is no reasoning with them. Personally if I wanted to be an atheist, or a Muslim as is the subject of this thread then I could do that and that is what you should be capable to do as a freethinker as atheists like to label themselves. If you can't do that then you are indoctrinated or a fundamentalist. That is my ultimate argument in support of faith when nothing else will get through. If you decide atheism is what you personally want to believe then good enough for me. If you're lucky then that may be true, who knows? A faith is a faith.

[Sar1n]

I've chosen not to have any belief regarding god(s). And I don't give a damn about what other people believe, as long as it does not affect anyone but the person believing it.

My problem is with religions, because they can only exist on propagating a belief, thus stepping over the line.

[Hobbes]

But that's the point you don't know whether God exists or not either way therefore you may as well just believe he does.

Hello Scruff Dog. You cannot prove that I am not God, so you may as well believe that I am: I am God. Bow before me and PM your credit card number, I need it for divine wonders and ****.

[ptoss1]

What do Islams do for fun?

[squirel]

What do Islams do for fun?

What is islams?

[squirel]

What do Islams do for fun?

What is islams?

[Nesimî]

I like ping pong.

[Aeneas Veneratio]

Look basically there are essentially two types of belief basis you can have.

1) One that you feel compelled to believe because you simply think it's true without question.

2) One you choose to believe it.


I have the second kind of belief myself and all I would argue is that when it comes to God the second kind of belief is perfectly valid. All I have done is attempt to explain why I think God is rationally valid given the facts we actually know for certain. But when people are as set in stone in their minds as the atheists on here apparently are then there is no reasoning with them. Personally if I wanted to be an atheist, or a Muslim as is the subject of this thread then I could do that and that is what you should be capable to do as a freethinker as atheists like to label themselves. If you can't do that then you are indoctrinated or a fundamentalist. That is my ultimate argument in support of faith when nothing else will get through. If you decide atheism is what you personally want to believe then good enough for me. If you're lucky then that may be true, who knows? A faith is a faith.

So, ultimately you got no arguments to support anything?

[The Kybrothilian]

What do Islams do for fun?

Pretty much the same things as others, except drinking and "parties".

I play video games all day.

[Himster]

Look basically there are essentially two types of belief basis you can have.

1) One that you feel compelled to believe because you simply think it's true without question.

2) One you choose to believe it.

Neither of those are valid. All beliefs should be subject to constant review, thinking something is true without question is a religious position and choosing to believe something in spite of the evidence is also a religious position.

I have the second kind of belief myself and all I would argue is that when it comes to God the second kind of belief is perfectly valid.

In what way is believing something in spite of the evidence valid?

But when people are as set in stone in their minds as the atheists on here apparently are then there is no reasoning with them.

If you had some evidence to support your claims you would convert all reasonable people to your world view, obviously.

Personally if I wanted to be an atheist, or a Muslim as is the subject of this thread then I could do that and that is what you should be capable to do as a freethinker as atheists like to label themselves.

What you have described there is double-think, not free-thinking. In many ways double think is the exact opposite of free-thinking. You seriously need to re-read 1984, you will gain fresh insights into the nature of religion and indoctrination.

If you can't do that then you are indoctrinated or a fundamentalist.

You are seriously claiming that the inability to hold a position (due to lack of evidence) is actually because of indoctrination or fundamentalism?
Are you insane? This is utter nonsense, beyond Orwellian nonsense, this is in a league of it's own. You should write a book: "Big Brother strikes back"

That is my ultimate argument in support of faith when nothing else will get through. If you decide atheism is what you personally want to believe then good enough for me. If you're lucky then that may be true, who knows? A faith is a faith.

Lucky?
That's how you base your understanding of the universe? Just blind luck?
No no no no no no no no no no no: knowledge/beliefs must be based on evidence, otherwise they aren't worth the paper they're not printed on.