ISIL War in Iraq and Syria

[snuggans]

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/06/thom...l_wrong_again/

Putin proposed creating a coalition, the equivalent of the anti-Hitler alliance, to focus on Daesh, and then focusing in Round 2 on the transition of Syria into a form of decentralized federation of highly autonomous regions—Kurdish, Sunni, Alawite-Christian and a few others—which all work together now.

holy how can we not be in total support of this

Putin has Assad in his top 8 on his myspace page, he could have messaged this proposal to Assad at any moment. the person that has to say yes is Assad. is he going to like Putin's plan of carving up his country into ethno-zones?

Putin is also not following his own plan seeing as he's not focusing on daesh but on anti-assad syrian rebels.

[Basil II the B.S]

Yeah France is in a perpetual state of infighting when the French Revolution began 200+ years ago. Oh wait, it ended.
Libyas transition was never going to be easy. I'd give it a decade or two before it becomes stable.
Iraq is a completely different situation considering we dismantled the entire government structure without any foresight.

Well cute, Europe can definitely handle refugees from the region ''for another decade or two''.
Next please. And of the European variant of possible.


edit: also a French revolution comparison? Seriously? That was an internal matter, here's it's entirely foreign driven.

[Principe Alessandro]

Just throwing it there, what exactly are the European membes here hoping to accomplish by overthrowing Assad?

Because his fall, as seen previously in Lybia and Iraq would turn the country into complete chaos and perpetual state of infighting, meaning that between Syria and Iraq Europe will end up having to swallow 20-30 million refugees.

And realistically, Saudi Arabia won't certainly give up the chance to extend its influence in the region, and that's where the tacit consent of Israel will end. Israel wants the chaos, not replacing a major annoyance with another major annoyance. The Salafi-Zionist version of Molotov-Ribbentrop ends there. There isn't really a Salafi figurehead that will make Israel's bidding once in power. And even if it was, it'd be just to aim for the ultimate target of Neocons, Zionists and Salafis, which is Iran. And good luck with that.

That being said, it doesn't take a genious to see that Assad's fall and the gigantic numbers of a refugee crisis would be followed the complete collapse of the EU, financially and politically, followed by the collapse of its main stakeholders, France and Germany. That's more or less a 20 years worth of regression and another decade of recession.

So, what's your fairytale scenario guys? I'm pointing at Adar, Principe Alessandro, Anna Gein and any other European cheerleader of this insane plan. How exactly removing Assad would bring stability to the region? How do you plan to deal with the astronomic numbers of refugees?

As usual, be careful what you wish for.

You are assuming that Syria could be stabilized thanks to Assad, in reality this war could go on for ten years at least, the Russian intervention is clearly a sign of the weakness of the Syrian regime which is surviving only thanks to the help of Assad's allies.

[Costin_Razvan]

where al-nusra is concerned this is basically baddy vs baddy and Putin is being hezbollah's air force right now. but there are legitimate opposition forces within the rebels fighting Assad's forces

"Legitimate"

Yeah, how about no. Anyone that allies Al-Qaeda deserves a MOAB up their ass.

[Basil II the B.S]

You are assuming that Syria could be stabilized thanks to Assad, in reality this war could go on for ten years at least, the Russian intervention is clearly a sign of the weakness of the Syrian regime which is surviving only thanks to the help of Assad's allies.

What's your scenario though? Assad goes and then....

[Principe Alessandro]

"Legitimate"

Yeah, how about no. Anyone that allies Al-Qaeda deserves a MOAB up their ass.

Not anyway different from a country that allied itself with Nazi Germany, you know not everything is black and white in politics and in war.

What's your scenario though? Assad goes and then....

I don't see a happy ending in the future of Syria, it's clear that the country has become the playground of foreign powers and the Russian intervention has just opened the gates for more weapons and men pouring in to Syria thanks to Gulf endless money, the victory of Assad or of the rebels doesn't matter anymore, I personally support the victory of the rebels just for ideological reasons not because I really think that something good will come from this end.

[Costin_Razvan]

Not anyway different from a country that allied itself with Nazi Germany, you know not everything is black and white in politics and in war.

Should I remind you how the allies treated the countries that allied Nazi Germany? They sure as hell didn't defend that choice.

What's your scenario though? Assad goes and then....

Libya 2.0, but far, far worse. Assad's the only way forward.

[Basil II the B.S]

Libya 2.0, but far, far worse. Assad's the only way forward.

Apparently not for the anti-Assad brigade. I really want to see what are their expectations and how gullibly they can be maneuvered by the Neocon-Zionist-Salafi axis of evil.

[Principe Alessandro]

Should I remind you how the allies treated the countries that allied Nazi Germany? They sure as hell didn't defend that choice.

Well I then assume that you completely approve how the allies treated your country.

Apparently not for the anti-Assad brigade. I really want to see what are their expectations and how gullibly they can be maneuvered by the Neocon-Zionist-Salafi axis of evil.

Yeah more conspiracy theories coming from the same circle of shady far right wings fringe groups, a zionist-salafi axis is quite a feat among the endless fantasies they have theorized.

[Akrotatos]

Well cute, Europe can definitely handle refugees from the region ''for another decade or two''.
Next please. And of the European variant of possible.


edit: also a French revolution comparison? Seriously? That was an internal matter, here's it's entirely foreign driven.

It's funny when people bring up the French revolution and forget that it caused wars and suffering for the next decades and ultimately failed. Also the Frech revolutionS were not partly influenced by religion as the revolution in Syria (and I am talking about the original one. I don't think you can find many rebels fighting for democracy and civil rights nowadays)

I don't see a happy ending in the future of Syria, it's clear that the country has become the playground of foreign powers and the Russian intervention has just opened the gates for more weapons and men pouring in to Syria thanks to Gulf endless money, the victory of Assad or of the rebels doesn't matter anymore, I personally support the victory of the rebels just for ideological reasons not because I really think that something good will come from this end.

Armchair ideologist is an easy profession.

[Basil II the B.S]

Yeah more conspiracy theories coming from the same circle of shady far right wings fringe groups, a zionist-salafi axis is quite a feat among the endless fantasies they have theorized.

Answer the question and don't embarass yourself with retarded comments.

[bigfootedfred]

I'm not saying Putin is the "good guy". There are no "good guys".

Remember this? 2009.



Keep your eye on putin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P1q3IDjBaI


yes, yes. life is all shades of grey..but surely you have some inkling on what kind of man this is?

edit2:

I have managed to navigate all the way back in this thread to before the russian intervention, however i have also lurked for quite some time before that.

Everywhere i look, the messages flood in supporting putin, alot of ordinary people in the uk are under the impression, thanks to the newspapers. that putin is smashing 'isis'.
He's popular just about everywhere it would seem.
Very disturbing.

[Principe Alessandro]

Armchair ideologist is an easy profession.

Better profession than the boring job of Putin bots.

Answer the question and don't embarass yourself with retarded comments.

I don't think that I can answer to a question that involves fantasies such like zionist-salafi axis.

[Basil II the B.S]

I don't think that I can answer to a question that involves fantasies such like zionist-salafi axis.

The question is rather simple: you remove Assad, then what's next?
It doesn't have to agree with my analysis or anything, it's a simple, clearly defined question.
Once again, answer the question an stop dodging with retarded comments.

[Principe Alessandro]

The question is rather simple: you remove Assad, then what's next?

Once again, answer the question an stop dodging with retarded comments.

I don't think that removing or keeping Assad will make a big difference, in both cases there are going to be more refugees fleeing to Europe as war continues, the time that something could be done to fix the situation in Syria has ended and the Russian intervention has just opened the gate for more weapons and men pouring into Syria, the best option was to bomb the regime 3 years ago when it was still possible to end the war with less dead people, less destruction and less refugees.

Now it's simply too late.

[Basil II the B.S]

I don't think that removing or keeping Assad will make a big difference, in both cases there are going to be more refugees fleeing to Europe as war continues, the time that something could be done to fix the situation in Syria has ended and the Russian intervention has just opened the gate for more weapons and men pouring into Syria, the best option was to bomb the regime 3 years ago when it was still possible to end the war with less dead people, less destruction and less refugees.

Now it's simply too late.

So the removal of Saddam and Gaddafi taught you nothing? And it's not like they were even remotely decent people. They were still better than ''democracy'' and ''freedom''.

[bigfootedfred]

Syria's Descent into darkness


This documentary on putin, was made by PBS at the start of the year,

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/putins-way/

[Principe Alessandro]

Syria's Descent into darkness

Syria is the example of a country that is destroying itself, probably in the place of Syria will emerge a territory fractured between different actors ruled by warlords and a caliph and with people living like in the stone age.

[Abdülmecid I]

The Russian campaign clearly intends to help the Syrian government and not only by bombing ISIL, that's too clear for any objective viewer to deny it. That being said, the Russians, at least until now, seem to avoid bombing the most moderate of the islamists, like the Southern Front, and I'm not going to shed any tears, if some Nusra and Army of Conquest militants get evaporated, just like some concerned about the future of Syria posters were not very sorry about the high death toll among the anti-ISIL forces, during the battle of Tikrit.

You are assuming that Syria could be stabilized thanks to Assad, in reality this war could go on for ten years at least, the Russian intervention is clearly a sign of the weakness of the Syrian regime which is surviving only thanks to the help of Assad's allies.

Come on, guys, you keep saying that the Russian intervention will prolong the war, but the truth is that the Syrian government still controlled the majority most of the Syrian arable area, including the greatest cities and didn't suffer any serious defeat since May. Some of you probably got very disappointed, but the Idlib offensive didn't mark the end of the Syrian government, just like the battles in Homs and Lattakia didn't mark the end of the opposition.

there is this claim by the turkish PM.

Claims by Turkish government officials are about as reliable as RT, considering that the AKP government has given support to everyone that dislikes the Syrian government, ISIL and Nusra included.

[bigfootedfred]

Claims by Turkish government officials are about as reliable as RT

Sure, i can agree with that. but i posted it in addition to maps and other sources already posted, showing the targets Russia is hitting.

heres a fresher one.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...argetting-isis

A large majority of Russia’s military strikes in Syria have not been aimed at the Islamic State group or jihadists tied to al-Qaida,
and have instead targeted the moderate Syrian opposition, the US State Department said on Wednesday.

yes it's the US state department. but their position is backed by just about every source i have seen, other than RT.
their primarys are not Isil. It's just a pretext.