The original thread

[Metal_Izanagi]

Yeah, even the private server isn't from the original Warhammer Online studio. It's pretty much abandoned. COW has some WO content, and like 90% of The Sundering's assets are from it. It'd be great to be able to use those models, but they're pretty hard to rip from it, and TWC is really really strict about "stealing" other modders' work, even if none of us can truly hold anything remotely resembling a legal claim to any of this in any court in the world, and to suggest so is pretty damn laughable. Still, I don't want this mod getting blocked because we used some stuff from The Sundering and any member of their team decides any amount of their work that went into it can't be shared.

That's actually pretty disgusting, if they're trying to tell other modders that they can't assets that they ripped from another game. Claiming ownership of ripped assets like that is very, very illegal, and should be brought to the attention of TWC's administrators, so that their "ownership" of those assets can be revoked. If the admins here try to say that The Sundering's creators are allowed to claim ownership of ripped models, audio, etc, then they need to be educated a bit on how copyright law actually works, and how enforcing someone's "ownership" of ripped assets is just as crazy as claiming ownership in the first place. It's not asset theft when the assets in question are already technically stolen.

Stuff like this is why most modding sites don't allow ripped content in the first place. It opens the door for things like The Sundering's creators claiming ownership of ripped assets, which is illegal enough that it could get them and anyone hosting their mod in legal trouble. A lot of publishers are willing to overlook ripping assets for mods, so long as you don't claim ownership of the assets. With the assets being ripped, as far as the law is concerned, and thus as far as TWC's staff needs to be concerned if they want to stay on the right side of the law, those assets belong to nobody but the publisher of Warhammer Online. Using them is already a legal grey area, but one that hasn't been tried in court, and is thus usually ignored by publishers for the sake of maintaining good relations with their customers.

TL;DR, if you guys want to use assets from The Sundering, I would bring the whole ripped assets thing to the attention of TWC's staff, and ask them to give permission for other modders to use any assets that can be proven to originate in some way from Warhammer Online, or another product not of the creation of the creators of The Sundering. Not giving permission is saying that it's okay to claim ownership over ripped assets, and that is endorsing behavior that does not fall into a legal grey area, but is in fact very much a criminal offense.

[tyrgalon]

Lizardmen is one of my favourite factions and they always seem to get left out in mods, good to see someone working on them
Will really enjoy the expanded map and less scripted gameplay, having the storm of chaos is nice but it does limit the replayability of the mod :/

[jimbomen95]

Lizardmen is one of my favourite factions and they always seem to get left out in mods, good to see someone working on them
Will really enjoy the expanded map and less scripted gameplay, having the storm of chaos is nice but it does limit the replayability of the mod :/

Yes, I can assure you as a member of the team who is working on this project that Lizardmen (along with the new factions of Wood Elves and Ogre Kingdom) will offer a unique gameplay, mixed between their units roster, mechanic and their own specific soundtrack ( ogres instead use the same of Orcs ), the same also for Tomb Kings ( dark egyptian like music) and Chaos Dwarves/Skaven ( the last 2 have new music instead of those arabic present in the original COW), in general almost the 80% of the tracks that will be present in the submod are totally new ones.
About the scripts we have chose to remove most of them because
1) usually they were responsible of a major instability and cause of ctd on original COW at cause of wrong entries or letters or numbers in the files
2) and as you said limits the replayability, because once you played many times you already know what will happen and how to deal with it
We prefer to have little script and to leave players to choose how to play the campaign with their decisions instead to follow a scripted and specific plot. Only the start of the campaign will show the lore situation of the warhammer world at the start date, but then everyone is free to do what he/she wants on how play the campaign, which i assure will be different everytime you choose a different faction ( maybe at max only imperial factions could be similar in gameplay ) .

[tarenor]

How will you all deal with the skaven/tomb kings/etc's units, as in most of it is in russian and haven't been translated yet. Are you doing translations yourselves as you add the new units?

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

How will you all deal with the skaven/tomb kings/etc's units, as in most of it is in russian and haven't been translated yet. Are you doing translations yourselves as you add the new units?

They're translated. A 99% translation was made available almost as soon as 1.6 came out, by jimbomen95, who commented right above you.

[tyrgalon]

Yes, I can assure you as a member of the team who is working on this project that Lizardmen (along with the new factions of Wood Elves and Ogre Kingdom) will offer a unique gameplay, mixed between their units roster, mechanic and their own specific soundtrack ( ogres instead use the same of Orcs ), the same also for Tomb Kings ( dark egyptian like music) and Chaos Dwarves/Skaven ( the last 2 have new music instead of those arabic present in the original COW), in general almost the 80% of the tracks that will be present in the submod are totally new ones.
About the scripts we have chose to remove most of them because
1) usually they were responsible of a major instability and cause of ctd on original COW at cause of wrong entries or letters or numbers in the files
2) and as you said limits the replayability, because once you played many times you already know what will happen and how to deal with it
We prefer to have little script and to leave players to choose how to play the campaign with their decisions instead to follow a scripted and specific plot. Only the start of the campaign will show the lore situation of the warhammer world at the start date, but then everyone is free to do what he/she wants on how play the campaign, which i assure will be different everytime you choose a different faction ( maybe at max only imperial factions could be similar in gameplay ) .

Sounds like everything that I felt CoW was missing as an option when I first found it

Btw did you translate the tomb kings unit names for the 1.6 beta?
Got Gigantus 1.6 easy install version but seems the tomb king units are still in russian.

[kallaikoi]

Whenever I visit the thread looking for news I feel like... https://youtu.be/rpnewIe5IKs

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Btw did you translate the tomb kings unit names for the 1.6 beta?
Got Gigantus 1.6 easy install version but seems the tomb king units are still in russian.

See the post directly above yours. It's all translated.

[jimbomen95]

Sounds like everything that I felt CoW was missing as an option when I first found it

Btw did you translate the tomb kings unit names for the 1.6 beta?
Got Gigantus 1.6 easy install version but seems the tomb king units are still in russian.

My translation works only for COW 1.6.8, Gigantus 1.6 version is the actual 1.6.10 version of original russian COW, if he had included my translation in his version it will crash because there are new text file that weren't present in COW 1.6.8 , that's why the in his version some things are still in russian. Not worry our submod will be totally in english

[tyrgalon]

ok np, was just wondering if I could get those units name from somewhere

[tomdoof2236]

Got some treemen in the works. need more work with rigging but they look pretty cool.
[IMG] [/IMG]

[Metal_Izanagi]

After doing some tests with the Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss unit, I'd actually like to propose an alternative to how they work, beyond just taking away the piercing property of their shot:

With the way blunderbusses in Warhammer work, you're basically loading a handheld cannon with pistol shot, rocks, broken bottles, rusty nails, etc. Right now, the blunderbusses definitely do way too much damage to multiple units, especially with the way the AI loves to stack their units up in dense formations and wait for you, or charge in a straight line with multiple units. I've used the blunderbuss dwarfs against multiple armies and units in my current Khorne campaign, and I honestly feel like they're actually almost balanced, in a way. Here's how they perform against a few different units:

Chaos Marauders: They shred these poor guys. The Marauders don't have much in the way of armor, and blunderbuss shot does 10 damage. You'll regularly wipe a great number of these poor guys with a single volley, which is admittedly pretty accurate for what a blunderbuss should do to a bunch of guys that wear a loincloth, some leather straps, and an open-faced helmet if they're lucky.

High Elven Archers: Again, they get shredded, for the most part. A bit less so than the Marauders, because they have a tiny bit more armor, it seems.

High Elven Swordsmen of Hoeth: These guys actually hold up pretty well against a vollet or two before they start to go down. The shot will mostly stagger them for the first few volleys, before the next couple actually down some of them.

High Elven Horse Bodyguard: They can take a few volleys before they really start to take any real damage, due to their high armor and the way horsemen formations work.


The ideal solution to the current blunderbuss problem would be if the engine had some way of only letting shots pierce soldiers with less than a certain armor value, so that the shots could punch through say, a bunch of shirtless barbarians, but not through heavily-armored High Elven halberdiers. I doubt that can be done though, so here are some observations, followed by a potential solution:

- The blunderbusses should have the capability to pierce units, because it makes enemy units properly get staggered/disoriented, as a unit should be after getting blasted with a front-line volley of dusted glass, nails, pistol shot, rock shards, etc. I think that was the reasoning behind their piercing property when the original mod's creators put them in; not letting the blunderbuss pierce units makes them just another rifle unit, with a bit of spread. Entirely taking away the ability of a blunderbuss volley to disorient an entire unit like that takes away the entire point of them having blunderbusses in the first place. If you're going to do that, it might honestly be better to just rename them to Chaos Dwarf Gunners and have them use standard rifle shot.

- Currently, Chaos Dwarf Blunderbuss troops, unlike other firearm-equipped troops, do not have the "ap" trait for their gun. This means that unlike every other unit that uses guns, their shot doesn't ignore any of their target's armor. This is why they do much better against zombies, marauders, free company, and other low-armor troops, but actually struggle to make a dent in heavy infantry in comparison.

- Their guns do 10 damage, equivalent to Empire Pistolier cavalry and Empire Marines.

- Current shots per man is 12, equivalent to most other gunner troops

My suggested alternative would be to keep the current unit-piercing effect, lower their damage from 10 to 8, and drop their ammunition from 12 to either 10 or 9, maybe 8 if even 9 leaves them able to cause too much damage as a single unit. These changes should allow them to keep tearing through lightly-armored troops as they're supposed to, while also making them less effective at doing anything but disrupting the formations of heavy infantry.

Another alternative if even that leaves them too powerful is to also make them recruitable less often. Maybe increase the amount of turns between available units by 1/3 or 1/2 if that's not enough, so that there will be less of them in both the player and AI's armies. Even that change will have a pretty solid impact on the campaign, as it will introduce a pretty big gap between even seeing the units on the battlefield.

One more possible change is to also increase their cost in both recruitment and upkeep. A bit gamey, sure, but it will help the AI balance its armies a bit more so that blunderbusses are rare, and it will keep the player from trying to cheese out the AI by spamming them for field battles.(I've tried using Blunderbusses in sieges; I don't recommend it, unless you're defending and have them on the walls.)

One last idea is to increase the spread of their guns a small amount, so that they're only useful in very close quarters. Right now, the blunderbuss unit can hit guys at a pretty decent range. Increasing their spread, while also making the change to their damage mentioned above, might also make them a bit less silly.

right now Chaos Dwarf Blunderbusses are broken, and are way too effective for their cost; that much is undeniable. They're not as broken as some say, though. Yeah, if you have them fire at a bunch of low-cost infantry that the AI loves to spam out in huge stacks, they're hilariously effective. That's why I'm suggesting dropping their damage two points and lowering their ammunition so they have fewer volleys. We want them to tear through low-armor units; that's their role on the battlefield, and taking that away wouldn't be right. But we don't want them annihilating heavily-armored knights and halberdiers on their own; blunderbuss shot should for the most part ping off of plate armor, and just knock some of the troops around a bit and maybe give them a concussion so that you can charge your own infantry into them while they regain their bearings.

In addition, similar changes might be relevant for sorcerer units, which are in my opinion much more broken than even Chaos Dwarves. They have a lot less men per unit, sure, but having a single sorcerer unit annihilate an entire army is a bit silly at times. Either lowering their damage a bit, or taking away some of their ammunition, might be a good idea. They have high upkeep, but they're still waaay too good a turning a battle into a complete slog, particularly for an attacker in a siege.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Can you try doing some tests after making some of those changes yourself? Testing is pretty time consuming, so it'd be a big help if you could find a good balance that actually works.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Ha! Those treemen are fantastic!

[tarenor]

They're translated. A 99% translation was made available almost as soon as 1.6 came out, by jimbomen95, who commented right above you.

So it doesn't work with the current version, the one that released 1/13/16? which is the one I have. if it does, can I get a link please I'd love to get more practice with the new version before this nirvana (end times) releases! thanks!

[tarenor]

My translation works only for COW 1.6.8, Gigantus 1.6 version is the actual 1.6.10 version of original russian COW, if he had included my translation in his version it will crash because there are new text file that weren't present in COW 1.6.8 , that's why the in his version some things are still in russian. Not worry our submod will be totally in english

Sorry I'm still kinda confused, i have english from the most part, but it's left over from 1.55 I believe, Like reikland is mostly all english, even the sounds, but the new events and such from 1.6, tome kings, skaven, etc etc are all russian, thanks for the replies and help!

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

This thread is about the Beginning of The End Times submod, which is in English. If you'd like to talk about English translations for other versions of COW, please open a thread for it.

[tyrgalon]

I was talking about translations because apparently Jimbo had made a almost complete translation of a 1.6 version, and I happened to be talking with him here
The cances of me making a new thread and Jimbo somehow finding his way there is rather unlikely

[kallaikoi]

Got some treemen in the works. need more work with rigging but they look pretty cool.
[IMG] [/IMG]

"Crusade called! Broccoli has commissioned a holy Crusade against this settlement and urged all followers of a healthy and balanced diet to join."






Just a little joke. They're taking shape in a good way!

[tomdoof2236]

Lol, "Broccoli is life, broccoli is death" I can imagine the look on the poor guys face after he realized he tried chopping down the wrong tree.