Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Ludicus]

Through your posts you always talk as if the only responsibility lies on Ukraine

My answer is clear, as you can easily see from what I've already said. Whoever makes the first move is usually the one who is losing the war, as it happens in all wars,

Ukraine floats possibility of inviting Russia to peace summit

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Zelenskiy says 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed since Russia invaded

Who knows... The secret carnage of military losses in Ukraine-Le Monde


Zelensky warns Ukraine faces tough few months as it ...

Which is true. But then he says… Zelensky: Russia preparing offensive for early summer
Given the circumstances, it seems unlikely that it will happen.

[fkizz]

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/it-wil...rs-in-war/amp/

This is coming from a Ukranian source.
Ukraine is said to have lost 500,000 soldiers (killed or seriously wounded), since special military operation/war. Oof!

I'll be generous here.
Even assuming that slightly exagerated or out of context number to be true, how many casualties were necessary for other side? Kremlin doesn't exactly care what the body count is, as was seen in Avdiivka.

Plus one thing is casualties in self defense, another is massive casualties just to annex a small piece of land. When you don't even know what to do with the other massive pieces of land one already owns.

That assuming that theory of historical "slavic brotherhood" said piece of land could be achieved without a single shot fired, but that would require a much more competent staff in Kremlin than there is right now.

Plus the number from what you sourced me:

They put the number of soldiers killed and wounded on both sides since February 2022 at 500,000.

Asides from the obvious, the whole situation is a Zero sum game of loss to any concepts of euro-asia or Kekkonen type of diplomacy and trade, but Kremlin seems to not care aswell.

[Papay]

Ukraine army is on the verge of collapse right now. I predict that Russia will take over the rest of Donbass either by the end of the year or by next. The question is what happens afterwards

[PointOfViewGun]

My answer is clear, as you can easily see from what I've already said. Whoever makes the first move is usually the one who is losing the war, as it happens in all wars,
Ukraine floats possibility of inviting Russia to peace summit

Except we have a party that is not open to genuine peace negotiations. Russia have shown itself to be interested in nothing more than total surrender of Ukraine.

Ukraine army is on the verge of collapse right now. I predict that Russia will take over the rest of Donbass either by the end of the year or by next. The question is what happens afterwards

You have been claiming that since day one of this conflict.

[Alastor]

I'll be generous here.
Even assuming that slightly exagerated or out of context number to be true, how many casualties were necessary for other side? Kremlin doesn't exactly care what the body count is, as was seen in Avdiivka.

Plus one thing is casualties in self defense, another is massive casualties just to annex a small piece of land. When you don't even know what to do with the other massive pieces of land one already owns.

That assuming that theory of historical "slavic brotherhood" said piece of land could be achieved without a single shot fired, but that would require a much more competent staff in Kremlin than there is right now.

That's being generous?
You are saying the Kremlin doesn't care about the body count, implying that is that the Ukrainian presidency does? The same one that kept throwing bodies at the "strategically unimportant" Bakhmut in order to kill a few more Wagnerite ex-cons? The same one that kept arguing with its own commanders about reinforcing Avdiivka even after it was clear it could not be defended? Only to do an about turn of course to save face once even their next military chief, after firing the one before, also wanted out. On the other hand the Russians did withdraw from Kherson, in good order, despite the enormous political cost once it became clear it would be too hard to defend. Either way, even if I was to accept the Kremlin is bad in this regard, I'm hardly convinced that it is uniquely bad. In other words, you are not being very generous here.

Self defense huh? I wonder how the civilians of Donetsk that have been bombed by Ukrainians for over 10 years now, including of course from fortress Avdiivka, feel about this self-defense claim. Remember, you are supposedly being generous here, yet you can't acknowledge this is more than a simple war of conquest.

A more competent staff in the Kremlin? Didn't the Kremlin negotiate 2 Minsk agreements? Everyone keeps saying Russia can't be trusted, yet it was Ukraine and the Europeans that have openly admitted to have bamboozled Russia and negotiated in bad faith. As if that's sth to be proud of. Yeah we tricked those stupid Russkies, that will show them, oh oops they invaded now. Again, I don't see the generosity.

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Whatever the case, I'm too busy laughing at Zelensky's ludicrous claim that Ukraine has only suffered 31k dead. That number is so incredulous I can't believe anyone is taking it seriously. Last I recall Ukraine's has had over 42k confirmed named KIAs, but Zelensky still claims a number lower than the named list. Unless of course he really does only count Ukrainians and not Ukraine's Russian soldiers. Maybe he counts those as Russian losses. That could explain the discrepancy. So yes, Ukraine has only suffered 31k dead, it's why Ukraine has self-admitted personnel shortages and Zelensky wants to mobilise 500k more, to cover for those 31k that died. That Zelensky, ever the comedian.

In other very reliable Zelensky news:
- Russia is about to reach 12 billion dead and 20 billion wounded.
- In the last engagement 5 Ukrainian super soldiers were able to repel a horde of 500 million Russo-orks.
- Last night Ukraine shot down Russia's 10 millionth A-50.
- If those stingy westerners had given us just 3 godzillion dollars more, we'd have taken Moscow by now.
Etc

[Nykyus]

Since the time of Darius I and Attila, people from the East have always invaded people from the West.The West could not oppose anything to the people from the East except a handful of heroes such as the Spartan king Leonidas, the Roman strategist Aetius, who was then treacherously killed by the Roman emperor.
So this time too, the eastern barbarians will succeed and conquer Europe.

[Cyclops]

In other very reliable Zelensky news:
- Russia is about to reach 12 billion dead and 20 billion wounded.
- In the last engagement 5 Ukrainian super soldiers were able to repel a horde of 500 million Russo-orks.
- Last night Ukraine shot down Russia's 10 millionth A-50.
- If those stingy westerners had given us just 3 godzillion dollars more, we'd have taken Moscow by now.
Etc

Well after all, Russia has killed 500,000 Ukrainians, including 1,000,000 Waffen SS, 3 Prigozhins, Poland, the entire SAS, Unit 731 and cyborg Hitler, so its likely they incurred some losses?

The propaganda side of the war is ugly. We don't need to entertain it. Real deaths are atrocious, and the threat to civilians is unacceptable.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Ukraine has kept losing repeatedly this year so that means Russia isn't winning? Someone show me that ing algebraic equation.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Well after all, Russia has killed 500,000 Ukrainians, including 1,000,000 Waffen SS, 3 Prigozhins, Poland, the entire SAS, Unit 731 and cyborg Hitler, so its likely they incurred some losses?

The propaganda side of the war is ugly. We don't need to entertain it. Real deaths are atrocious, and the threat to civilians is unacceptable.

On the flip side the Ukrainians have killed 2 million Russian conscripts, wiped out 5,000 Russian tanks and 669 Russian planes using their HIMARS, including Putin who is dying from cancer.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Well Ukraine has done pretty well resisting Putin this long.

I guess Putin's burner accounts have waited to celebrate for two years, can they wait a little longer? It'd be devastating if they called it yet again and then the deal went through congress.

If it is the end it's because the US decided it was so. It's been heartening to see Putins theives humiliated for so long, less edifying to see Mr Trump and his media allies so keen to further Russian interests.

Remember when that one thief matched on Moscow? And that unsinkable missile ship?

As for Navalny, it wouldn't have been thd first time an imprisoned reform campaigner emerged from gaol. I suspect Putin is close to death or fears defeat so badly he's closing a bunch of accounts. He invades neighbours like a Tsar, he sends people to Siberia like a Tsar, let's see if he can die like Tsar.

LMAO why are you coping? Ukrainians lost Avdievka and Robotyne in the span of a week. Even though Ukrainians spent all of last year charging in and getting slaughtered, while the Russians basically just sat there and gunned them down. Zelensky has been pulling his hair out trying to get new conscripts just to throw them in and get them killed. If Zelensky lasts the year it probably won't be cause he did anything legal to keep his position.

[Nykyus]

LMAO why are you coping? Ukrainians lost Avdievka and Robotyne in the span of a week. Even though Ukrainians spent all of last year charging in and getting slaughtered, while the Russians basically just sat there and gunned them down. Zelensky has been pulling his hair out trying to get new conscripts just to throw them in and get them killed. If Zelensky lasts the year it probably won't be cause he did anything legal to keep his position.

Zaluzhny did not throw a lot of infantry and equipment into Russian positions.He also limited himself mainly to artillery strikes and did the right thing.He did not listen to NATO strategists and would-be advisers who were pushing Ukrainian soldiers to the slaughter.
Ukrainian fighter Artie Green said that in preparation for the onset of the summer of 2023, the Ukrainians underestimated the number of Russian soldiers. At first they thought that there were mobilized people there, that is, people not familiar with military affairs. Meanwhile, Putin said that they had recruited about 500 thousand mercenaries. Russia also began to use new types of weapons, aerial KAB bombs weighing 500 kg.
Western strategists hoped that Russia would run out of shells. Meanwhile, North Korea began supplying Russia with shells. Russia has also increased production of its shells.
In terms of range and accuracy, the French Caesar, the German Panzerhaubitz 2000, and the Swedish Archer are far superior to Russian artillery. But there are clearly not enough shells.
Artie Green also reported that without air superiority, an offensive is impossible.

[PointOfViewGun]

LMAO why are you coping? Ukrainians lost Avdievka and Robotyne in the span of a week. Even though Ukrainians spent all of last year charging in and getting slaughtered, while the Russians basically just sat there and gunned them down. Zelensky has been pulling his hair out trying to get new conscripts just to throw them in and get them killed. If Zelensky lasts the year it probably won't be cause he did anything legal to keep his position.

If only we haven't been watching the opposite of that happening in those two places for the past months. Russians paid an immense price both in soldiers' lives and armor in their efforts to take over those two towns. Who are you trying to fool?

[Alastor]

Well after all, Russia has killed 500,000 Ukrainians, including 1,000,000 Waffen SS, 3 Prigozhins, Poland, the entire SAS, Unit 731 and cyborg Hitler, so its likely they incurred some losses?

The propaganda side of the war is ugly. We don't need to entertain it. Real deaths are atrocious, and the threat to civilians is unacceptable.

Has Putin played the numbers game? The propaganda side of the war is ugly but we are, collectively, entertaining it in the west, by accepting Ukraine's propaganda with little scrutiny that is. I mean wikipedia is yet to acknowledge the Russians won the battle of Bakhmut. That's just embarrassing. Which is why I'm mocking Zelensky, the president, for not only participating in this game, but leading the charge with his ludicrous claims.

[Stario]

If anything (as a non-American viewpoint), this war has proved how irrelevant the US is these days. Their sanctions didn't work, and the US military is just not good enough anymore to beat anyone, even the likes of the Taliban, let alone Russia and China and even Iran as a matter of fact. Currently the US no longer enjoys the military edge it once possessed.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

If only we haven't been watching the opposite of that happening in those two places for the past months. Russians paid an immense price both in soldiers' lives and armor in their efforts to take over those two towns. Who are you trying to fool?

This sounds like a scripted response from Chat GPT. "What are some ways that the Russians lost even though they won? 1. The Russians lost too many men. 2. The Russians lost too much material".

You don't actually know that you are just asserting it. The Russians didn't even assault Robotyne until recently and the Ukrainians were forced to withdraw. There is no way you could have casualty numbers for the Russians in Avdievka. Assuming that the Russians lost a lot of men then we also have to assume that the Ukrainians lost a lot of men. The same thing that was said about Bakhmut yet the Russians are still going. Whatever losses the Russians took they can obviously replace them. In terms of equipment they are outproducing whatever Ukraine gets in aid.

[PointOfViewGun]

If anything (as a non-American viewpoint), this war has proved how irrelevant the US is these days. Their sanctions didn't work, and the US military is just not good enough anymore to beat anyone, even the likes of the Taliban, let alone Russia and China and even Iran as a matter of fact. Currently the US no longer enjoys the military edge it once possessed.

What USA, along with many EU countries, showed is that a giant like Russia can easily be stopped using a much smaller state with proper resources. The West does have the military edge. Any sizeable European country can easily stop Russia. The only issue is being supplied enough. What slowed down Ukraine was not number in soldiers or capabilities but its allies' wavering support for ammunition. You can dance around that all you want.

This sounds like a scripted response from Chat GPT. "What are some ways that the Russians lost even though they won? 1. The Russians lost too many men. 2. The Russians lost too much material".

You don't actually know that you are just asserting it. The Russians didn't even assault Robotyne until recently and the Ukrainians were forced to withdraw. There is no way you could have casualty numbers for the Russians in Avdievka. Assuming that the Russians lost a lot of men then we also have to assume that the Ukrainians lost a lot of men. The same thing that was said about Bakhmut yet the Russians are still going. Whatever losses the Russians took they can obviously replace them. In terms of equipment they are outproducing whatever Ukraine gets in aid.

Russians have been assaulting these positions on a weekly basis for the past months. The sheer amount of footage showing extensive Russian armor and infantry losses paints us a clear picture. Every bit of land Russians are gaining is being paid in steel and blood. Your response merely constitutes an irrational refusal to acknowledge basic facts. Hence, the question; who are you trying to fool?

[Coughdrop addict]

If anything (as a non-American viewpoint), this war has proved how irrelevant the US is these days. Their sanctions didn't work, and the US military is just not good enough anymore to beat anyone, even the likes of the Taliban, let alone Russia and China and even Iran as a matter of fact. Currently the US no longer enjoys the military edge it once possessed.

And as usual, the reality of today paints a different picture. For two years, US weapons have killed hundreds of thousands of Putin's stormtroopers, yet Russia has done nothing directly to stop the US from sending them. Nothing. For instance, Russia has not attacked the logistics centers in Poland that stage the weapons heading into Ukraine.

Putin hasn't followed through on a single threat he's made against US or NATO to date. Not one. And he's never going to. Because unlike the propaganda his lackeys put out, he at least is well aware that the US could end Russia in a week without launching one nuke.

We in the west laugh at Russia's desperation to be feared when they struggle to conquer a nation on their doorstep armed with our surplus gear. Have Russians ever considered having friendly relations with their neighbors? It would be far less humiliating for you.

[Lord Thesaurian]

If anything (as a non-American viewpoint), this war has proved how irrelevant the US is these days. Their sanctions didn't work, and the US military is just not good enough anymore to beat anyone, even the likes of the Taliban, let alone Russia and China and even Iran as a matter of fact. Currently the US no longer enjoys the military edge it once possessed.

This is obviously rage bait but I think it poses some interesting points for consideration nonetheless.

The US military - still far and away the most powerful and advanced in the world, so it’s silly to suggest otherwise. Afghanistan was unwinnable for the same reason a ground war in Iran would be: terrain and ethnic conflict. It is in fact excessive focus on these kinds of wars that now has the US playing catch up for great power competition, rather than a deficit in capabilities. Given enough time, I am confident the USM can complete a retrenchment more appropriate for the realities of Cold War II. This is why Russia and China have a limited window in which to act, and thus we see both becoming increasingly aggressive in their efforts to undermine the global order of the last 30 years before the US can adjust.

Iran - an ethnically divided shadow of its former self that is as hemmed in by religious, ethnic and geographic isolation as it is by anything the US does. In fact; removing the US from the equation altogether would likely leave the Persians at the mercy of an Arab-Turk alignment. Iran’s strengths lie not in its own military but in its political class of religious elites, and its use of various proxies - most of whom Tehran considers religiously and ethnically inferior, with the possible exception of Hezbollah.

Iran’s support for the Russian war effort has been significant, but arguably not as much as China or even North Korea.

Russia - what the conflict in Ukraine has actually shown is the US, let alone a NATO coalition, would militarily defeat the Russians and threaten Moscow within a month of direct conflict. This is why the risk of nuclear war is actually heightened, because Moscow would have no other way to respond effectively. Russian victory in Ukraine will make conflict with NATO and therefore nuclear war more likely.

China - the only country in the world that could possibly pose a near peer threat to the US military all on its own. Paradoxically, the global economic system protected by the US Navy is what underpins China’s entire economic development model. Time will tell if defeating the US is more important than economic progress. Xi has thrown in with Putin and committed to the new Cold War, so we will see sooner or later. Right now Chinese economic (and probably military) support is keeping the Kremlin afloat. Alea iaca est.

North Korea - wasn’t mentioned but is important in the context of military support for the Russian war machine. North Korean surplus and factory production is how Russia has been able to completely outshoot Ukrainian artillery more recently, for example. With western support waning, this advantage will become more and more apparent.

[fkizz]

In other words, you are not being very generous here.

Well first things first to avoid confusion, I meant generosity in terms of not denying around the other user counting and source interpretation rather than the geopolitical scenario overall. Please don't confuse.

Since the time of Darius I and Attila, people from the East have always invaded people from the West.The West could not oppose anything to the people from the East except a handful of heroes such as the Spartan king Leonidas, the Roman strategist Aetius, who was then treacherously killed by the Roman emperor.
So this time too, the eastern barbarians will succeed and conquer Europe.

King Leonidas situation plus the Monarch betraying the commander who fought off Attila brings to mind..

"Imagine a King that fights in his own battles.. wouldn't that be a sight?" - Achilles

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Russians have been assaulting these positions on a weekly basis for the past months. The sheer amount of footage showing extensive Russian armor and infantry losses paints us a clear picture.

No they haven't. The Russians hadn't been assaulting Robotyne. Where as actual assault on Avdiivka had been going on since November. But much of that battle was actually preceded by a large encirclement operation.

Every bit of land Russians are gaining is being paid in steel and blood.

Implying there isn't tons of footage of Ukrainian dead and destroyed Ukrainian vehicles. The losses which the Ukrainians took in 2023 were staggering. The Russians have taken so many casualties that even now they are assaulting multiple cities. Yeah that makes perfect sense.

Your response merely constitutes an irrational refusal to acknowledge basic facts.

This coming from the guy who won't acknowledge that Ukraine is losing the war. What are you going to do when Ukraine actually loses? What is your next brilliant take going to be I wonder.

Hence, the question; who are you trying to fool?

You already fooled yourself guy. Not much else I could do in that department.