South African 'Redistribution' of White Land

[Aexodus]

https://www.rt.com/business/419543-s...sation-whites/

https://www.economist.com/news/middl...ng-land-reform

With South Africa's new President calling for the seizure of land owned by whites since the 1600s in the country to be given to blacks, and neighbouring Zimbabwe already having hamstrung its own agricultural industry through authoritarian black land reform.

When Mr Mugabe started grabbing white-owned commercial farms in 2000, he destroyed far more than a successful agricultural industry. He also smashed what was once one of southern Africa’s most diversified economies. Mining, tourism and manufacturing all collapsed within a few years.

https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/v...5832125122365/

“The expropriation of land without compensation is envisaged as one of the measures that we will use to accelerate the redistribution of land to black South Africans,” said Ramaphosa, who was sworn into office to succeed Jacob Zuma as president last week.

With a policy bordering on ethnonationalism, it seems hard to justify penalising whites for apparent crimes their great grandfathers made. It ignores of course any 'black-on-black' historical land disputes.

Please share your thoughts.

[Prodromos]

There had been some signs that things were getting better for white South Africans, but apparently not, at least not for the farmers. They're white so no one (except Hungary) cares. It just doesn't fit the narrative.

[Ziltoid]

It is good they got rid of Apartheid, but is the way forward now doing reverse version of it? Zimbabwe has shown enough where that leads.

[NorseThing]

The problem of farming is having farmers who know how to farm modern farms. Without knowledge, bankruptcy follows. The Economist link in the OP made mention of the problem. The article also made mention of the government doing too little sales redistribution and more leasing of the lands which makes it pretty much impossible for the renting farmer to have capital to pledge against loans. Farming in all nations and just is SA is a very capital intensive operation. The Zimbabwe mess was the direct result of not understanding this relationship between capital and production. When you make ownership difficult, you reduce the value of the land. When the land is simply handed out to political friends that will not be directly farming, but hope for tenant farming as in Zimbabwe, the actual farmer has no capital in the game. Peasant farming is so 18th century. Times do change. This reduces the capital the owner has in the game and thus reduces the money banks can safely lend a competent farmer.

[B. W.]

I guess it's time for SA to split up, otherwise this will not end nicely. Most of the blacks in SA did not originate from there and the Boars have a reputation for defending themselves.

They (the native Africans) did this in Rhodesia and turned the place into a hellhole.

[Cyclops]

My South African neighbours tell me the proportion of white people has dropped from 20% to less than 10% of the SA population, and emigration among young whites is continuing. We have substantial former South African communities in Perth (mining town) and Melbourne: there's similar groups in the Isle of Man and London as well.

[Love Mountain]

The problem of farming is having farmers who know how to farm modern farms. Without knowledge, bankruptcy follows. The Economist link in the OP made mention of the problem. The article also made mention of the government doing too little sales redistribution and more leasing of the lands which makes it pretty much impossible for the renting farmer to have capital to pledge against loans. Farming in all nations and just is SA is a very capital intensive operation. The Zimbabwe mess was the direct result of not understanding this relationship between capital and production. When you make ownership difficult, you reduce the value of the land. When the land is simply handed out to political friends that will not be directly farming, but hope for tenant farming as in Zimbabwe, the actual farmer has no capital in the game. Peasant farming is so 18th century. Times do change. This reduces the capital the owner has in the game and thus reduces the money banks can safely lend a competent farmer.

Not really. I haven't heard South Africa suffering from food shortages, their issue seems to be access rather the ability to produce adequate amount of food. The problem with farming is that as farming develops, subsistence farming drops, and far fewer farmers are needed to produce much more food than before thanks to advances in technology and techniques. Currently South Africa has 10% of the population in agriculture, most developed or highly developing countries have that percentage below 5%, that means as South African farmers modernize, become richer, and concentrate the ownership of land, more and more people will be displaced. That's not a good prognosis in a country where a quarter lives in poverty or is unemployed.

[hellheaven1987]

I haven't heard South Africa suffering from food shortages

That is because the option of food importation is still exist.

General speaking the problem of farming by black africans in SA is lack of motivation, capital and skill; apartly SA government thought by dumping land on black africans they would magically know how to manage a farm properly with enough capital to support the operation - in other words, another disaster created by the typical naive attitude of SA government.

[Love Mountain]

That is because the option of food importation is still exist.

General speaking the problem of farming by black africans in SA is lack of motivation, capital and skill; apartly SA government thought by dumping land on black africans they would magically know how to manage a farm properly with enough capital to support the operation - in other words, another disaster created by the typical naive attitude of SA government.

While I don't approve of poor government investment in something as mundane as agriculture, there is no point in growing your own food if its cheaper to import it. Moreover, South Africa is a large grower of Maize and cattle. I don't particularly see a crisis. Quite frankly, these moves by South Africa are a waste of money and time. They would be better off investing in a robust energy sector and manufacturing. South African labor is cheap and its one of the more stable regimes in Africa.

[Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ]

Please share your thoughts.

There was a similar thread about this subject a few months ago... My opinion is the same, there's a time period after which one can't be blamed for something one's ancestor did to someone else's ancestor. And, in these cases, land often is given to someone else who's ancestor wasn't the one wronged by the ancestor of the person whose land is expropriated without compensation.

[Aexodus]

There was a similar thread about this subject a few months ago... My opinion is the same, there's a time period after which one can't be blamed for something one's ancestor did to someone else's ancestor. And, in these cases, land often is given to someone else who's ancestor wasn't the one wronged by the ancestor of the person whose land is expropriated without compensation.

I completely agree with this sentiment. Anything else seems counter-productive to race-relations, and counter to the idea of the 'rainbow nation'.

[athanaric]

There was a similar thread about this subject a few months ago... My opinion is the same, there's a time period after which one can't be blamed for something one's ancestor did to someone else's ancestor. And, in these cases, land often is given to someone else who's ancestor wasn't the one wronged by the ancestor of the person whose land is expropriated without compensation.

Shh, don't ruin their concept of group identity. Having skin colour a means you're owed something, having skin colour b means you owe everyone who happens to have skin colour a. Skin colour c means you can screw yourself, just because. Totally a just concept, no problem there...

[Elfdude]

I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback. I'm reminded of my brother punching me until I was of equal size, punching him back and his tear filled face as he ran to get our parents who laughed in his face.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the least bit moved by the plight of the white community in south africa.

[Aexodus]

Most of the Dutch Boer community settled in SA in the 18th and 19th century. Those people are now long gone, and their descendants are made to bear some kind of collective racial guilt. It is not their fault they were born into say, a white South African farming family, nor is it what the manner of how their family came to possess it was (it wasn't always 'stolen', sometimes it was bought from chieftains who knew no better)

This actual legislation sets a precedent for a group of people to be 2nd class citizens with less rights, because of their skin colour. Show me similar current legislation against other groups, and it's still equally as bad.

Just because they're white doesn't make it okay, so I politely disagree @Elfdude

[Caduet]

I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback. I'm reminded of my brother punching me until I was of equal size, punching him back and his tear filled face as he ran to get our parents who laughed in his face.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the least bit moved by the plight of the white community in south africa.

lol if my sig weren't so awesome i'd make this my sig

[Elfdude]

Most of the Dutch Boer community settled in SA in the 18th and 19th century. Those people are now long gone, and their descendants are made to bear some kind of collective racial guilt. It is not their fault they were born into say, a white South African farming family, nor is it what the manner of how their family came to possess it was (it wasn't always 'stolen', sometimes it was bought from chieftains who knew no better)

This actual legislation sets a precedent for a group of people to be 2nd class citizens with less rights, because of their skin colour. Show me similar current legislation against other groups, and it's still equally as bad.

Just because they're white doesn't make it okay, so I politely disagree @Elfdude

Jee, sounds like the same thing POC have been saying for like two centuries. The funny thing is you can advocate about this, while at the same time post about the significance of the color of someone's skin as a reason why a BBC show shouldn't be made. Your hypocrisy is so rich I don't know what I love more, your white tears or the clearly hilariously one dimensional approach.

[Ziltoid]

I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback. I'm reminded of my brother punching me until I was of equal size, punching him back and his tear filled face as he ran to get our parents who laughed in his face.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the least bit moved by the plight of the white community in south africa.

lol if my sig weren't so awesome i'd make this my sig

Yeah rarely do you get to read something so stupid and hypocritically twofaced.

Whites brought the concept of equality and freedom there to begin with as we know it in modern days (post french revolution and so on), would be otherwise marauding zulu armies or slavery selling tribal chiefs there still without outside influence.

Only because the minority being now unjustly targeted by very unfair policies are white, does he have the balls (since then its politically correct according to current leftist mindset) make such a discriminatory statement. Similar situations done by various cultures worldwide for ages, especially back in those days that colonization of Southern Africa also happened during age of Imperialism. Yet we wouldn't hear him stating that Han chinese deserve to be treated unhumanely and their possessions taken away for treating many other local ethnicities unjustly couple centuries ago or so on. Or that somalis riches should be spread to other africans for participating so long in slavery in Africa.

Or that even islamic culture people deserve all the bad things they have gone through recently, due treating women unequally, unbelievers even worse and everyone who deviates from strict religious conservativism even little. No, that would be politically incorrect and not cool thing to say in his peer group like the above statement pointed against whites.

Can easily show that just by quoting him and changing target:

• clearly if X people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback. I'm sorry, but I'm not the least bit moved by the plight of the X community in Y place.
  

Now i can think of several X's and Y's that would make his above statement pretty damn ugly, stupid and completely lacking any sense of justice or compassion, especially when its about actions of long gone ancestors that go back in history for centuries. This kind of selective hate towards certain people just due their skin color, is just bringing us back to those dark ages of imperialism, rather than taking us ahead as man... wait almost forgot, peoplekind. (almost triggered wild Justin Trudeau to appear there).

Talking about equality while singling out one group that does not need to be treated equally, thats what i call hypocrisy.

[Big War Bird]

I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback. I'm reminded of my brother punching me until I was of equal size, punching him back and his tear filled face as he ran to get our parents who laughed in his face.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the least bit moved by the plight of the white community in south africa.

Sounds like hate speech to me.

[fkizz]

I don't understand, clearly if white people simply made better choices to treat others as their equal there wouldn't be all of this justified pushback. I'm reminded of my brother punching me until I was of equal size, punching him back and his tear filled face as he ran to get our parents who laughed in his face.

I'm sorry, but I'm not the least bit moved by the plight of the white community in south africa.

This could be used for diplomacy classes... on how to not adress ethnic conflicts.

[Exarch]

i just got a q; why didn't the white colonists exterminate the natives as their counterparts in north america and australia did? it's not a difference in culture; they were predominantly anglo cultures in south africa and rhodesia