The original thread

[Gigantus]

I haven't dug through the whole thread, so forgive me if the answer is apparent: will this be based on a 'provincial campaign' principle (new map) or will it overwrite the base installation ('world' folder)?

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Quick question:

Will you be removing all of the other faction's unique units from the other factions of that race's roster, e.g. removing Reiksguard from Stirland, removing Khorne Bloodletters from Slaanesh, in Custom Battles and multiplayer? It always kind of irked me that all of the Empire factions had the same rosters (why are the White Wolves in Talabecland's armies?) and the same goes for the other races and that Nurgle would be using Flamers and Screamers.

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I haven't dug through the whole thread, so forgive me if the answer is apparent: will this be based on a 'provincial campaign' principle (new map) or will it overwrite the base installation ('world' folder)?

It's a separate install, like your version, with everything in the base world folder. Nothing to stop anyone from having COW, RoDG, and BoTET all installed.

Quick question:

Will you be removing all of the other faction's unique units from the other factions of that race's roster, e.g. removing Reiksguard from Stirland, removing Khorne Bloodletters from Slaanesh, in Custom Battles and multiplayer? It always kind of irked me that all of the Empire factions had the same rosters (why are the White Wolves in Talabecland's armies?) and the same goes for the other races and that Nurgle would be using Flamers and Screamers.

Yes, already done for the Chaos factions, and it's soooo much cleaner. All red Khorne units for Khorne. The Empire we haven't restricted all the factional units yet, since some are attainable in the campaign, but I'm sure we could cut some down too, so each Empire faction is different in custom battles.

[Gigantus]

It's a separate install, like your version, with everything in the base world folder. Nothing to stop anyone from having COW, RoDG, and BoTET all installed.

Separate, as in new folder installation? That's good news. Watch out for massively over-sized texture files from the original strat models (up to 16Mb) as well as battle models (up to 25MB).

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Separate, as in new folder installation? That's good news. Watch out for massively over-sized texture files from the original strat models (up to 16Mb) as well as battle models (up to 25MB).

Yeah, the mod folder is COW_Beginning_Of_The_End_Times. And thanks, good catch with those textures. This mod was started right after the first 1.6 public beta version came out, so we do want to cross check your fixes as well as what the COW team has come up with in their latest release to make sure we have everything as optimized as possible.

[Klierowski]

Amazing guys! woud love to play it allready maybe some beta-test's? ^^

[Javesh]

Hey guys,
New unit coming, hope you'll like it.

Wow! If you keep this quality up, then you guys will rival TW:W

[Gigantus]

Yeah, the mod folder is COW_Beginning_Of_The_End_Times. And thanks, good catch with those textures. This mod was started right after the first 1.6 public beta version came out, so we do want to cross check your fixes as well as what the COW team has come up with in their latest release to make sure we have everything as optimized as possible.

I am working to integrate the latest release into my build (roughly 140MB of added\edited files), hopefully by mid week I have straightened it out and tested enough to release - the campaign script needs a bit of work. Another tip: use consolidated pic directories in the EDU, that will save about 400MB disk space. And scour the directories for files with Cyrillic characters, it tends to mess up installers on systems that can't handle it.

Edit: and cut down on the folder name length, that tends to really mess up battle model attachment paths. We had some serious problems in EBII that way, I think it starts when the total letter count of the full path exceeds 128, curiously it's only with the attachments, nothing else. You have a large number already to start with if it is a steam installation. (Long live custom installation from disk! eg C:\Games\M2TW)

[Smurfferdid]

I'm sorry to essentially double post, or call attention to my own post, but I'm fearful that my comment was buried due to a long approval and a new page starting, and that my question would never be answered, so here it is again just in case it had gotten completely overlooked.

I know you guys are swamped with questions, but one thing I'm curious about and haven't seen spoken about in the thread (it's possible I didn't look hard enough) is the subject of stability? I only just recently got in to CoW, I got it working and everything, but it seems me and quite a few other people have/had issues with it crashing very frequently on the campaign map. Most turns I got through in a row before a CTD was 15. I'm not asking for support since I looked through all of that already and did all the fixes I could (trust me), so I've just come to accept that it's a very complicated mod and these things are inevitable, especially since there are so many scripts running. Important thing is that the autosaves still work so I never lose much progress.

I'm rambling so I guess my question is: will this standalone submod improve on the stability? Are crashes currently frequent? Is it one of your priorities to remove or prevent crashes? Sorry if this has been asked before, this is seriously one of the things that kept me from fully enjoying CoW and has led to more than a few discontented sighs interrupting the fun, and this mod shows so much promise so it would be a crying shame if it suffered from the same plague.

[OhHaiEmma]

Any chance we might see the Beastmen their own playable chaos faction?

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

I am working to integrate the latest release into my build (roughly 140MB of added\edited files), hopefully by mid week I have straightened it out and tested enough to release - the campaign script needs a bit of work.

Awesome, that sounds great. The campaign script for our version is obviously a lot different, and much much smaller.

Another tip: use consolidated pic directories in the EDU, that will save about 400MB disk space. And scour the directories for files with Cyrillic characters, it tends to mess up installers on systems that can't handle it.

I did the merc folder thing back in September, based on how you did it in the 1.5.1 RoDG install. It helps. And yeah, cutting all the leftover Cyrillic, even stuff that doesn't show up in-game.

Edit: and cut down on the folder name length, that tends to really mess up battle model attachment paths. We had some serious problems in EBII that way, I think it starts when the total letter count of the full path exceeds 128, curiously it's only with the attachments, nothing else. You have a large number already to start with if it is a steam installation. (Long live custom installation from disk! eg C:\Games\M2TW)

That's true. None of the team has run into it saying anything is too long when dropping the mod into the mods folder, but COW_BoTET or something like that would work just to make sure it never becomes an issue.

Any chance we might see the Beastmen their own playable chaos faction?

Nope, not in this mod. They can be made playable in 1.5.1 and 1.6 just by opening descr_strat and moving egypt from unplayable to playable with the other factions. They weren't very fun to play as. In this mod we've used all the faction slots to bring Bretonnia, Ogre Kingdoms, Lizardmen, and Wood Elves into the game for the first time, and Beastmen are part of the Chaos factions, in the same way there's no separate Warriors of Chaos and Daemons factions. There's a decent chance we'll end up including a few Beastmen characters for the Chaos factions, and you'll definitely be able to raise armies full of Beastmen units.

[Ajpav]

Edit: and cut down on the folder name length, that tends to really mess up battle model attachment paths. We had some serious problems in EBII that way, I think it starts when the total letter count of the full path exceeds 128, curiously it's only with the attachments, nothing else. You have a large number already to start with if it is a steam installation. (Long live custom installation from disk! eg C:\Games\M2TW)

Gigantus - are you stating that it is only a problem with the "attachments" for units? (as in the files in - ex:data/unit_models/units/warhammer/empire/model/attachmentsets)

Or

as a general-rule-of-thumb?

I'm sorry to essentially double post, or call attention to my own post, but I'm fearful that my comment was buried due to a long approval and a new page starting, and that my question would never be answered, so here it is again just in case it had gotten completely overlooked.

"I'm rambling so I guess my question is: will this standalone submod improve on the stability? "

That is one of the main goals of this mod is to improve stability!
(as Stated in WhiffOfGrapeshot's awesome intro-graphic on the 1st page

[Gigantus]

Gigantus - are you stating that it is only a problem with the "attachments" for units? (as in the files in - ex:data/unit_models/units/warhammer/empire/model/attachmentsets)

It is only a problem with the length of the path to the attachments (including the file name). We didn't experience problems anywhere else.

Example
Underneath is the length of a path to an attachment right now without the path to M2TW and it makes me nervous - I am quite positive that reducing the path length will reduce battle crashes. I am just not willing to do the necessary changes as they involve a huge time investment and will make updating from patches an undertaking of nerve testing proportions. If you start a stand alone mod then you may want to look into this issue.

133 Medieval II Total War/mods/Rodg16/data/unit_models/_Units/warhammer/Chaos/model/Officers/Lords/textures/Tzeent_general_normal.texture

My suggestion would be to reduce the path thus:
Medieval II Total War/mods/Rodg16/data/unit_models/_Units/[unit_name]/att/[file]

You may even go shorter and put the attachment files into the unit's folder or have a dedicated attachment folder like vanilla had (because of use by multiple units)

[Smurfferdid]

That is one of the main goals of this mod is to improve stability!
(as Stated in WhiffOfGrapeshot's awesome intro-graphic on the 1st page

Oh gosh I feel like a fool. How did I miss that?


My apologies for crudding up the thread.

[Flam]

Is the Ork Shaman in the mod too?
(Slaans are the most powerful magician unit in the game so i can't imagine it's powers) i tremble ! damn it looks amazing
PS: if the light wizards of the tabletop game are gonna be into the mod, what power will they have?
or the ice queen from Kislev

[WhiffOfGrapeshot]

Underneath is the length of a path to an attachment right now without the path to M2TW and it makes me nervous - I am quite positive that reducing the path length will reduce battle crashes. I am just not willing to do the necessary changes as they involve a huge time investment and will make updating from patches an undertaking of nerve testing proportions. If you start a stand alone mod then you may want to look into this issue.

Yeah that makes sense. It's some work, but we've (well, tomdoof) already optimized the bmdb quite a bit with things like the redundant Chaos units (Like Marauder Axe Throwers of Khorne changed to just 1 Marauder Axe Throwers with Khorne's having the Khorne texture), so if something like that could help, we'll probably go through and fix it.

Oh gosh I feel like a fool. How did I miss that?


My apologies for crudding up the thread.

How did I miss your post twice? Yes, fixing stability is one of our biggest priorities at all times. We've fixed it a lot, and made it worse again, and fixed it again It's just not a really eyegrabbing thing to say "the campaign isn't crashing all the time!" when we can say "look at these sexy new units and map!"

Is the Ork Shaman in the mod too?
(Slaans are the most powerful magician unit in the game so i can't imagine it's powers) i tremble ! damn it looks amazing
PS: if the light wizards of the tabletop game are gonna be into the mod, what power will they have?
or the ice queen from Kislev

Orc and Night Goblin Shamans were already in COW, so yep, they're still here. We're making them a little less of a mega sniper, though.
And we have some new wizards, but their projectiles are not fully 100% completed.

[warl0rd13]

Will we be able to conquer and recruit wherever we want? That was my biggest problem with RotDG, the Orc fortress is right next to one of my major settlements, let me train my soldiers damnit!

[Ajpav]

It is only a problem with the length of the path to the attachments (including the file name). We didn't experience problems anywhere else.

Example
Underneath is the length of a path to an attachment right now without the path to M2TW and it makes me nervous - I am quite positive that reducing the path length will reduce battle crashes. I am just not willing to do the necessary changes as they involve a huge time investment and will make updating from patches an undertaking of nerve testing proportions. If you start a stand alone mod then you may want to look into this issue.

133 Medieval II Total War/mods/Rodg16/data/unit_models/_Units/warhammer/Chaos/model/Officers/Lords/textures/Tzeent_general_normal.texture

My suggestion would be to reduce the path thus:
Medieval II Total War/mods/Rodg16/data/unit_models/_Units/[unit_name]/att/[file]

You may even go shorter and put the attachment files into the unit's folder or have a dedicated attachment folder like vanilla had (because of use by multiple units)

Gigantus,

As always - thank you for your amazing insight and specificity when answering these modding question - you rock mate!
Perhaps after the initial release we could gather a team and divvy up the work so such optimization can be further completed - as you pointed out, such work is relatively easy to do - it's just that there is so much of it, and if you are 1 character off in the BMDB - well you're screwed lol.

[Smurfferdid]

It's just not a really eyegrabbing thing to say "the campaign isn't crashing all the time!" when we can say "look at these sexy new units and map!"

To be fair, that Slaan is something people can have wet dreams to, so I can understand that.

[OhHaiEmma]

Is the Green Knight of Bretonia going to be a hero unit?