Feedback: Rhovanion

[MasterOfNone]

Please post feedback on this faction in this thread. Report things you like as well as things you feel could be improved. Don't be shy. We want to know about everything: visuals, audio, text, lore, models, game play, features, mechanics, unit balance, campaign balance, look and feel, atmosphere, stability, quality, etc.

We are chiefly attending to battlemap settlement models in the run up to the full release, but we can tweak other elements in that period according to feedback we receive in the open-beta stage.

Bugs/CTDs should be reported in the bugs thread, not here.

[Humanoid293]

Only played a few turns in so far on recommended difficulty, then got doubleteamed by Dale and Dorwinion with no hope of matching their armies and gave up.

Things I noticed within those few turns :

- Members of ruling Family do not show their Age in the Family tree ;
- Nobles die like flies in battles . In 2 battles with Dale's armies within the first I think 7 turns, I lost the Heir and his Son , being left with my Leader and one Governor . Since the Governor is not a Family member, Ruling Line is extinct XD . It is of course possible I made a mistake using the Nobles in battle, but Dale's starting Armies are pretty much superior - their Archers slaughter Rhovanion's Scouts after the initial charge in melee for instance, and they come with a lot of those Archer Units to invade - so it seemed to me involving the Bodyguards was inevitable to win at least the first battle . In the 2nd battle, the Heir's so was actually killed while mopping up XD .
- Even after Trade rights and Alliance was established, the Dwarfes killed my Emissary with no apparent reason the turn after ! The TRAITORS ! Please code me a way for being able to punish them...

I can not really say more, since that "campaign" was too short before I gave up. Getting used to the building tree and mechanics will take a few tries and I am sure I will fare a bit better with practice. I will keep restarting Rhovanion and apply what I have learned and keep posting my findings and impressions .

Its a blast anyways ! Thanks again For DoM people !

[Hopit]

Only played a few turns in so far on recommended difficulty, then got doubleteamed by Dale and Dorwinion with no hope of matching their armies and gave up.

Things I noticed within those few turns :

- Members of ruling Family do not show their Age in the Family tree ;
- Nobles die like flies in battles . In 2 battles with Dale's armies within the first I think 7 turns, I lost the Heir and his Son , being left with my Leader and one Governor . Since the Governor is not a Family member, Ruling Line is extinct XD . It is of course possible I made a mistake using the Nobles in battle, but Dale's starting Armies are pretty much superior - their Archers slaughter Rhovanion's Scouts after the initial charge in melee for instance, and they come with a lot of those Archer Units to invade - so it seemed to me involving the Bodyguards was inevitable to win at least the first battle . In the 2nd battle, the Heir's so was actually killed while mopping up XD .
- Even after Trade rights and Alliance was established, the Dwarfes killed my Emissary with no apparent reason the turn after ! The TRAITORS ! Please code me a way for being able to punish them...

I can not really say more, since that "campaign" was too short before I gave up. Getting used to the building tree and mechanics will take a few tries and I am sure I will fare a bit better with practice. I will keep restarting Rhovanion and apply what I have learned and keep posting my findings and impressions .

Its a blast anyways ! Thanks again For DoM people !

Don't keep your weak ass scouts in melee, charge, withdraw, charge.

[Thangaror]

Don't keep your weak ass scouts in melee, charge, withdraw, charge.

Nah, they even suck at this. They take heavy losses on the very instant contact, even when charging from behind. IMHO they need some serious boost, at least a shield.

[Hopit]

Nah, they even suck at this. They take heavy losses on the very instant contact, even when charging from behind. IMHO they need some serious boost, at least a shield.

They may die like rabbits, but they kill a few more when they charge

[Humanoid293]

Don't keep your weak ass scouts in melee, charge, withdraw, charge.

Thanks for the friendly advice. I did that, too . It is as Tharandor wrote. I did type my initial post up in a bit of a hurry and omitted that fact, which ofc has been misleading as I now realize.

When it takes you 3 Units of Cavalry to send one Unit of Archers routing, and after that you have a bit less than half of the cavalry left, but 5 other Units of Archers to deal with...its becoming a bit...difficult . Those Archers being exceptionally good at archery also, and being able to slaughter approaching lightly armored foot from a distance does not really make it any easier to deal with them . If that in effect brings you into a Sitaution where you loose a lot of of your initial and freshly trained troops just to deal with one Invasion, and JUST after you have repelled that and face the 2nd attack from same faction while barely having recovered any, the next neighbour declares War and invades you also....you are in trouble as Rhovanion .

Not even considering the fact that the one settlement where you can even train Scouts - and Rhovanion Archers - is on negative population growth to begin with, and I constantly had to pump out Units against the one, then 2 Attackers. Lost roughly 450 pop within a few turns before I gave up.

But, as I mentioned above : I am sure there is stuff I can do better with experience, and I will see to that .

They may die like rabbits, but they kill a few more when they charge

Thing is...against Archers ???

[webba84]

Rhovanion scouts are bugged and do a lot less dmg on the charge than they should, they will be fixed in the final version.

[Humanoid293]

Ah, good to know ! Thanks webba84 . I am just about to restart Rhovanion, and will see what happens in regards to the intial Invasions when I train a lot more Archers and other foot and less Scouts to meet them.

[webba84]

Rhovanion have a tough campaign at the moment, good luck! We will probably adjust things to make it a tad easier for them.

[Beorn]

Never use Scouts for anything else than hunting down routing enemies.
The tip against enemy missiles is to use your BGs and the Marchwardens against them.
Against superior enemy infantry, your only hope is to engage them with either R. Spearmen or R. Axemen and manoeuvre your Foresters behind them. Those volleyso spears will turn the tide, but you'll have suffered a lot of losses.

The issue with Rhovanion is that your units generally suck. Dale and Dorwinion have better infantry and archers, whereas Dale's high tier cav is really good too. Your only good units are the BGs and Marchwardens (who ain't easy to train, due to the lvl of barracks required) and the Foresters, who are a really specialised unit, a lot like lighter versions of Thyreophoroi from EB. Your infantry especially, can't hold a lineto save its life...

[Humanoid293]

Since webba stated the Scouts do much less dmg charging as they should, I assume they hopefully get some more usefullness in the final release.

Short rundown of what I experienced when I restarted Rhovanion on recommended difficulty:

This time around, I was able to keep Dale from invading me within 2 turns by enforcing the garrison in the north pretty quick . I was then able to muster a small Army to attack Free People in the South ( forgive me, I have not memorized the Settlement's names yet) , who managed to kill about half my Army even though outnumbered 2:1, and using the same trooptypes ( Spearmen, Archers, Axes ) . One Unit of Free People's Rhovanion Archers made 2 of my Spearmen rout....by not engaging in melee, but simply keeping to reload and shoot into them WHILE my Spearmen tried to kill them in melee...which they werent able to do fast enough XD . Is it possible not only the Scouts are bugged, but somethings more are not working as intented with Rhovanion Units ?

Just as I started to replenish those troops, refill the Garrisons which I had depleted a bit to attack the Free People's Settlement, Dorwinion decided to break the Alliance and invaded me with one almost full stack and a smaller Army .The almost fullstack outnumbered anything I could field within short notice by a few hundred, and my troop types were simply no match for theirs .

For the time being, it looks like Rhovanion is not really playable at recommended difficulty . You simply have nothing to withstand the intial attacks of either Dale or Dorwinion - not to mention what happens when both decide to attack you within 1 turn . The Units you can train from the start in the capital, and only with a little delay in the other settlements, simply dont cut it . The starting Armies of Dale and Dorwinion are too numerous and strong types to be successfully held back with what you get as Rhovanion, and you do not have the time to develop to the point where you can train armies that even stand a remote chance of being able to successfully face theirs . Constantly having to train outmatched troops from first 1 , then 2 settlements also does not really help with pop growth .

I will nevertheless restart Rhovanion at least one more time and post up what happens. But before I do that, I will have a quick go at both Dale and Dorwnion, simply because I love their Units already .

[Beorn]

I'm at turn 378 and have conquered Holt, Thrimfield and Mid-Deeping while I have also razed Eodor and Burne. You can't afford to lose Rhovanost or Iath-in-Rhaw, as it takes too much time to redevelop them; Take advantage of Dorwinion's reluctance to train archers (just 1-2 per stack) and Dale's cavalry-light armies.

All my settelements though have less than 1000 population, and Beornings just declared war to me, and if they attack in force I'm dead; I'm lucky that Rhun and Adunabar haven't stabbed me back yet, and my battle ration is 36W-6L,and all of the latter were meaningless skirmishes or fort battles to buy myself more time. It's been a great, desperate campaign so far

[Humanoid293]

Right . Just to check, did you start your campaign with the recommended difficulty ? I am aware I can do a few things differently, thats why I wrote I will give it at least one more restart and also wrote it looks like its not rly playable at recommended difficulty. Didnt say it isnt . Also, I am not using any console commands or anything, am just playing with what the Game gives me .

On my first try, when Dale invaded, their Bowmen, Longbowmen and also Mounted Watch where more than enough to dismantle anything I could muster to try and hold them back. But I think if I succeed taking out their and Dorwonion's starting Armies without loosing too much, and with a little bit different build order in the first 10 or so turns in Rhovanost and Iath-in-Raw, I can see how I may be able to survive the starting phase with Rhovanion and possibly play out a more lengthy campaign .

Why didnt you post feedback earlier on, considering you have played so many turns with them already ?

[webba84]

Because Beorn is wise and knows that first impressions can often be misleading, presumably.

[Humanoid293]

Forgive me if what I wrote isnt meaning - or helpfull . I kindof jumped right in and am applying the method of trial and error . Im doing what I think may work, if it doesnt, I try something else . With Rhovanion, bloody nose seems to come naturally with that approach - at least for me . Which on the other hand is exactly what makes me want to restart them again and try something else . Loving it .

[Beorn]

@Humanoid I played at the Bullroaring, as recommended. In my first attempt I got my arse kicked badly; Here's my initial post in the Beta-testing forum:

Serious question: Has anyone managed to survive as Rhovanion? It's the first time I've lost in a RTW game since I was in middle school, and it's been quite a hit to my manhood and gaming pride

I wanted to see if I could actually survive for some more time; I've spent most of my campaign getting my only big army to lift sieges between Ereb Gobel and Iath-in-Rhaw. Plus, after half a decade around here I'm used to responding laconically, as my co-beta testers can confirm "(not a great attribute for a beta-tester btw)

[webba84]

Your feedback is very handy Humanoid, don't mind my teasing.

The Rhovanion campaign is supposed to be a desperate, bloody, against all odds struggle against superior foes but it is supposed to be winnable too. If it isn't, we will adjust things to make it a bit easier.

[Humanoid293]

So, third restart...

I managed to survive until turn 60, when a series of siege - and fieldbattles with Dale and Dorwinion depleted my armies too much...they simply kept sending half stacks, splinter armies and almost fullstacks like on a pearl string. I had given up my northern Settlement ( dangit, still cant memorize the names...) in turn 1, favouring to capture Mid Deeping within a few turns to buy me some time against the Dale invasion - which worked nice for a little while . It was pretty easy to to develop Mid Deeping into a profit making province, and JUST when I thought I would be able to start building to be able to train troops there - to reduce the constant strain on Rhovanosts and Iath-in-Raw'S population - that series of Battles began .

I did learn it makes a lot of Sense to hire Mercs - Rhovanion Horse men help a lot - but then, since at least one Settlement was besieged while the Army to lift the siege was on the move for at least one turn, income wasnt really high enough at that point anymore to keep recruiting them . I am still under the impression a player is literally getting nowhere really with Rhovanion as it is XD . But I will restart again. See what happens when I dont put so much income into developing a Province for some 20+ turns, but instead use most of that to rack up a nice body of Mercs in my Army...

What was noticeable for me is, since I had learned enough about how to use Rhovanion's troops in the last 2 tries, I did not really have a hard time fighting evenly numbered, in 2 cases even outnumbering Dale and Dorwinion Armies...did not loose a single battle until that dreaded Series XD . So as it looks, the challenge is mostly in finding ways to keep population growing, or at least steady, while being able to muster and maintain military large enough to counter those pesky "neigbours" .

4th restart coming up tonight I think.

[webba84]

Sounds like the main issue is population, do you think you could win it if your population growth was a bit higher?

[Thangaror]

Yes, definitely would. Had the same issue with Dorwinion. High growth rates can be easily achieved (at least for Dorwinion due to the immense trade profits), but even with 3% population growth (at 800 population) it takes three turns to compensate the loss of one unit. Though my mistake probably was to deplete my settlements early and crank up taxes. But for Rhovanion low taxes certainly are not an option.