Representation of Carthaginian Infantry

[TFCAliarcy]

Something that irked me in the main vanilla game is that the Carthaginian roster is geared to have lots of Carthaginian troops, it is my understanding that Carthaginian citizens were rarely in the armies but more so in the navy, and instead used hired foreigners or levied natives. In DEI this also the case as Carthaginian soldiers are some of the best cost efficient units Carthage has easy access to, and whilst it is better as Auxiliaries are available to all factions, I still feel that the core troops of Carthage are what seem to be Carthaginian citizens. Something else I also noticed is that the Libyan Hoplites are not very good units where as it is my understanding that the Libyan Veterans is what Carthage often relied on for their main line. However I am under the impression that the Carthaginian troops are Carthaginian citizens, however if this is not true I would be glad to be enlightened. Also the Carthaginian garrison is still rather weak as the two core units are levy tier spearmen.

[luck_ponte]

Well, it all comes down to the player. Personally, I've never used Carthaginian infantry in any of my (many) playthroughs (hell, I don't even remember going past tier-1 barracks in any game I played), but many other players enjoy using core armies of Carthaginian citizens. In my mind, both ways are viable, but it all boils down, as I said, to player choice. Also, as much as the mod tries to be as authentic as possible to historical record, Carthage was wiped out WAY before the time frame of a campaign's end-game, so the team was open for speculation on how their military system might have evolved, which to me is another layer of awesome.
Also, Lybian troops are very cost-effective in my experience, at least the Thureos and Hoplites, and were my bread-and-butter infantry even post-reform. If you level them and get them geared up, Lybian Hoplites can pack a serious punch even in the late-game, and are more than worth their cheaper upkeep, while the thureos are crazy useful with their speed, javelins and (albeit limited) melee capability, specially against cav. I even come to the extreme of thinking Lybian Hoplites are the best tier-1 Hoplite unit in the GAME. Yes, Carthaginian Hoplites are hands-down the superior unit, but their Lybian cousins are still viable if you are into roleplay. Never tested out their sword variation (I try to stay away from sword-heavy builds) on their early version, but the late version is quite competent for the price, too.
All in all, if your interest is min/maxing your army builds then yes, going Carthaginian core is inevitable, but if your interest is roleplay, between the Lybians, your AOR troops and your mercs you have all the tools you need at your disposal. Hope I helped =)

[Ivan_Moscavich]

The liby-phonecian units are more akin to the veteran Libyan units you were describing.

For every Carthaginian unit in their roster, there is 2-3 variants of Libyan, Numidian, or liby-phonecian to it. I believe this is supposed to represent the more sparing use of Carthaginian citizens as ground forces.

[Daemon_Blackfyre]

Would it make more sense to add a cap to Carthaginian citizen units pre-reform then have the reforms remove this cap. I personally would prefer this, but what do you guys think?

[Ivan_Moscavich]

If you want to cap the number of Carthaginian units you can have in your army, just don't recruit more than what you feel the cap should be.

[SquirrelP0acher]

I noticed the same thing TFC so what I did for my campaign was rename the Carthaginian units to Liby-Phoencian because Carthage also recruited heavily from other Punic Colonies. For example, H'anatim Kan'anim (Carthaginian Hoplites) > H'anatim Lybi-Fynikim (Liby-Phoenician Hoplites)

[Zanze]

As you get further into tech, specifically mercenary cost tech, you will see just how cost efficient mercenaries become. By the time I was getting into the North of Spain and sitting outside Rome, I had at least two full mercenary armies in Spain alone. Not counting how many mercenaries were in my Italian armies. My primary armies were citizen armies initially, but slowly added mercenaries to fill in the slots and just kind of kept them. Mercs become cheaper to recruit/ upkeep than your regular troops. Their spontaneous recruitment is nice, as is the feeling of the ancient way of thought: Gauls for charging, Spanish for charging and skirmishing, Italians and Greeks for holding the lines, Numidians for skirmishing and filling up the ranks... etc.

[TFCAliarcy]

As you get further into tech, specifically mercenary cost tech, you will see just how cost efficient mercenaries become. By the time I was getting into the North of Spain and sitting outside Rome, I had at least two full mercenary armies in Spain alone. Not counting how many mercenaries were in my Italian armies. My primary armies were citizen armies initially, but slowly added mercenaries to fill in the slots and just kind of kept them. Mercs become cheaper to recruit/ upkeep than your regular troops. Their spontaneous recruitment is nice, as is the feeling of the ancient way of thought: Gauls for charging, Spanish for charging and skirmishing, Italians and Greeks for holding the lines, Numidians for skirmishing and filling up the ranks... etc.

I did a campaign as Carthage and found that with the Mercenary general skills mercenaries get very cheap, I also use AE which makes mercenaries much more fun as Carthage. My issue was that Carthage is encouraged (economically) to use the Carthaginian units and my question was whether this was A: intentional, or B: it is supposed to be something else.

[Dresden]

I am pretty sure you can get almost no upkeep mercenaries with the right skills, etc. Or at least someone posted a screenshot to that effect...not that thats a good thing probably

[Maetharin]

I haven´t really payed attention to the carthaginians for quite some versions of the mod, does the CAI actually make use of the mercenary cost technologies?

[Zanze]

I am pretty sure you can get almost no upkeep mercenaries with the right skills, etc. Or at least someone posted a screenshot to that effect...not that thats a good thing probably

You definitely can. I don't get the math on how it happens, but its there.

[luck_ponte]

You definitely can. I don't get the math on how it happens, but its there.

I remember getting 0 upkeep once when my army was in raiding stance once I min/maxed my Generals and armies for Mercenary use, but that was a good while ago