Kingdom of Georgia (info and units)

[Khevsur]

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I edit my paint
high era georgian nobleman with protuberance lamelar armor XIII-XIV century

[WeekendGeneral]

Hi Levan, Thanks for the reply!

Firstly another question for you, you have previously stated that the tadzrelebi were not templars (which I agree with) rather you argue the correct translation is protectors of the palace. What led you to that conclusion? As there are dozens of other mods that argue they were a religious order. In addition I consulted with a number of websites and peer reviewed articles that argue the translation is in fact "people of the temple" this argument is rather the tadzrelebi was first started by an order of Georgian monks in the 5th century. That in later centuries had a military role in defending their monasteries and were not and should not be confused with Templar mythology. Would you like me to link you with some of the articles? Unfortunately they are all behind a paywall. In the mean time here is a website that discusses the argument in greater detail http://www.theknightstemplar.org/tadzrelebi/ I find that is definitely not the most reliable resource but it is the only easily accessible one that I have found.

Secondly, what other references would you suggest? I have found the wikipedia articles of both Military history of Georgia and the History of Georgia that describe the medieval period lack almost any reference. I have read the majority of the published papers of Mamuka Tsurtsumia, (Thankfully I am an alumni of international university that still provides me access to their library database, otherwise it would be very difficult to attain Tsurtsumia's works outside of Georgia) I am aware of his arguments, actually Tsurtsumia I believe may argue that horse archery was never truly adopted by the Georgian military. He states on pg 85 of Couched Lance and Mounted Shock Combat in the East The Georgian Experience that examples of horse archery used in the 13th century and 17th century were exceptions to the use of lance. Additionally your reference to "Cavalry tear-shaped shields, Latin style of sitting on the horse, majority of rider saints depicted with couched lances" seems almost to taken straight from pg 86 of Couched Lance and Mounted Shock Combat. However If you turn back to the final paragraph of pg 85 Tsurtsumia refers to these Icons "...the iconographic material is much more problematic. Since representations of the couched lance are often not impressive artistically, iconographic tradition was conservative...Apart from rare exceptions Georgian Orthodox art failed to avoid this conservatism, maintaining to the end the traditional style of depicting warrior saints" he then argues on pg 86 that the "iconography provides some material for judging indirectly: in spite of its conservative character artists did still represent the almond-shaped shield, the high wrap-around saddle and the stretched-out leg, which unequivocally point to the couched lance combat style". For me this assertion is based more upon assumption rather than fact which doesn't make the best objective history.
Now, just because I find Mamuka Tsurtsumia not an awesome reference does not discredit your narrative. What other references are you using? The case that you have made previously suggests you have read far widely than myself and have a greater depth of knowledge I'd be privilege some of those references with me so that I may also deepen my understanding.

Thirdly, in reference to your disagreement about the Latin involvement did you read the article that I shared? If so what exactly did you disagree with? What it their general assertion or something specific?

I'll answer more of your post later.

Until then cheers!

[Lifthrasir]

In the article linked by WeekendGeneral, it says this:

From other sources we know that the king provided guards for the churches and monasteries.

So, could the tadzrelebi have been a "palace guard" before to become a "temple guard"?
If yes, when did it happen?

[Khevsur]

This is fantasy, Non-historical imitation of the European Templars


Tazreuli (Tazreli) is not Religious warrior and Religious Order!

Tazreuli is Kings Little army , 500-1000 Cavalryman ( aznauri, Young aznauri,chosen Strong warriors )

Tazari=sasakhle (eng. palace)

[Khevsur]

my paint.georgian warrior with rectangular lamelar

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[Khevsur]

svan archers Clothing tips

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and svan clothes colors

[Khevsur]

Spoiler for lots of pics: 

West Georgian Peasants Type - Imeri glekhi - abkhazia, mingrelia, adjaria, guria , laz











East Georgian Peasant Type - ameri glekhi - kakheti,
Kartli

[Tarsman of Ghor]

please dont remove dismounted monaspa lancr unit

[Khevsur]

Tarsman of Ghor

Historically in Georgia monaspa was only 12 century.

[Gigantus]

Moderation request: please put large numbers of pictures into a spoiler - otherwise the page gets stretched for miles. To do so simply go into advanced edit mode, highlight\select the pictures and click the exclamation mark at the bottom left of the symbols. To put text in the spoiler, simply have it look like this: [spoiler=your text here] after applying the spoiler

Spoiler for lots of emptiness: 

You couldn't resist, could you?

























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[Jurand of Cracow]

Two relevant images from the Georgian National Museum in Tbilisi:

[Lifthrasir]

JoC, you definitively needs to use a hosting website (like imgur or flirck) for your pics

Anyway, it confirms the look of some units

[Tarsman of Ghor]

but anyways

[Lifthrasir]

What's the point to keep them if inaccurate, considering that there should be new units and an entire revamp roster?.

[Khevsur]

West Georgian Peasants hats And hairstyles

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East Georgian Peasants hats

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Only Hats!

Colours is Black, Brown, Grey

[Khevsur]

georgian peasants clothes, Please make Without ornaments. This is Festive ornaments and colors, not make sharp colors, Peasant colors is Black, Brown, Grey.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Khevsur]

I think create Georgian mercerany Cavalry - Molashkre Cavalry (shock Cavalry) - like Msakhureuli Cavalry .

main weapon - long Spear, secondary weapon - Straight (Early period) and curved (high and late period ) sword

[Lifthrasir]

@ Khevsur, I've moved your post here as it is more related to Georgia. The other thread is related to mercenaries availability and recruitment and for all of them

[Tarsman of Ghor]

I hope this awesome unit roster will be finished soon

[Khevsur]

Is the news?