The original thread

[Crociato78]

And speaking of Bretonnian knights on foot.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Normally I'm against adding in units without a listing in an official army book, or non-official in the case of a few armies which don't have official books, but it makes sense considering we have sieges. These just need to be made expensive enough and rare enough (low refresh rate) to not be abused and used as the main infantry of a Bretonnian army.

Good job! Compliments!

[Julianus Flavius]

All the export_descr_sounds_ files in data and everything in the sounds folder.



Hardcoded maximum of 99 mounts. We currently have 6 spots left. That includes everything classed as an elephant, so if we want Salamanders or Razordons, Ripperdactyls or Terradons, Bull Centaurs, Hippogryphs, Reiksfart's Colossal Squig, Carnosaurs, Razorgors, and Horned Ones, we'll have to do some dark magic.

Makes sense. If possible (And I have no idea if this is within the realms of possibility) could you make some of the Lizardmen monsters technically count as infantry? By that I mean, for example, a unit of Salamanders act like infantry, but have a model of a Salamander, so they don't count as a mount? I think gblin spiders would be especially good at that, as they will be able to climb ladders, which would be cool for spiders. I mean, Kroxigors are pretty big and they are infantry, so why not do that for other medium sized monsters and leave the mounts slots for the biggest ones only.
I only suggest this as the Lizardmen basically rely on monsters to make their army interesting. It's basically the main drawcard of the faction.
And speaking of lizardmen, with the Slaan can I suggest that they be a one man infantry unit instead of a war machine? Like the greater daemons. Or is that taking a mounts slot? It's just that it's weird that the big old frog itself is basically unkillable but yet they can be eliminated by taking down all the temple guards they go with.

[Ulfgard the Unmaker]

Maybe you could reinstall 1.0 and the 1.01 patch and keep your game saves, as long as you didn't modify any files yourself. There's no self destruct, or less comically, file switcher in the mod files that could be running rampant. And if an antivirus was going to go haywire, it'd probably eat the 4gb patch.exe and warhammer.bat files, not anything else. Hopefully reinstalling will fix it. You can just drag and drop them over your existing folder and it should add any missing files without removing your saves.

Alright. Thanks for the advice. Probably won't get around to it for a while, but thank you for your thoughts and the solution.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Thank you @TheEmperor that's exactly what was showing up in my M2 Steam folder when i clicked on properties.

Did you apply the 4gb patch, and are you running it through the .bat?

Makes sense. If possible (And I have no idea if this is within the realms of possibility) could you make some of the Lizardmen monsters technically count as infantry? By that I mean, for example, a unit of Salamanders act like infantry, but have a model of a Salamander, so they don't count as a mount?

Possible, but that could be hard to balance and they might not work right.

I think gblin spiders would be especially good at that, as they will be able to climb ladders, which would be cool for spiders.

They would stop having riders, would push siege equipment, would probably crash the game when charged... but maybe theoretically almost possible.

I mean, Kroxigors are pretty big and they are infantry, so why not do that for other medium sized monsters and leave the mounts slots for the biggest ones only.

All the medium sized humanoids are infantry already. Giants can apparently be turned into infantry well enough, according to Reiksfart, but that takes a lot of balancing work, too.

I only suggest this as the Lizardmen basically rely on monsters to make their army interesting.
It's basically the main drawcard of the faction.

Not that much, actually, compared to other factions. More than The Empire, sure, but not compared to Greenskins.

And speaking of lizardmen, with the Slaan can I suggest that they be a one man infantry unit instead of a war machine? Like the greater daemons. Or is that taking a mounts slot? It's just that it's weird that the big old frog itself is basically unkillable but yet they can be eliminated by taking down all the temple guards they go with.

Greater Daemons are elephants, not infantry, so you're looking at a mount with invisible riders. There's no such thing as one man infantry. If we make Giants infantry, then you're going to have 10+ man units of Giants, no getting around that. The Slann being made into an elephant would mean having it charge into melee like the Greater Daemons do, or at least like the Steam Tank, all of which take mount slots, which the Slann currently does not.

There's plenty of things that could be changed to be done a different way, but a better way is a lot harder to find. Anyway, making room for a bunch more mount slots then running out of unit slots wouldn't amount to much. We just need to weigh the pros and cons of everything we want to add, and which things we'll want to cut, so every faction gets a good balance of units.

Alright. Thanks for the advice. Probably won't get around to it for a while, but thank you for your thoughts and the solution.

All I could think of, hopefully that fixes things when you try it.

[warl0rd13]

Isn't Sauron in TATW a one man infantry unit? Also I think it's possible for a infantry unit to hit multiple units, they just have to be big enough.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Isn't Sauron in TATW a one man infantry unit? Also I think it's possible for a infantry unit to hit multiple units, they just have to be big enough.

Nope, he's an elephant. For bonus fun, to get an elephant to show up as a single "man" you have to turn them into an elephant cannon type, which will crash sieges if they don't have a projectile added. That's why for a long time in TATW they'd say not to use him in siege battles, and also why our Bloodthirster has a projectile he almost never shoots. And extra bonus fun, one "man" elephant units in campaign apparently will turn into 3 after about 10 turns or so, and the only way to fix it that they've found is to have a script that keeps removing and respawning them every few turns, the last I checked. Super bonus fun, the only way to have elephants in sieges used properly by the AI is to have every unit in the EDU setup properly for Germanicu5 ReallyBadAI, and run RBAI of course.

It's all very tricky trying to manipulate the engine to do things it wasn't intended to do and still have a fun balanced game.

[logan93]

that is really a bunch of work!
I was asking myself if hexwraiths wouldnt be better off with the normal skeleton horses instead of the black knights ones since imho armor doesnt fit theyr concept very well. The would look more slender and spooky :3

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

that is really a bunch of work!
I was asking myself if hexwraiths wouldnt be better off with the normal skeleton horses instead of the black knights ones since imho armor doesnt fit theyr concept very well. The would look more slender and spooky :3

Try it and see. Just open export_descr_unit and find "Karshtain mount", then change "Armored skeleton horse" to "fast pony". You'll probably agree that it looks really weird, and they need the black cloth draped over them like the tabletop unit has. What that would mean is making another mount just for them, with black cloth instead of black metal, which of course uses a mount slot. Another example of the tricky balance trying to squeeze as many awesome things in as tightly and efficiently as possible. Two examples, actually, since "fast pony" is a mandatory mount name, now used for all the regular skeleton mounts.

[logan93]

wow it actually look pretty weird! Black knights horses it is then xD

[icenii]

@WhiffOfGrapeshot

yes i applied the 4 gb patch, I have Steam and had already created a Kingdoms.exe previously and the patch worked and created a backup of both the kingdoms and med2 .exe, i have also tried running it through the .bat file and directly through steam using the launch options.

[Julianus Flavius]

You clearly know a lot more about modding than I do, so sorry if my suggestions are... ridiculous haha

Not that much, actually, compared to other factions. More than The Empire, sure, but not compared to Greenskins.

But when it comes to the Lizardmen, they have a total of 5 units in their army book that aren't characters, monsters or cavalry (Skinks, Chameleon Skinks, Saurus, Temple Guard, Kroxigors), as opposed to that are (Stegadons, Cold Ones, Terradons, Ripperdactyls, Razordons, Salamanders, Carnosaurs, Troglodytes, swarms and Bastiladons) and practically all of their war machine roles are instead filled by monsters. They have no catapults, cannons or any of that. While the Greenskins do have quite a lot of monsters too, they do not rely on them for everything except infantry and cavalry. The Empire in this mod have been fleshed out very well (I'm not actually complaining about that, by the way) but that seems to have come at the detriment of other factions.
I mean, the Empire gets to have their rockets, cannons, about 10 Knightly Orders, regional troops that, while present in the canon are not in the army book, and I can't think of a single unit from their army book that is not present, except for Franz's dragon and the engineer's mechanical horse.

bleh... I feel like I'm being too negative Sorry... I hpe I'm at least not being too annoying.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

wow it actually look pretty weird! Black knights horses it is then xD

Yeah, it's not perfect, but it looks good and only doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it.

@WhiffOfGrapeshot

yes i applied the 4 gb patch, I have Steam and had already created a Kingdoms.exe previously and the patch worked and created a backup of both the kingdoms and med2 .exe, i have also tried running it through the .bat file and directly through steam using the launch options.

Are you playing short campaigns? Only play long, short is bugged. Other than that, possibly turning the graphics quality down, or running the game in windowed mode at your screen's resolution could help. That last part is done by opening the Configuration.cfg file that's in the folder with the .bat as a text file and changing the parts under video to say the following, but switching the "1280 720" part to what your computer is set to:
windowed = 1
borderless_window = 1
battle_resolution = 1280 720
campaign_resolution = 1280 720

You clearly know a lot more about modding than I do, so sorry if my suggestions are... ridiculous haha

No, suggestions and ideas are good. If we were afraid of ridiculous ideas we'd never have ended up with Lustria in a Call of Warhammer submod.

But when it comes to the Lizardmen, they have a total of 5 units in their army book that aren't characters, monsters or cavalry (Skinks, Chameleon Skinks, Saurus, Temple Guard, Kroxigors), as opposed to that are (Stegadons, Cold Ones, Terradons, Ripperdactyls, Razordons, Salamanders, Carnosaurs, Troglodytes, swarms and Bastiladons) and practically all of their war machine roles are instead filled by monsters. They have no catapults, cannons or any of that. While the Greenskins do have quite a lot of monsters too, they do not rely on them for everything except infantry and cavalry.

That's true. We do want to try to do them more justice with their monsters. Honestly our main problem is not having the models for them, since we have only one person making our Lizardmen models. The Salamander and updated Stegadon are partially finished, but I don't know when they'll be ready. For things like Carnosaurs, Bastiladons, Terradons, etc., there's no good models available unless someone makes them. For now we're trying to be careful with our few remaining slots to use for the best things possible, which is why we're not filling them with easier to make stuff right away.

The Empire in this mod have been fleshed out very well (I'm not actually complaining about that, by the way) but that seems to have come at the detriment of other factions.
I mean, the Empire gets to have their rockets, cannons, about 10 Knightly Orders, regional troops that, while present in the canon are not in the army book, and I can't think of a single unit from their army book that is not present, except for Franz's dragon and the engineer's mechanical horse.

There's a few reasons for that. One is The Empire was the focus in CoW, and taking up 10 factions, so naturally needing lots of variety. Another is that they're just humans, the models were available, the vanilla Med 2 animations could work, and the engine and AI were designed for them, so making Empire stuff is really really easy by comparison. I could make a mechanical horse tonight without much issue, because it'd just be reskinning a regular horse, while making a Carnosaur would be a big big job, beyond my capabilities to do alone. And I don't want to cut any of the Knightly Orders and regional troops if we can keep them, since that's what gives the Empire factions all their flavor, and all the work that went into making them.

bleh... I feel like I'm being too negative Sorry... I hpe I'm at least not being too annoying.

Nah, you're fine. Everyone has their own vision of things. When I tell you why I don't think something would work, it's just based on my experience with modding and how I think it'd come out. It doesn't mean an idea is bad, or even that it couldn't be made to work well, since I'm far from infallible.

[Julianus Flavius]

I'd honestly be in favour of placeholder generic dinosaurs or whatever being used for the Lizardmen, simply for the sake of game balance. As it stands they struggle to stand up to the late game armies of almost everyone unless you can spam skink priests. I don't say this lightly, as I can see you guys are comitted to high quality models and high quality mod in general, but I think the faction simply doesn't work well at the moment.
If nothing else, maybe make the razordon a stand in ballista? It'd kinda suck they won't be able to fight in close combat, but at least it'd be an early game siege weapon (Seeing as the slaan are rightfully hard to get, in fact I think they're basically unrecruitable, something like 50 turns? haha) to make sieges possible. Either that, or use the cannon elephant coding to get a giant bow for the Stegadon, so you can destroy walls and towers.

[icenii]

I've tried both long/short campaigns and already checked the cfg file and noticed that the resolution was different from my native 1 and changed it accordingly, Steam is installed outside program files so that should have helped. I have a fairly powerful PC but I'll try turning the settings down nonetheless . TATW + DaC, EBII, and 1648,and IBII all run fine and very really do i get a ctd from any of them.

[YourStepDad]

So I tried the alternative 1.0 economy script that you've provided, and although better, I must say its still far too easy to swim in money (for Ostermark) that said, Mordheim is a filthy rich town that is too easy to take, making things more easier for Ostermark than they ought to be.

Does that economy file also fiddle with unit stats? As in, reverts them to an earlier version? If I noticed correctly it indeed does, and it feels. Bodyguards are too strong and chaos too weak, whereas in 1.1. it is precisely the opposite, meaning its nearly perfect. (Chaos vs Empire, that is)

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I've tried both long/short campaigns and already checked the cfg file and noticed that the resolution was different from my native 1 and changed it accordingly, Steam is installed outside program files so that should have helped. I have a fairly powerful PC but I'll try turning the settings down nonetheless . TATW + DaC, EBII, and 1648,and IBII all run fine and very really do i get a ctd from any of them.

Maybe a reinstall would help? Is there any pattern to when the crashes happen?

So I tried the alternative 1.0 economy script that you've provided, and although better, I must say its still far too easy to swim in money (for Ostermark) that said, Mordheim is a filthy rich town that is too easy to take, making things more easier for Ostermark than they ought to be.

Mordheim is intended to be a cashcow spot due to the Warpstone deposits. That's how it's been since CoW, and the only role the city could possibly have going by lore, since it was destroyed by a Warpstone meteor long before our campaign start. What could possibly be done is making Mordheim rebels a much tougher rebel subfaction. Otherwise, it'd just need to be removed.

Does that economy file also fiddle with unit stats? As in, reverts them to an earlier version? If I noticed correctly it indeed does, and it feels. Bodyguards are too strong and chaos too weak, whereas in 1.1. it is precisely the opposite, meaning its nearly perfect. (Chaos vs Empire, that is)

Nope, if you open the text file you'll see it's just a list of resources by their internal names and the values they have in campaign, which you can edit by hand. That, and the denari and denari_kings_purse lines for each faction in data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt are the primary things that control income, with unit and building costs, upkeep, corruption rates, and so on changing the expenditures.

Unit stats are changed in data/export_descr_unit.txt which is better explained here http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2t...de/index.shtml

All of these are very straightforward to tweak, so I'd really like to see you try to find your sweet spot, and what you come up with.

[Julianus Flavius]

Well lore-wise, as far as I know anyway, Mordheim is considered cursed beyond redemption. The Empire has no plans to recolonise it, and it's basically been left to vagabonds and mercinaries to plunder. The lengths to which the Empire (Or any other non-chaos faction really) would have to go to to repair it would be so costly that there's no way it would be economically viable. I suggest making it a tradeable resource, or collection of several, to represent various factions sending parties in to "liberate" goods of value, or Warpstone, or whatever. If possible, make it belong to an uncapturable rebel settlement, way off in the corner of the map, so that none of the settlements around it become unrealistically economically powerful, or put maybe three or four resources to represent the city as a whole at the conjunction of three or four regions to spread the trade income around.

[logan93]

no, absolutley not. i want to fight in mordheim

[icenii]

CTD's are happening when i get to the last icon during the end turn sequence, sometimes turning the FOW off can help get past this for an extra turn or 2 but never permanently, I'll just try another install.

[Dani_Madrid]

When I have a Celestial Wizards squad in my army, the game crashes. Another point, is correct that the missile damage for these wizards are 47?? The other wizards have 10...