Black Egypt?

[Dan113112]

From what I know the Egyptians weren't a black people. However, I keep hearing this theory in "documentaries" on the subject as well as online. What are your thoughts on this as well as other theories like black Carthaginians and black Phoenicians? I've seen Egyptian artwork clearly depicting them as not being black. Why are people still perpetuating this?

Also, can you point me to any good books about bronze age history?

[Brivime]

Afrocentrism isn't really popular outside of African American communities, the Phoenicians for sure were not black. The actual theory of Afrocentrism is that we were all originally African (black) and then white people came about through genetic mutation or some other nonsense.

We know that Nubians were used in the Egyptian army and were fierce warriors and some of them probably settled in Egypt. There is no actual evidence to back up any Afro-centrist theory and most of them use fake images darkened by Photoshop (like egyptsearch and realhistoryww).

[JPrice94]

Africans with albinism carry mutations that cause them to produce no or very little melanin in their skin. These people run a much higher risk of developing skin cancer than do normal africans. In fact, the risk is so high that many of them develop life threatening skin cancers before and during their reproductive years. 90% of albino individuals living near the equator in Africa will die in their 30s or before, mainly because of skin cancer. Basic evolutionary fitness at the end of the day. Similarly, dark-skinned individuals living in high latitude regions are at higher risk for diseases caused by deficient or insufficient vitamin D levels.
So.. White in the north, Black near the equator..
You have to also remember these were vast scales of time, with thousands of generations. There were 30,000 years between homo sapiens migrating into Arabia and homo sapiens migrating into east asia.
The egyptians in particular migrated from Arabia, which gives them their, brownish, white look. Question answered?


Source- I is scientistic

[Dan113112]

Afrocentrism isn't really popular outside of African American communities, the Phoenicians for sure were not black. The actual theory of Afrocentrism is that we were all originally African (black) and then white people came about through genetic mutation or some other nonsense.

We know that Nubians were used in the Egyptian army and were fierce warriors and some of them probably settled in Egypt. There is no actual evidence to back up any Afro-centrist theory and most of them use fake images darkened by Photoshop (like egyptsearch and realhistoryww).

I know Afrocentrism isn't very popular outside of African American communities or even the United States. What puzzles me is why they even bother doing what they do. They even seem to think that there is a single black race when various black skinned peoples vary greatly in genetics.

Africans with albinism carry mutations that cause them to produce no or very little melanin in their skin. These people run a much higher risk of developing skin cancer than do normal africans. In fact, the risk is so high that many of them develop life threatening skin cancers before and during their reproductive years. 90% of albino individuals living near the equator in Africa will die in their 30s or before, mainly because of skin cancer. Basic evolutionary fitness at the end of the day. Similarly, dark-skinned individuals living in high latitude regions are at higher risk for diseases caused by deficient or insufficient vitamin D levels.
So.. White in the north, Black near the equator..
You have to also remember these were vast scales of time, with thousands of generations. There were 30,000 years between homo sapiens migrating into Arabia and homo sapiens migrating into east asia.
The egyptians in particular migrated from Arabia, which gives them their, brownish, white look. Question answered?


Source- I is scientistic

It makes sense. Lighter skinned people evolved to live in places in the North. Darker skinned people evolved to live in Southern places.

[JPrice94]

I must clarify that I maintain africa was the birthplace of humanity, and depending on where we migrated, darker skinned or lighter skinned people were able to survive and re-produce more successfully near the equator and further north respectively. The earliest homosapiens indeed had dark skin, rich in melanin. But we're going way off topic, I just wanted to clear that up. Yes we all came from dark skinned humans, as the earliest human remains are in africa around the equator, specifically ethiopia, and if they were white then they'd die of skin cancer.

[Dan113112]

I must clarify that I maintain africa was the birthplace of humanity, and depending on where we migrated, darker skinned or lighter skinned people were able to survive and re-produce more successfully near the equator and further north respectively. The earliest homosapiens indeed had dark skin, rich in melanin. But we're going way off topic, I just wanted to clear that up. Yes we all came from dark skinned humans, as the earliest human remains are in africa around the equator, specifically ethiopia, and if they were white then they'd die of skin cancer.

Evidence points to the idea that Africa was certainly the birthplace of our ancestors at the very least. For example, some human cousins and ancestors evolved in Europe. These species were probably killed off by other humans or interbred with them.

What this topic is about is Afrocentrism. My question is why do African Americans that follow Afrocentrism preach things that academics know aren't true. Such as the idea that the core of the ancient Egyptian poplation was black or negro. There is ancient Egyptian artwork that depicts Egyptians fighting Nubians for example. The Nubians are clearly black. The Egyptians clearly are not. Although there may well have been black Nubian rulers in Egypt's late history.

[JPrice94]

I don't really know much about afrocentrism. Why don't afrocentrics focus on the equally impressive nubians/aetheopians, because we know they were actually black.

[ABH2]

What this topic is about is Afrocentrism. My question is why do African Americans that follow Afrocentrism preach things that academics know aren't true. Such as the idea that the core of the ancient Egyptian poplation was black or negro. There is ancient Egyptian artwork that depicts Egyptians fighting Nubians for example. The Nubians are clearly black. The Egyptians clearly are not. Although there may well have been black Nubian rulers in Egypt's late history.

Afrocentrism stems as a backlash against what many (particularly African Americans) see as a Eurocentric view of history. I like to be blunt - of all the continents, we have the least documented history on Africa, and people don't really think of advanced civilization (in the European sense) Sub-Saharan Africa is brought up. It's the same as any other bastardized form of history we have seen. It's about using it to enhance a form of ethnic identity. By claiming the accomplishments of the Egyptians as those of BLACK Africans (they emphasize that first part), they can then argue that by extension blacks played a large role in the development of western civilization.

It is, essentially, a byproduct of a people sold from their homeland and used as slave labor in a foreign land where the majority had a different skin color. Now, everyone who advances Afrocentrism isn't actually American, but that is where many of the followers come from. European colonialism also plays a role.

Afrocentrism isn't the only slant on history that attempts to twist facts to fit a modern agenda, though.

[lilalex20]

I don't really know much about afrocentrism. Why don't afrocentrics focus on the equally impressive nubians/aetheopians, because we know they were actually black.

Because having ones culture stripped by people who for 400 years enslaved your ancestors, beat, raped and many other atrocities, often pisses people off to the point where they claim things that are not true. Being part black myself I understand the sentiment of claiming Egyptian culture as purely African with little to no white people involved. However it wasn't the case. I believe (my personal beliefs) that it was a multiracial society. Most see movies like Exodus or Moses and feel insulted that there are white guys playing a people who most likely weren't white or freaking welsh for that matter. Most African Americans know nothing bout their roots except they were sold in Africa, most don't even know or admit that they were sold by other Africans. I don't agree with afrocentrism anymore than I do with eurocentrism, but automatically denying a race its history for a few centuries then expecting them not to believe that a great civilization on a continent of which their ancestor were taken from didn't belong to their race, is stupidity. I don't blame the Afrocentrics for saying ancient Egypt was a black society (it certainly was not just white nor did it have people that looked like freaking welsh leading it), but most Afrocentrics say that the Greeks and Emperor Severus(spelling?) were black also.

Some do look at Nubians too, but there aren't that many resources for the common man to read or look into. Once again you have to remember that you're dealing with a cultural group (I am specifically talking bout african americans, people that I tend to talk to on different forums and throughout my life) that most of the knowledge of their ancestors beaten out of them for over 400 years.

Sorry if this wasn't very structured or made sense, sensitive topic.

[lilalex20]

Afrocentrism stems as a backlash against what many (particularly African Americans) see as a Eurocentric view of history. I like to be blunt - of all the continents, we have the least documented history on Africa, and people don't really think of advanced civilization (in the European sense) Sub-Saharan Africa is brought up. It's the same as any other bastardized form of history we have seen. It's about using it to enhance a form of ethnic identity. By claiming the accomplishments of the Egyptians as those of BLACK Africans (they emphasize that first part), they can then argue that by extension blacks played a large role in the development of western civilization.

It is, essentially, a byproduct of a people sold from their homeland and used as slave labor in a foreign land where the majority had a different skin color. Now, everyone who advances Afrocentrism isn't actually American, but that is where many of the followers come from. European colonialism also plays a role.

Afrocentrism isn't the only slant on history that attempts to twist facts to fit a modern agenda, though.

Also this is how a smart person would say the things that I tried to say lol sorry for the double post

To add on, I do hope this mod shows some degree of African culture in not just egypt but the Nubian kingdoms and such. I may not have a degree in this sort of stuff(yet), but come on throw us a bone lol

[Brivime]

We doing every region on the vanilla campaign map so that would include Kush/Nubia.

You can see the culture map here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-Modification

[Apollyon]

Kush and Nubia were black. Egyptians were certainly dark skinned, but not black. Very closely related to Berbers, Nubians and the native Canary Island population.

The latest scientific publishing's on the issue studied mummies from 806 BC and 124 AD. Maternal lineage was from Western Asia (Arabia, Levant and Mesopotamia).

However the population in Upper Egypt is probably a hybrid of Western Asian and Nubian/Kush.

[Aswani]

I think it's pretty ignorant to refer to the ancient Egyptians as white or black.
Pretty much every mural, depiction, or colored statue they produced over their 4000+ years of sovereignty had their men shaded in the same color of brown.
They were clearly a colored people, not white or black ....

...That being said, what is your definition of black...

[Spartan198]

Sorry, posted in the wrong topic.

[PunitorMaximus]

yup, agree, they had just more melanin than europeans and less than subsaharan africans. like every ing person on this planet ever. there are no races or colours, just different shades of brown and physiognomic peculiarities ^^

[Brivime]

Top right is stereotypical Egyptian 'nuff said.

[Ahiga]

Top right? You do know that famous depiction is depicting the Nubians in the top-left, "Asiatics" (Canaanites and such) in the top-right, Egyptians in the lower-left, Libu in the lower-right? The top right has the typical levantine tassled kilt and the hairstyle of the region.

[Brivime]

Top right? You do know that famous depiction is depicting the Nubians in the top-left, "Asiatics" (Canaanites and such) in the top-right, Egyptians in the lower-left, Libu in the lower-right? The top right has the typical levantine tassled kilt and the hairstyle of the region.

Top right man, not depiction.

[Ahiga]

Oh right then. Bottom left seems like what I've heard some accounts of the northernmost Nubians being - know there's some Egyptian depictions that differenciate between red skinned nubians (aka like the Egyptians) and black skinned Nubians.

[Dan113112]

I think it's pretty ignorant to refer to the ancient Egyptians as white or black.
Pretty much every mural, depiction, or colored statue they produced over their 4000+ years of sovereignty had their men shaded in the same color of brown.
They were clearly a colored people, not white or black ....

...That being said, what is your definition of black...

I don't think I referred to them as white. Afrocentrists refer to ancient Egyptians, or any prominent African civilization, as a black civilization. As in sub-Saharan. I know that area encompasses many shades/colors of people. When I mean black I mean sub-Saharan.

yup, agree, they had just more melanin than europeans and less than subsaharan africans. like every ing person on this planet ever. there are no races or colours, just different shades of brown and physiognomic peculiarities ^^

It isn't just a difference in the amount of melanin or visible physical features. There are genetic/biological differences that give advantages and disadvantages to various groups.

Top right is stereotypical Egyptian 'nuff said.

Are you saying it is correct or incorrect? I don't quite follow you.