Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

  1. #1

    Icon3 Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    There is a belief that the huge plumes sometimes shown worn by Ottoman Janissaries were the invention of a west European artist. Is it so?


    The earliest image with huge plume I have seen is Three Ottoman trumpeters on horseback, by Jan Swart van Groningen, 1526 This is probably not a primary source. Swart is not recorded as traveling further than Venice. He may have put together bits and pieces of oriental information he had e.g. Swart's Mamlukes have a Byzantine shield design and their zamt hats were banned by the Ottomans after their conquest of Egypt in 1517.
    Swart was copied by Hopfer



    Janissary going to war by Nicolas de Nicolay


    Janissary guard by Nicolas de Nicolay

    Nicolas de Nicolay travelled to Istanbul in 1551. His costume plates were first published in "Les navigations peregrinations et voyages, faicts en la Turquie" (Lyon 1567). Nicolay's Ottoman Peyk has a large but not huge plume. Coloured versions appeared in the Italian edition of "Le navigationi et viaggi nella Turchia" by Nicolas de Nicolay, 1577. Nicolay was copied by Vigenere, Bonnart & Knotel



    A Janissary walking, by Melchior Lorck, 1581

    In 1555 Melchior Lorck was assigned to the embassy that the German king Ferdinand I (from 1556 Holy Roman Emperor) sent to the Sublime Porte, the court of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent in Istanbul. The Turkish Publication, as the work is entitled, did not come out until 1626, long after Lorck’s demise.
    There is also a Janissary with smaller plume by Melchior Lorck, 1571. Other soldiers have large plumes, including on shields. Ferdinand of Tyrol held "Hungarian style" tournaments, in which the participants wore Hungarian and Turkish costumes and used sabres to strike off feathers attached to their opponents' helmets and to the apex of their shields. Perhaps this is a copy of Turkish practice?

    Melchior Lorck's depictions don't have anything in particular that looks copied from Nicolas de Nicolay's. Is there any reason his should not be considered independent evidence?

    I have not seen any Ottoman miniatures that show huge plumes in campaign, battle or ceremonial scenes, though some Solaks around the Sultan have large plumes e.g. The Siege of Rhodes, from the Suleymanname, 1588. But apart from ceremonies the Ottomans had parades, where strange things could be seen. The Codex Vindobonensis 8626 of c. 1586 to 1591 includes Janissaries with huge plumes



    There are also Janissaries with ship and windmill headresses.

    and more:




    The Ottomans seemed to like parades, there are entire books devoted to them and they could include "floats" displaying various trades etc.

    It seems to me that these huge plumes did exist, but, they were for parades not every-day wear.

    Anyone have a view on this?

    Druzhina345
    Illustrations of Ottoman Janissaries

  2. #2
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    I have been wondering whether that is an East European fashion; afterall it looks similar as Wing Hussar's wing decoration which I remember was a cultural influence from Balkan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  3. #3
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Azuchi-jō Tenshu
    Posts
    23,463

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    I've also been wondering the same thing. It doesn't seem to be based in Middle Eastern or even Turkic culture, at least in my opinion.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    I have been wondering whether that is an East European fashion; afterall it looks similar as Wing Hussar's wing decoration which I remember was a cultural influence from Balkan.
    The winged hussar helmets show a lot of Turco-Mongol/Islamic influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    I've also been wondering the same thing. It doesn't seem to be based in Middle Eastern or even Turkic culture, at least in my opinion.
    The plums are Turco-Persian:

    Safavid:



    Mughal:

    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #5
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Azuchi-jō Tenshu
    Posts
    23,463

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    See I'm actually wondering whether the Safavids and Mughals were not influenced by the Ottomans in this regard. They certainly were influenced by them militarily so perhaps they went all the way and copied their costumes as well. While plumes in military gear isn't new at all I don't think it has ever been as extreme as depicted in those Safavid/Ottoman era miniatures. Early depictions of Timurids and Arab armies seem to be more utilitarian in their approach. Arabs seem to not have much ornamentation in that way. Turks and Mongols apparently prefer horsehair tassels. Where as depictions of Serbian, Croatian and Hungarian cavalry does seem to display similar use of plumage as the Ottomans.
    Last edited by Lord Oda Nobunaga; January 12, 2018 at 06:25 AM.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    See I'm actually wondering whether the Safavids and Mughals were not influenced by the Ottomans in this regard.
    Maybe, but I'm pretty sure they were using ostrich feathers, which means the practice probably developed somewhere along the Indian Ocean trade routes, so probably not Eastern European in origin.

    Ostrich range:



    EDIT: Unless maybe they were heron feathers, although they don't look like it to me, and the biggest ones definitely can't be.
    Last edited by sumskilz; January 12, 2018 at 06:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #7
    Campidoctor
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,947

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    Ostrich feathers have already been attached to helmets in Africa since ancient times:

    "The history of the birds follows next, the very largest of which, and indeed almost approaching to the nature of quad- rupeds, is the ostrich of Africa or Ęthiopia. (...) Their eggs are prized on account of their large size, and are employed as vessels for certain purposes, while the feathers of the wing and tail are used as ornaments for the crest and helmet of the warrior."
    -Pliny X:1

    Mural from Meroe depicting a variety of subordinated people:
    Last edited by LinusLinothorax; January 12, 2018 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #8
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Azuchi-jō Tenshu
    Posts
    23,463

    Default Re: Ottoman Janissaries with huge plumes

    I think it actually is ostrich feathers for the larger ones. They might also use pheasant feathers. There are also references to heron feathers being used by the Ottomans and Safavids. For example Nader Shah used a black heron feather on his crown. In the Ottoman military a rank could be displayed by the number of heron feathers or by how large the feather was, an ostrich feather in that case.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •