Global Warming- True or False?

[NineinchNails2010]

Now that the media has gotten bored with the killer swan plauge known as bird flu, we're back to good old climate change to try and scare people. And as normal the 'experts' come out of the woodwork (usually from friends of the earth or greenpeace, not that there bias or anything) and give us more good news.

The first is that no matter what you may hear the world and humanity is screwed and if it isnt the black death in the form of tweety pie, then its the south of france becoming a desert. Naturally the government has stepped in and to reassure us that climate change IS real, they are going to......tax us.

Ooookay so lets have a look at what climate change has acomplished so far; the government gets more taxes and the media gets more viewers/readers etc.

Anything else? Oh yeah the government is trying to get us all saving energy and using less up. Um out of curiosity this couldnt have anything to do with not wanting to rely on Russia for energy could it?

It just seems to me that there is no discussion about this anybody saying 'well maybye things arnt that bad' is labelled as crazy whereas people claiming the world will soon end if we dont turn off our TVs at night are treated as divine law.

[Lusted]

The first is that no matter what you may hear the world and humanity is screwed

I too would wish people would stop saying that global warming will be the end of the world. It isn't. But if it becomes as bad as some top climatologists predict it will be the end of humanity.

Some info from the Us Environmental Protection Agency:

Greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere will increase during the next century unless greenhouse gas emissions decrease substantially from present levels. Increased greenhouse gas concentrations are likely to raise the Earth's average temperature, influence precipitation and some storm patterns as well as raise sea levels. The magnitude of these changes, however, is uncertain.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/

Another useful link on Global Warming(Ocean and Climate Change Institute):

http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/...le.do?id=13366

The CO2 stays in the atmosphere for hundreds of years. So anything we’ve burned in the past up to now is going to be with us for hundreds of years. Eventually, that catches up with us. Even if we were to cut off all CO2 emissions right now, the planet would still continue to warm. So, we do have a substantial commitment to climate change, no matter what we decide to do right now. And then the reality is, of course, it would be very difficult, with the global economy, to stop carbon emissions.

http://www.ipcc.ch/

The Intergovermental Panel on Climate Change(UN organisation)

http://www.ipcc.ch/press/sp-07122005.htm

The Earth’s climate system has demonstrably changed on both global and regional scales since the pre-industrial era, and there is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.

NASA http://wwwghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/ghcc_cvcc.html

The ultimate question is whether our climate is becoming warmer because of the slow build-up in atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations. The answer is not clear, because much of what we know about global climate change in inferred from historical evidence of uncertain quality.

[Rhah]

Very few people still debate the fact that the earth is heating up, because its pretty self-evident. The main debate is whether its a natural process, directly caused by human actions, or a combination of both.

As to your point about government using global warming as a cover to raise taxes and decrease dependancy, I'll have to agree with you. But conversely, if global warming is at least partly being caused by humanity, then any decrease in pollution, whether voluntary or enforced, can only be a good thing for our future.

[turd]

there was a study last year that said sun is causing even as much as 85% of the heating. they tested it in a laboratory.
its naive to think that 150 years of industrialization is the main cause. volcanoes are a bigger culprit.

[Chocolatemouse]

I am amazed that people still think that global warming is a myth or that human activity not have actions over climatic events.
There is of course natural climatic changes , but we have an action over theses events by our industry.
Last year i was doing a search about global warming on google in english.
I was disgusted to see that more than 20 of the first links were directing toward the same site. This site was a fundation of study of climatic changes working with white house and oil companies money. All in it was caricatural, saying that it was no proof of existence of global warming and that trying to do something against would have destroyed economy.
I have today done the same search and i no more see this website.
The time now is no more to debat if a global warming effect exist or not but how we can adjust effect of human activity on earth.
Even if we are in a cycle of natural warming our industrial activity make it growing. The debat between pro earth activists and pro oil lobbies is a caricature. I agree that industry is needed but the problem is that actually for short time profits it is our future that is being destroyed.
Each side have been too caricatural in propositions, it is now time to realism.
Recent studies now show that global warming effect will cost more to economy soon than benefits done by not preventing it. This mean that thoses who want to change nothing for protecting economy are in reality destroying their own business.

Nose kisss

[SickBoy13]

Yes, its real.
The thing is, how to we stop it from happen?
Also, Turd, while the Sun does cause the heat, we cause the deterioration of the Ozone layer, therefore destroying our protection from many of the sun's destructive rays.

[Bwaho]

Now that the media has gotten bored with the killer swan plauge known as bird flu

heh, the funny thing is I had forgotten all about it until you brought it up just now...

The thing is, how to we stop it from happen?

from what I've read scientists believe the earth is getting warmer by natural causes, but that we're speeding up the process... so there's little you can do to stop the earth from getting warmer... unless you want to detonate nuclear weapons all over the earth and cause a nuclear winter.

[danzig]

Real but the issue is what is truly the biggest cause of it and its possible impact and whether we can actually do anything to prevent it. The issue has been so clouded by political nonsense from those who cry the sky is falling we are doomed and those who whistle and go what we me worry when its 71 degrees in NYC....in January (like the other day). Anytime something happens someone cries global warming, when Katrina hit OH NO GLOBAL WARMING is going to destroy us all with hurricanes but yet the following year 2006 saw almost no major hurricanes. In alot of ways the fear mongering/sky is falling and the oblivious/indifference camps of the issue are of more immediate danger then global warming itself because it paralyzes us and prevents us from taking any action or pushes to take overreactive action.

[Oldgamer]

My two votes on this subject:

Is global climate change taking place: Yes.

Is it caused by humans: No.

Human global climate change is a political issue, and is not a scientific one. Its purpose is to shift the wealth ... Kyoto Accords, anyone? ... from the "North" (specifically, the United States), to the "South", the rest of the world. It is global socialism writ large.

The whole debate is so insidious. The global-warming theorists have framed the debate in such a way that, no matter what happens, anyone who disagrees with the theory is "shortsighted". If a heat wave takes place in the summer, when they're supposed to take place, mind you, it's global warming. If there's a blizzard in the winter, it's global warming. If there's a damaging hurricane or a spate of tornadoes, if's global warming. If the weather is mild, sunny, and with beautiful blue skies, it may the the last beautiful day on earth.

Anyone who disagrees with the theory is immediately attacked and castigated. Anyone who denies the human element in the theory is a "moron", and deserves to be ... as Algore recently stated on a History Channel special ... treated like some people are treated in Europe who deny the Holocaust. In other words, if David Irving is jailed for Holocaust-denial in Austria, Rush Limbaugh ought to be imprisoned for "Human -Climate-Change-denial" in the United States.

We ought to be completely candid about Global Warming. It is not a serious scientific issue. The earth's climate is too complex to accurately model through a scientific theory. Global Warming is a political issue. The people who are pushing it have a distinct political agenda, and it has nothing to do with "saving the future".

Of course, if I turn out to be wrong, I'll simply crank up the central air. After all, I am an American ...

[Chocolatemouse]

Actually there is still a debat on if yes or not earth go warmer on natural or not events.
But else in anglo saxon countries ( whith strength of economic lobbies) there is no more debats on if yes or not human activity have a hugeimpact on climatic changes. The answer is yes, human activity destroy the natural regulation systems, 150 years of huge economic activity have been enougth to disturb them.
But more than that, global warming is notthe only threat , we should talk of global impact of human activity over natural systems, the global warming isnot the only thing, another big threat is oceans becoming more acids, this disturbing a huge part of plantonic system.

The solution? More economic regulation, more internatinal colaboration for clean industrial solutions, more punitions for industries and financial corporations who only see short time profits.


Nose kisss

[Lusted]

Is it caused by humans: No.

No one is claiming that, and if they are they're wrong. Scientists are just claiming we are having an effect on the natural process of global warming and that we may be pushing it too far. Normally the process anyway, but we may be pushing it too far, and it will only damage us if it keeps on happening.

[danzig]

No one is claiming that, and if they are they're wrong. Scientists are just claiming we are having an effect on the natural process of global warming and that we may be pushing it too far. Normally the process anyway, but we may be pushing it too far, and it will only damage us if it keeps on happening.

That is the problem, scientist arent allowed to be at the forefront of the issue so while none of them are saying it politicians however ARE and any scientist who includes the word "but" when talking about the issue are quickly being labeled climate deniers and dismissed. The issue has gone beyond the scientific examination of the issue, its causes, what should be done etc and has become a political issue which is essences means it will be screwed up by egomaniacs who just want to use it for their own benefit (Al Gore anyone?!).

[Oldgamer]

The solution? More economic regulation, more internatinal colaboration for clean industrial solutions, more punitions for industries and financial corporations who only see short time profits.

Like I said, the "debate" is political, not scientific.

@Lusted
I've got to spend less time in these forums and more playing mods that have your work in them!

Anyway, if we follow the logic of your statement to its ultimate conclusion, it gives the Algores of the world exactly what they want ... global socialism, via treaties like the Kyoto Accords. After all, we don't want to push this "fragile global ecosystem" over the edge, right?

[Bwaho]

Global Warming is a political issue. The people who are pushing it have a distinct political agenda, and it has nothing to do with "saving the future".

and I suppose the oil and coal companies have no political agenda at all...

Real but the issue is what is truly the biggest cause of it and its possible impact and whether we can actually do anything to prevent it. The issue has been so clouded by political nonsense from those who cry the sky is falling we are doomed and those who whistle and go what we me worry when its 71 degrees in NYC....in January (like the other day). Anytime something happens someone cries global warming, when Katrina hit OH NO GLOBAL WARMING is going to destroy us all with hurricanes but yet the following year 2006 saw almost no major hurricanes. In alot of ways the fear mongering/sky is falling and the oblivious/indifference camps of the issue are of more immediate danger then global warming itself because it paralyzes us and prevents us from taking any action or pushes to take overreactive action.

I totally agree

Of course, if I turn out to be wrong, I'll simply crank up the central air. After all, I am an American ...

yes because it's that simple... it has nothing to do with increased desertification and the many other things that effect the economy, it's only about the temperature in your room.

what should be done etc and has become a political issue which is essences means it will be screwed up by egomaniacs who just want to use it for their own benefit (Al Gore anyone?!).

but Al Gore is totally cereal!

[Lusted]

That is the problem, scientist arent allowed to be at the forefront of the issue so while none of them are saying it politicians however ARE and any scientist who includes the word "but" when talking about the issue are quickly being labeled climate deniers and dismissed. The issue has gone beyond the scientific examination of the issue, its causes, what should be done etc and has become a political issue which is essences means it will be screwed up by egomaniacs who just want to use it for their own benefit (Al Gore anyone?!)

I agree with you partly(though the Al Gore film is really informative, and has a good scientific basis. Be glad Michael Moore hasn't done a film on global warming). The main problem with the whole global warming issue is that if it is as bad as some scientists believe, then we really dont'h ave a choice but to try and cut down carbon emissions as much as possible. Otherwise we're screwed.

But it won't likely be that bad, but it could still be quite bad. Atm doing something is better than doing nothing because if scientists are wrong about global warming cutting our carbon emissions will hopefully have helped us move onto other energy sources than oil(a good thing). But if they are right doing things now will help us in the future.

Anyway, if we follow the logic of your statement to its ultimate conclusion, it gives the Algores of the world exactly what they want ... global socialism, via treaties like the Kyoto Accords. After all, we don't want to push this "fragile global ecosystem" over the edge, right?

Personally my views about global warming and cutting emissions are not about economics or global socialsim, they're about making sure we dont mess this planet up too much otherwise we might wipe ourselves out.

[Chocolatemouse]

Like I said, the "debate" is political, not scientific.

@Lusted
I've got to spend less time in these forums and more playing mods that have your work in them!

Anyway, if we follow the logic of your statement to its ultimate conclusion, it gives the Algores of the world exactly what they want ... global socialism, via treaties like the Kyoto Accords. After all, we don't want to push this "fragile global ecosystem" over the edge, right?

But sadly the deny of human impact over climatic system is political.

I am sick to see references to socialism or else, sometime it gives me the feeling to still be in Mac Carthy era. Yes the debat is political, an over influence of economics and financial lobbies. It is not socialist to ask for regulations, it is just accepting responsabilities.

[Oldgamer]

Lusted,

You've proved my point about the insidious nature of the debate, and that it's completely political. We've got to do something, which is better than nothing, right? There you have the whole argument, in a nutshell.

Bwaho,

yes because it's that simple... it has nothing to do with increased desertification and the many other things that effect the economy, it's only about the temperature in your room.

Of course, it is. I've got to be comfortable.

But I do have an idea. Let's spend the money the GWT's intend to spend "fixing the problem" on air conditioners for everyone!

Mouse

I am sick to see references to socialism or else, sometime it gives me the feeling to still be in Mac Carthy era. Yes the debat is political, an over influence of economics and financial lobbies. It is not socialist to ask for regulations, it is just accepting responsabilities.

Look at the Kyoto Accords and tell me that the whole thing wasn't about shifting America's wealth to other places in the world, Mouse. I've read the thing. Have you?

[Lusted]

Lusted

You've proved my point about the insidious nature of the debate, and that it's completely political. We've got to do something, which is better than nothing, right? There you have the whole argument, in a nutshell.

That is basically the whole argument, and once you have that view, the next step is always going to be political. At which point it gets hijacked by everyone else and used for personal benefit, not overall benefit.

[LoZz]

global warming is but a theory their is no solid proof that the changeing climate is our fault

all we know is that the weather is being a bit unusual

we also dont know what effect this will have on the enviroment, its all predictions, we dont know what will happen till it happens

Yes, its real.
The thing is, how to we stop it from happen?
Also, Turd, while the Sun does cause the heat, we cause the deterioration of the Ozone layer, therefore destroying our protection from many of the sun's destructive rays.

the hole in the ozone layer is shrinking and repairing itself.

[Lusted]

global warming is but a theory their is no solid proof that the changeing climate is our fault

Once again: Global warming is NOT a theory, humanitys effect on global warming IS a theory.