Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 57

Thread: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

  1. #1

    Default Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Hi, I have been curious about how the diplomatic mission outcomes are determined, and decide to examine the relative code. Here is what I find out.

    1. the influence of diplomatic attitude value
    The diplomatic attitude value of the target faction toward the diplomat’s faction would convert to a factor, named A here.
    Attitude value(max=200, min= -200) converts to A(max=0.05, min=0)
    (Note: right now there is a bug, resulting a wrong attitude value being used here. I have managed to fix it ,though.)

    2. the influence of number of cities
    “The number of cities of the diplomat’s faction” divided by “The number of cities of the target faction”, converts to a factor, named B here.
    Result of division(max=5.0, min=0.2) converts to B(max=0.05, min=0)
    (Note: right now there is a bug, causing the result of division always being 1.0. This is also fixed)

    3. the influence of diplomat
    The diplomat’s (gravitas * ambition)(max=500) would convert to a factor C (max=0.05).

    Let D =A + B + C, and there will be 3 partition point regarding D. First (0.15 – D), second (0.8 – 3*D), and third (1.8 – 4*D).
    Next the game will generate a random value between 0 and 1.0, named E here.

    If E is lower than (0.15 – D), the outcome is critical failure. The diplomat will be executed.
    If E is between (0.15 – D) and (0.8 – 3*D), the outcome is normal failure.The diplomat would either be injured or betray you, bringing a factional debuff. The diplomat gets 5 gravitas.
    If E is between (0.8 – 3*D) and (1.8 – 4*D), the outcome is normal success. You get a factional buff or a tribute of 5000. The diplomat gets 10 gravitas.
    If E is above (1.8 – 4*D), the outcome is critical success. You get one city from target faction. The diplomat gets 20 gravitas.
    (If the target faction only has one city, the result becomes normal success.)

    As you can see, even in the best case scenario, D can only be as high as 0.15, meaning the three partition point being 0, 0.35, and 1.2.
    Although execution can be completely ignored, the critical success can never be achieved.
    What’s interesting is that, when I force the outcome to be critical success, I do actually get a city from the target faction, meaning the procedure is in game already.
    The fact that it can be handled but never achievable, is a bit odd. I wonder what’s the reasoning behind this design choice.

  2. #2
    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    7,939

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Its a very nice job you did to dig this out, cause the game never properly tells you. But i doubt there was any actual reasoning behind this. its a terribly designed system where the potential penalty far outweighs the potential benefits.


    Mission succes should depend mainly on gravitas skill, but as it is influenced by a random number, the amount of cities (on which you have no influence) and the pre-existing relationship (the very thing you try to improve), it is another untapped potential of power and politics, among so many others. Even more painfull is how you mention that in two of the three factors, there is a bug.


    I suspect laziness, rather than reasoning is what shaped the design

  3. #3
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    377

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Thank you for finding out about this! I agree - this definitely needs to be reported to CA for them to fix as it's a relatively new feature which is not working as intended.

    Can we potentially completely fix this ourselves, or are some parts of this hardcoded?
    Last edited by Benjin; February 26, 2018 at 08:16 AM.
    3D ARTIST (MODELS/TEXTURES), ANIMATOR, RIGGER

  4. #4

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjin View Post
    Thank you for finding out about this! I agree - this definitely needs to be reported to CA for them to fix as its a relatively new feature which is not working as intended.

    Can we potentially completely fix this ourselves, or are some parts of this hardcoded?
    I'm afraid we can't fix this ourselves by modding, because those are all hardcoded. For now I have to use cheat engine to fix the code for myself.

  5. #5
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,064

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    @ysl

    That's a really good catch. Definitely make a bug report about this on the official forums if you haven't already, hopefully bring it to CA's attention.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Things like this shouldn't be left to mods. This needs to be addressed in the vanilla version. All problems really need to be addressed in the vanilla version.

  7. #7
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,064

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by PFElton View Post
    Things like this shouldn't be left to mods. This needs to be addressed in the vanilla version. All problems really need to be addressed in the vanilla version.
    I agree, stuff like this shouldn't be left to mods (though sometimes modders can get a fix out quicker than a studio.) Hopefully this will have been caught in time and patched in the new patch coming Thursday. If not, hopefully they'll get to it in the next one.

    As for problems, would probably help if we could all agree what they are. Some things people list as problems are really more disagreeing with a design decision (see: Family Tree.)

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon View Post
    ... As for problems, would probably help if we could all agree what they are.
    I hear you, and just started a thread to try and create a landing spot for amiable critique and feedback.

  9. #9
    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    7,939

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by PFElton View Post
    I hear you, and just started a thread to try and create a landing spot for amiable critique and feedback.

    100% legit question. Whats that gonna accomplish 4 years and 3 AAA games later except some circlejerking? We are not gonna see most of those concerns being resolved, just like they havent been resolved in the past 4 years.

    Yes you can argue that not everyone has the same wishes, but some things have been requested more than others. For example, a better AI would sserve more people than female generals
    Last edited by eXistenZ; March 06, 2018 at 06:39 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    100% legit question. Whats that gonna accomplish 4 years and 3 AAA games later except some circlejerking? We are not gonna see most of those concerns being resolved, just like they havent been resolved in the past 4 years.

    Yes you can argue that not everyone has the same wishes, but some things have been requested more than others. For example, a better AI would sserve more people than female generals
    Since the disastrous launch of Rome 2, Creative Assembly has eaten a big slice of the humble pie and I feel goes out of their way to try and communicate with and accommodate we their core consumers. We all have some gripes about this and that, but compared to their contemporaries and leading competitors, I absolutely believe CA has a reasonable DLC policy and a demonstrable desire to improve the AI and depth of their titles.

    EDIT: To point, the Royal Marriage mechanic in the Free-LC/patch is a great mechanic and start of real dynastic interaction. I hope they export it to Attila and Britannia.
    Last edited by PFElton; March 07, 2018 at 08:28 AM.

  11. #11
    Benjin's Avatar Artifex
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    377

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Good news - the diplomatic action bug that was reported here is going to be fixed in the patch tomorrow! Along with a lot of other things as well (e.g. AI pathfinding in sieges - including the notorious lag spikes. Also admirals not being present on ships, Scipio Africanus accidentally being removed from the HatG campaign, Athens not being a Politea government type on start in the GC etc).

    https://www.totalwar.com/blog/desert...ms-patch-notes
    Last edited by Benjin; March 07, 2018 at 09:07 AM.
    3D ARTIST (MODELS/TEXTURES), ANIMATOR, RIGGER

  12. #12

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Those patch notes look awesome.

  13. #13
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,064

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Just came here to post about this, and see someone's beaten me to it.

    And I agree, those patch notes do look very awesome.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  14. #14
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Deep within the dark german forest
    Posts
    8,437

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Send Diplomat fixes:
    Fixed an issue causing the Send Diplomat feature to cause incorrect outcomes that could never result in a critical success. Now with a critical success, the player will get a whole region from the target faction.

    Sounds good.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  15. #15

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus_Iunius View Post
    Send Diplomat fixes:
    Fixed an issue causing the Send Diplomat feature to cause incorrect outcomes that could never result in a critical success. Now with a critical success, the player will get a whole region from the target faction.

    Sounds good.
    .. As in, the whole region will just secede from another faction and join mine?

  16. #16
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Deep within the dark german forest
    Posts
    8,437

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    With critical success yes.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  17. #17

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus_Iunius View Post
    With critical success yes.
    Yeesh... Well I'm certainly more motivated to use my agents now.

  18. #18
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,064

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Quote Originally Posted by PFElton View Post
    Yeesh... Well I'm certainly more motivated to use my agents now.
    It's not agents, it's the Diplomatic Mission action you can send Statesmen on in the Politics screen.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    Ahhh, got it. Thanks.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Diplomatic mission outcome determination

    If anyone has already manged to critically succeed, is it a random region we get?
    All this randomness puts me off so much: random chance at diplomacy, random region, random AI behavior )

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •