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Thread: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

  1. #141

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    JRRT wrote:
    “They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard.”
    LotR, App. F

    Christopher Tolkien (CT) commented on this passage:
    Thus these words describing characters of face and hair were actually written of the Noldor only, and not of all the Eldar: indeed the Vanyar had golden hair, and it was from Finarfin’s Vanyarin mother Indis that he, and Finrod Felagund and Galadriel his children, had their golden hair that marked them out among the princes of the Noldor. But I am unable to determine how this extraordinary perversion of meaning arose.
    BoLT I, Ch. 1 The Cottage of Lost Play

    CT later comments on his own commentary:
    "In my discussion of this in 1.43-4 I pointed out that the words
    'They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were
    dark, save in the golden house of Finrod [Finarfin]' were originally
    written of the Noldor only, and not of all the Eldar, and I objected that
    'the Vanyar had golden hair, and it was from Finarfin's Vanyarin
    mother Indis that he, and Finrod Felagund and Galadriel his children,
    had their golden hair', finding in the final use of this passage an 'extraordinary
    perversion of meaning'. But my father carefully remodelled
    the passage in order to apply it to the Eldar as a whole, and it does
    indeed seem 'extraordinary' that he should have failed to observe this
    point. It seems possible that when he re-used the passage in this way
    the conception of the golden hair of the Vanyar had not yet arisen.(4)"
    PoMe, Ch. II (commentary)

    endnote 4 reads:
    "It must be admitted, however, that the statement in the chapter
    Of Maeglin in The Silmarillion (p. 136) that Idril Celebrindal
    'was golden as the Vanyar, her mother's kindred' appears already
    in the original text (1951; see XI.316); and of course even if the
    re-use of the passage did precede the appearance of the idea of the
    'golden Vanyar', it needed correction subsequently."
    op.cit.

    Now lets see some other descriptions of the Elves:
    The Vanyar:
    "The Lindar are named also Tarqendi 'High-elves', Vanimor 'the
    Beautiful' [> Irimor 'the Fair Ones'], and Ninqendi 'White-elves';"
    LRoW, The Genealogies
    (Lindar is an earlier name of the Vanyar)

    "Vanyar are the Blessed Elves, and the Spear-elves, the Elves
    of the Air, the friends of the Gods, the Holy Elves and the
    Immortal, and the Children of Ingwe; they are the Fair Folk
    and the White."
    MR, LQS (I)

    "This name was probably given to the First Clan by the Noldor.
    They accepted it, but continued to call themselves most often by
    their old numerical name Minyar (since the whole of this clan
    had joined the Eldar and reached Aman). The name referred to
    the hair of the Minyar, which was in nearly all members of the
    clan yellow or deep golden. This was regarded as a beautiful
    feature by the Noldor (who loved gold), though they were
    themselves mostly dark-haired. Owing to intermarriage the
    golden hair of the Vanyar sometimes later appeared among
    the Noldor: notably in the case of Finarfin, and in his children
    Finrod and Galadriel, in whom it came from King Finwe s
    second wife, Indis of the Vanyar.
    Vanyar thus comes from an adjectival derivative *wanja from
    the stem *WAN. Its primary sense seems to have been very
    similar to English (modern) use of 'fair' with reference to hair
    and complexion; though its actual development was the reverse
    of the English: it meant 'pale, light-coloured, not brown or
    dark', and its implication of beauty was secondary. In English
    the meaning 'beautiful' is primary. From the same stem was
    derived the name given in Quenya to the Valie Vana wife of
    Orome."
    WotJ, Quendi and Eldar

    The Sindar:
    "In general the Sindar appear to have very closely resembled the
    Exiles, being dark-haired, strong and tall, but lithe. Indeed they
    could hardly be told apart except by their eyes; for the eyes of
    all the Elves that had dwelt in Aman impressed those of
    Middle-earth by their piercing brightness. For which reason the
    Sindar often called them Lachend, pl. Lechind 'flame-eyed'."
    op.cit.

    How the Easterlings see them:
    "All the people of Húrin's homelands that could work or serve any purpose they took away, even young girls and boys, and the old they killed or drove out to starve. But they dared not yet lay hands on the Lady of Dor-lómin, or thrust her from her house; for the word ran among them that she was perilous, and a witch who had dealings with the white-fiends: for so they named the Elves, hating them, but fearing them more."
    UT, Narn; CoH

  2. #142

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    New picture of *Galadriel:

  3. #143

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Main teaser and pictures:



    https://ew.com/tv/lord-of-the-rings-...or-first-look/

    (doesn't convince me to be honest)

  4. #144
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    The armors are awful, there's so much rubber and plastic there

    Also, Galadriel is gonna be Elrond
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  5. #145
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Me, I actually like this trailer. It's much better than the previous ones and I'd consider watching the series.

  6. #146

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    We're all gonna watch it. Let's not kid ourselves.
    The Armenian Issue

  7. #147
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Also, Galadriel is gonna be Elrond
    Please elaborate.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #148

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    The armors are awful, there's so much rubber and plastic there

    Also, Galadriel is gonna be Elrond

  9. #149

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Please elaborate.
    It is likely a reference to *Galadriel being presented as a battle hardened warrior princess commander of the armies lore-master, while *Elrond is a young inexperienced diplomat and politician sent off to the dwarves for an alliance and who is in need of mentoring and parental figures to look up to.
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 16, 2022 at 01:30 PM.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    It is likely a reference to *Galadriel being presented as a battle hardened warrior princess commander of the armies lore-master, while *Elrond is a young inexperienced diplomat and politician sent off to the dwarves for an alliance and who is in need of mentoring and parental figures to look up to.
    pretty much this

    Lore-wise this show is gonna be a mess
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  11. #151

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    pretty much this

    Lore-wise this show is gonna be a mess
    Even with what has been publicly presented, it is messed-up (and so many (self proclaimed) 'knowledgeable' fans and 'experts' and 'Professors' keep trying to defend it as somehow faithful and accurate to the lore).
    But Amazon has started to shift from the 'adaptation of Tolkien's work' to a 'based on Tolkien'.
    Though 'A loosely based on re-interpretation' would be better...

  12. #152
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    IMO, this is a scam, under all aspects. They needed to find a blank spot in the lore to set up some of the usual BS that sells this days, and the War of the Rings was the most likely to be used.. all the previous lore (from the Music of the Ainur till the fall of Numenor) is made up of characters that are very much unknown to the mass of casual watchers (which compose the vast majority of those who are gonna watch and enjoy this show), while the War of the Rings features some characters and places (Lorien, Moria, etc) which are well known to many.

    As I said, I don't expect anything less than a lore mess, low quality visuals out of CGI, bad acting. It's just a commercial product, like anything else Amazon does.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  13. #153

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    It's Rome II all over again... Lord of the Rings trilogy was no different with its depiction in comparison to the Amazon series as far as what we know so far. Any screen adaptation of any book in such proportions are bound to be a commercial product. All movies and series are by nature. I have never seen a true to form adaptation that makes this one an exceptionally bad one. We have our books to enjoy and we have our big screen adaptations to enjoy.
    The Armenian Issue

  14. #154

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    Hey now, it must have taken some effort to paint the scales on that shirt *Tar-Miriel is wearing.
    Then there is the helm, that rides up and forward because of her hair (must be plastic), with the too short nasal that would jab into her nose (among other problems).
    (To give some credit, at least she and the other *Numenorean cavalryme... er cavalrypeople (problematic by multiple accounts) aren't wearing plate armour.)

    But, you know, amazon only had some hundreds of millions to spend...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    IMO, this is a scam, under all aspects. They needed to find a blank spot in the lore to set up some of the usual BS that sells this days, and the War of the Rings was the most likely to be used..
    Speaking of the usual BS, I have found myself amused elsewhere, by the pathetically ignorant 'but what about Jackson' wub.
    Just recently I have had people pop up replying to comments I make going 'did you say that about Jackson's?'. And I look at the name, and then at mine. And it is like 'Dude, my name is very unusual, we freaking interacted two decades ago, you read my criticisms of Jackson. You commented on them. You might even have agreed with them...'.
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 18, 2022 at 07:16 AM.

  15. #155
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    It's Rome II all over again... Lord of the Rings trilogy was no different with its depiction in comparison to the Amazon series as far as what we know so far. Any screen adaptation of any book in such proportions are bound to be a commercial product. All movies and series are by nature. I have never seen a true to form adaptation that makes this one an exceptionally bad one. We have our books to enjoy and we have our big screen adaptations to enjoy.
    I definitely had issues with Jakson's LotR as well. But IMO one can't compare the original production of LotR with this last show. Time will tell anyways

    edit: like I had with the Hobbit, for obvious reasons. It took me 10 years to convince myself to watch that trilogy: good acting (like in LotR ofc), some plot choices I could live with, others I really can't (unlike with the LotR, honestly), some idiocies that they luckily took away (atl from the short version, such as the dwarven "I don't give a heck about fisics and will crush 100 times more arrows" ballistas)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Speaking of the usual BS, I have found myself amused elsewhere, by the pathetically ignorant 'but what about Jackson' wub.
    Just recently I have had people pop up replying to comments I make going 'did you say that about Jackson's?'. And I look at the name, and then at mine. And it is like 'Dude, my name is very unusual, we freaking interacted two decades ago, you read my criticisms of Jackson. You commented on them. You might even have agreed with them...'.
    Lol funniest part is that Jackon will look like a hero after that this will be released

    edit2: sorry to digress for the OP, my bad, but it still burns. I'm not telling that the LotR or the Hobbit trilogy aren't good shows, I simply don't agree with some (many for the Hobbit) plot choices they made, lore wise.. in LotR it was mostly a matter of cutting off what was not strictly necessary (Tom Bombadill, Imrhail, etc), in the Hobbit it was more about adding stuff to have enough material for a trilogy (with some total BS like the Kili & Laurel love story).. this last show, from what I could have seen from the trailers and reading around the net, it's a complete mess, with no excuse for plot changes (once again, lore wise) if not the compelling need to produce some material which could result appealing for the mass of the ignorant (lore wise) watcher. So no thanks, I can do well without.
    Last edited by Flinn; July 18, 2022 at 07:58 AM.
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  16. #156

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    I definitely had issues with Jakson's LotR as well. But IMO one can't compare the original production of LotR with this last show. Time will tell anyways

    edit: like I had with the Hobbit, for obvious reasons. It took me 10 years to convince myself to watch that trilogy: good acting (like in LotR ofc), some plot choices I could live with, others I really can't (unlike with the LotR, honestly), some idiocies that they luckily took away (atl from the short version, such as the dwarven "I don't give a heck about fisics and will crush 100 times more arrows" ballistas)...
    Lord of the Rings was a first in such a genre perhaps. I can't think of any other adaptation with such an epic scale. So, it has a different spot on our minds. Yet, it had its shortcomings to with weathered plots like that of actual return of the king through the mountains, the Uruk-hai etc. Tolkien rarely mentioned, if more than once, that elves use curved swords but somehow they are Elvish government issued in the movies. Of course, they similarly utilized real looking armor/weapons, cheap damageable ones for battle scenes, and rubber ones for other uses. If we feel like it we can find numerous points about all these productions.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #157

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Numenor throne Room:


  18. #158

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinarius View Post
    Main teaser and pictures:



    https://ew.com/tv/lord-of-the-rings-...or-first-look/

    (doesn't convince me to be honest)
    Trailer:
    start: World before sun but light from *Two Trees.
    Breaks the Lore of LotR and The Hobbit.
    12: *Finrod
    Short hair
    25 in: nomadic agriculturilst *Harfoots
    Tolkien stated Hobbits (of which Harfoots are but one of three breeds, and the most settled sort) did not enter any of the stories of the earlier ages.
    38 in: moose antler people
    uh...
    44 in: random weeds in *Harfoots hair
    47 in: Based On
    No longer adapted
    49+ in: *Elrond and *Galadriel converse 'you have not seen':
    yuh hunh
    nuh unh
    yuh hunh
    nuh unh
    52 in: super warrior princess *Galadriel and random *Elf
    tries to damage her sword, and short haired *Elf
    1:11 in: *Galadriel
    stupid back sheathed sword
    1:12 Speculation runs from *Galadriel flashback to *First Kinslaying or *Dagor Bragollach or *War of Wrath...
    First Kinslaying: Feanor killed people and stole ships, he did not burn Alqualonde down.
    Bragollach: Galadriel did not see it, she was either esconced in Doriath or had fled Beleriand.
    War of Wrath: Galadriel had long since fled Beleriand. Elrond, however, did see it. He was at the War of Wrath.
    ...or some sort of future vision of the *Downfall of Numenor
    1:27: Hail Gilt-galadus Caesar, *Gil-galad
    Gil-galad's colours were silver and blue. Gil-galad was younger than Galadriel, barely older (relatively speaking) than Elrond.
    1:30: *Orcs
    Lose the dumb bone/wood (or whatever) helmets. They look okay otherwise. Though Amazon is being inconsistent with its own 'lore'.
    1.36: *Tar-Miriel
    Breaking LotR lore. Tar-Miriel did not rule, Ar-Pharazon usurped the throne before she could.
    Is that supposed to be some attempt at a carrea?
    1:46 *Elf on ice cliff
    Short hair
    1:48 (and Pinarius' picture): throne room.
    Must not be any women of *Elros blood-line there.
    1:49 (and 5th picture): *Numenorean cavalry. With *Numenorean women.
    Numenoreans did not use their horses in war.
    Numenorean women did not go to war.
    1:58 (and first and fourth picture in article): *Pharazon, *Elendil armed and wearing a breastplate, *Tar-Miriel, *Islidur, Earien and Kemen
    Ar-Pharazon took the sceptre, was not advisor to Tar-Miriel, is also a year younger than Tar-Miriel. They are first cousins, and the royal house married within the line of Elros.
    Made up son of *Pharazon and daughter of *Elendil. And no carrea.
    Numenoreans did not wear swords in Numenor (unless going to battle). No breastplates in Tolkien.
    There seems to be a distinct lack of blonds in *Numenor.
    2:01: *Oath of Feanor maybe.
    At least the *Elves have long hair.
    2:07: Meteor Man
    *Eye of Sauron?
    2:09: *Harfoots
    stumbling over their prosthetic feet.
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 20, 2022 at 08:45 AM.

  19. #159
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Going back a bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    As Araval said:
    https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2015/...h-transcribed/

    (This map, as I recall, is a fairly recent find).

    By the by, Tolkien offered some extensive criticism of Baynes work, perhaps you can find something that from him saying Dorwinion is in the wrong place.
    And my '65 Ballantine FotR map has the River-running ending in the Sea of Rhun.
    Have you read HoTH?

    what you say...???

    He basically picked her farmer Gilles because he was flipping through a submission of her while ignoring crap illustrations his publish was trying to get him to , they were her stuff since was a women.

    https://rjdent.wordpress.com/2016/01...j-r-r-tolkien/



    "Merton College, Oxford

    4 June 1949

    Dear Miss Baynes,

    I ought to have written to you before to tell you of the great pleasure that your drawings in illustration of “Farmer Giles” have given me. My friends, very justly, said after seeing them that they had reduced the text to a commentary on the pictures.

    I have now seen and returned the ‘paste-up’; and though I am glad that so many of the illustrations have been preserved, at least in the sense that they are represented, I am distressed. Ignorant as I am of the costs and of production-processes, I had hoped for a larger page and space. I fear it has done small justice to your beautiful line and pattern to reduce the size so drastically.

    Even so, what little value this rather slender ‘squib’ has is much enhanced by your work.

    I am hoping soon to get some larger works published, and in a more ample fashion; and if so, I hope you might be interested, or at least have time to consider them. One, a long romance in sequel to The Hobbit, is finished after some years of work, and is being typed. It is held up at the moment, since I am immersed in examinations and other weary business; but when it's done, I wonder if I could prevail on you to glance at it.

    I hope that we may perhaps [have the?] opportunity of meeting ere [?]

    Yours sincerely,

    J.R.R. Tolkien"

    That said the prickly working relationship but its also Dorwinion is exactly where JRRT wanted. Which makes sense the because it actually makes the economy of the Iron Hills and Lonely Mountain and Elves all make sense.

    ------------------------
    @PointOfViewGun

    I can't think of any other adaptation with such an epic scale
    Actually its often no epic. I mean for all the budget we still shiny cities in the middle of nowhere Minas Tirth was no more epic than the Krull on that score. Same the ludicrous retreat toward the enemy by Theodin with 20 soldiers and some raged bog standard Hollywood peasants right out of Monty Python (that was where i was wondering PJ even read the books). [Also never could figure out why the floating Aragon segment was added].


    ------------------


    On the plastics if you actually have plastic scales. I OK with that but the amour design is really bad the painted scale long sleeve shirt is a really odd choice.
    Last edited by conon394; July 21, 2022 at 10:53 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  20. #160

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Going back a bit





    what you say...???

    He basically picked her farmer Gilles because he was flipping through a submission of her while ignoring crap illustrations his publish was trying to get him to , they were her stuff since was a women.
    I am unsure of what you are asking or attempting to say here.
    An example of some of his criticism is this:
    "Long afterwards my father would write, in a wrathful comment on a ‘pretty’ or ‘ladylike’ pictorial rendering of Legolas:
    He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgûl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship."
    BoLT 2
    That is one of several criticisms of characters drawn by Baynes on a poster map for LotR (pictured at your link).
    https://rjdent.wordpress.com/2016/01...j-r-r-tolkien/

    That said the prickly working relationship but its also Dorwinion is exactly where JRRT wanted. Which makes sense the because it actually makes the economy of the Iron Hills and Lonely Mountain and Elves all make sense.
    I think that was rather my point. Dorwinion was properly located on the map. As I recall, this was being questioned by another poster.
    Last edited by Infidel144; July 21, 2022 at 12:07 PM.

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