Diplomatic mission outcome determination

[PFElton]

If anyone has already manged to critically succeed, is it a random region we get?
All this randomness puts me off so much: random chance at diplomacy, random region, random AI behavior )

I think some degree of randomness is necessary to simulate implications and happenchance of negotiation that could have occurred in real life.

However, some of this feels a bit underdeveloped and unwieldy.

[mmm1234mm]

5 turns as Pergamon after this patch and I want my money back. I literally had to load auto save each turn 5-10 time to get better outcome with diplomatic missions, because inevitably spamming diplomatic missions is the only way.
And what was the point doing this complicated formula if in the end it's a random factor between 0 and 1 that decides if you diplomat dies or succeeds?

[Benjin]

It's not just pure randomness - multiple factors are checked to see what chance your politician will succeed in the mission (e.g. gravitas, ambition, what your current diplomacy value is with the targeted faction, the number of settlements your faction owns compared to targeted faction etc). You get varying degrees of failure and success as well - your guys are probably getting executed all the time because they have an extremely low chance at succeeding with the faction(s) you're targeting due to said factors. Check out ysl's (OP's) first post.

CA should have included a percentage chance of success value next to the diplomatic mission political action button, I think. That would have avoided a lot of confusion.

[Welsh Dragon]

5 turns as Pergamon after this patch and I want my money back. I literally had to load auto save each turn 5-10 time to get better outcome with diplomatic missions, because inevitably spamming diplomatic missions is the only way.
And what was the point doing this complicated formula if in the end it's a random factor between 0 and 1 that decides if you diplomat dies or succeeds?

I kind of feel like this is a player created issue...

Diplomatic missions aren't supposed to be something you spam and save-scum with low level characters until you get the best results. They're something that is another tool in your toolbox, allowing you to send out your experienced Statesmen/Politicians if you want to. You take a risk that the character may fail or even die, but you also have the potential reward of improving relationships, gaining temporary buffs and other rewards, and if you're very lucky even gaining a region. Just like you wouldn't expect a rookie general to be as good as an experienced one with multiple skills, why expect a rookie statesman to be as good as a savvy political operator? You decide whether the risk is worth the reward, much like many other choices you make when playing the campaign.

Also as Benjin said, while there may be a random element there's a lot of different factors at play into whether these missions succeed or fail. Though it's changed since the post was originally made (to address the very issue mentioned there,) as the first post in this thread laid out, character gravitas and ambition, relative sizes of the two factions and the existing attitude between the two factions are all factors at play here.

And Benjin I agree, a percentage chance indicator would be very useful. Hopefully in the next patch (if there is one.)

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon,

[Boicote]

If anyone has already manged to critically succeed, is it a random region we get?
All this randomness puts me off so much: random chance at diplomacy, random region, random AI behavior )

Here:


upload image

In my campaign as Cleopatra (Augustus campaign) I got Cyrene from Antony. This city was isolated from the rest of Antony's domains and was close to Egypt, so it makes sense that "he wanted" to give me that city rather than any other city.

P.S. I only use "cosmetic" mods. They don't change gameplay.

[Benjin]

Here:


upload image

In my campaign as Cleopatra (Augustus campaign) I got Cyrene from Antony. This city was isolated from the rest of Antony's domains and was close to Egypt, so it makes sense that "he wanted" to give me that city rather than any other city.

P.S. I only use "cosmetic" mods. They don't change gameplay.

That's awesome - I never thought of trying to acquire Cyrene that way as Egypt in the Imperator Augustus campaign.

So now we can potentially role-play Cleopatra (a level 3 ambition, high gravitas character - part of a faction who has fewer settlements compared to Antony's Rome and with a very high relationship value with them), to slowly acquire free territory from Mark Antony in the Imperator Augustus campaign through diplomatic actions? Hilarious!

EDIT: Just found out that faction leaders can't be sent on diplomatic missions - that sucks.

[Basil II the B.S]

After a weekend of testing, the system is complete rubbish.

I send a diplomat as Egypt to the Odrysian Kingdom, I receive their only settlement and they disappear from the game. I send another one to Rome, they give me Brundisium, for no good reason other than declare war on me shortly after.

It seems that the top reward is pretty much random without any consideration whatsoever of the strategical impact. Utter nonsense. It seems Rome 2 has become CA's testing ground for their ideas.

[Benjin]

After a weekend of testing, the system is complete rubbish.

I send a diplomat as Egypt to the Odrysian Kingdom, I receive their only settlement and they disappear from the game. I send another one to Rome, they give me Brundisium, for no good reason other than declare war on me shortly after.

It seems that the top reward is pretty much random without any consideration whatsoever of the strategical impact. Utter nonsense. It seems Rome 2 has become CA's testing ground for their ideas.

Got any screenshots from that campaign?

[Basil II the B.S]

I trashed the savegame after the Brundisium episode. Next time it happens (and it will) I'll post one.

edit:

I have a savegame with Epirus when it also happened with Tylis. I sent the diplomat, got their only settlement Antheia.
https://imgur.com/a/ARkWG



That one was bizarre but not overly bad because it's in the rather immediate expansion area. The ones with Egypt were just bland.

[KamenLily]

In my current game got a region. One adjacent to my existing territory. Which was nice.
Good politician!! But had to make her a general, because I needed more armies.

Fast-forward to my current situation, the two which are replacing her are a pair of morons. Failure after failure. I'm using them now to help with the food and public order in newly conquered regions.

[Basil II the B.S]

In general, if you send the diplomat 20-30 times to the same faction, you'll eventually get a settlement from it, no matter how far that faction is. Which unfortunately makes no sense. I miss when you could actually negotiate this kind of things instead of having it random.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

It was not better, you could easily betray the AI in RTW. Paying 500 gold for Korinth, which is much more worth in longterm.

Dont send the statesmen with highest gravitas to a nation with yellow relationship, no critical success possible.

[KamenLily]

It was not better, you could easily betray the AI in RTW. Paying 500 gold for Korinth, which is much more worth in longterm.

Dont send the statesmen with highest gravitas to a nation with yellow relationship, no critical success possible.

I didn't even wanted to get a region. Just wanted to improve diplomatic relationships... I gonna send those two idiots to charge against the whole Gallic Confederation alone.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Yeah, but higher gravitas - yellow relationship - higher chance of critical success. Little tip.

I like games, where you must calculate.^^

[Basil II the B.S]

It was not better, you could easily betray the AI in RTW. Paying 500 gold for Korinth, which is much more worth in longterm.

Unless it was a bug, you couldn't. Especially because Corinth had wonder and the AI wouldn't sell it for any sum. You could bribe them but that's another story.
M2TW was less balanced because the AI would sell castles for peanuts.

However the randomization still makes no sense whatsoever. It allows no rationality, you can spam diplomats, send them around every single turn and eventually get settlements all over the place in exchange of absolutely nothing. Great!

Dont send the statesmen with highest gravitas to a nation with yellow relationship, no critical success possible.

I had yellow relationship with Rome when they gave me Brundisium so that's not true.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

It was not better, you could easily betray the AI in RTW. Paying 500 gold for Korinth, which is much more worth in longterm.

Dont send the statesmen with highest gravitas to a nation with yellow relationship, no critical success possible.

I have highlighted the relevant part to make it easier to understand.

[Basil II the B.S]

Then why did I get the critical success, ie a city, from a faction I had a yellow ​relationship with?

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Don´t send (= do not send ) the diplomat with highest gravitas to a nation with yellow realtionship , (=then) no critical success possible.

[Basil II the B.S]

Phrase it properly next time. Ie: if you don't want to have a critical success, THEN don't send a diplomat to a faction with which you have yellow or higher.

I'm not in your mind, I don't read conjunctions that aren't there.

[KamenLily]

Last night tried starting a campaign with the Iceni to test a little modification.

And my diplomats are even more dumb that the ones in my Kush campaign. Stop getting yourselves killed, you, you, silly diplomats!!
There's any way to have more chances to not fail spectacularly? Maybe I need to raise their gravitas more? I was sending one with 150 more or less.