Science will not win over Religion

[conon394]

Concerning the flood, you say it is fantasy, yet all the indications of the layers of the landscape confirm that at some point water had played a part in their positions.

Not as some single impossible flood event that you believe based on young earth Bible belief.

Mount St Helens is a good but small indication of what happened when the whole world was covered in water

Err no its not. I frankly have no ideal what you trying to talk about please elaborate.

In any case I don't even need to debate Geology the simple fact is genetics does not allow for your particular iron age mythology. There is no double genetic bottle neck in humans that can be dated in the extreme to some 6000 years ago and when sometime again after.

[basics]

conon394,

Well ole buddie, you weren't there but God, Noah and family were so I'll take their word for it.

[conon394]

conon394,

Well ole buddie, you weren't there but God, Noah and family were so I'll take their word for it.

A statement the requires a functionally ignoring the scientific data and... B is no more valid than other picking any other creation myth and say I believe that one.

[Bande Nere]

conon394,

Well ole buddie, you weren't there but God, Noah and family were so I'll take their word for it.

2 problems with that.

1) The bible is a heavily edited book. Not simply chapters being in different places depending on the denominations, but actual mistranslations and wanted deformations of context for the political needs at time of editing. For 2 thousand years at minimum. And what about all the other disciples of Jesus whose vangeli were not allowed in your official bible? Why don't they count? Who decided that and why?

2) Any believer of any religion can say that about their own faith. You will say "but they believe a false God/s" which would be exactly what they would say about you and so on. A ridiculous fight over who's imaginary friend is real.


That's why science can never lose over religion. THat's why it's not even a contest.


And I still haven't heard an answer about how preJews were supposed to spread the Word to the ends of the Earth that also proves His Love for Us All and his infallibility. Because so far it shows very little of both.

[conon394]

I should say I said I was going to ignore geology but I still baffled by what you think Mount St. Helens shows in the context of a proposed world wide flood?

[basics]

DavidBN,

Noah and family brought the Word out of the flood being the only survivors and God by His Grace knew which of them were heaven bound and which of them were not. God hates sin, the reason why sinners are condemned therefore the world that He loved was the world He created before sin entered it. Therefore not one person deserves saving yet God by Grace saves some and still does because His Son put Himself on a cross to shed His blood as a substitute for them. These peoples are given a new heart to believe, a faith that is Christ's and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as their Mentor for the journey yet to be done.

So, the religious can believe what they want but if it's not that Gospel as above it is false. That where imaginary friends come from, not God.

Now since God created all that we know it follows that science comes into that category but if you want an argument from your angle, what came first the big bang or science?

Concerning Bibles, yes there are many versions but yet the core message in all of them is the same.

[conon394]

He created before sin entered it

Ahh so you admit your Manichaeism, but you have been following Augustine so of course

what came first the big bang or science?

You realize that is not an argument it is just a sort of silly question.

[Bande Nere]

DavidBN,

1)Noah and family brought the Word out of the flood being the only survivors and God by His Grace knew which of them were heaven bound and which of them were not. God hates sin, the reason why sinners are condemned therefore the world that He loved was the world He created before sin entered it. Therefore not one person deserves saving yet God by Grace saves some and still does because His Son put Himself on a cross to shed His blood as a substitute for them. These peoples are given a new heart to believe, a faith that is Christ's and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost as their Mentor for the journey yet to be done.

2)So, the religious can believe what they want but if it's not that Gospel as above it is false. That where imaginary friends come from, not God.

Now since God created all that we know it follows that science comes into that category but if you want an argument from your angle, 3)what came first the big bang or science?

Concerning Bibles, yes there are many versions but 4)yet the core message in all of them is the same.

1 - Sighs. No. Rinse and repeat of a non explanation is not an answer.

2 - Thanks for proving my point about fighting over who's imaginary friend is real.

3 - Science is the study of nature. It obviously cannot come before the thing it studies. Religion, or more specifically, the fantasy of men, gave birth to God/s. As I said, different things.

4 - Cool, so that means any Christian can go to Paradise, right? Oh wait, that's not what you repeat in every other post.

Reminder:

And I still haven't heard an answer about how preJews were supposed to spread the Word to the ends of the Earth that also proves His Love for Us All and his infallibility. Because so far it shows very little of both.

[Cyclops]

There is no book of the Bible attributed to Noah. Genesis is traditionally attributed to Moses. there is no biblical book of Noah.

There are many Bible with many different messages. The separate books, which pre-existed the Bible, also come in a wide variety of versions, even before they were compiled.

It is demonstrably false to say all Bibles contain the same message. There's even one the commands adultery.

[basics]

DavidBN,

Yes, it's true that Moses wrote down Genesis so that we would know how and why we were created. God required that he do so and the story of the flood is a central part of the story. If God were imaginary do you honestly think that me being an unbeliever for some forty years could suddenly change into a believer? No my friend, God revealed Jesus Christ to me showing how much I needed Him in my life and on that evening put me on my knees and changed me forever. Therefore I am not ashamed to tell of that nor am I ashamed that it happened just as I said.

Therefore when you study science you study what God created and created to be an up and running mature system so that life could immediately live just as we know it.

What I say about Christianity is that one has to be born again of the Spirit of God to be a Christian and that through the work of God alone. If a person claims to be a Christian but is not born again that person will never see heaven.

Obviously you have not read a Bible because all the pre-Christ saints were accounted righteous before God because they believed in His coming and many of them were not Jews. Their accounts were satisfied by Christ's blood at the cross.

[Bande Nere]

DavidBN,

Yes, it's true that Moses wrote down Genesis so that we would know how and why we were created. God required that he do so and the story of the flood is a central part of the story. 1)If God were imaginary do you honestly think that me being an unbeliever for some forty years could suddenly change into a believer? No my friend, God revealed Jesus Christ to me showing how much I needed Him in my life and on that evening put me on my knees and changed me forever. Therefore I am not ashamed to tell of that nor am I ashamed that it happened just as I said.

Therefore when you study science you study what God created and 2)created to be an up and running mature system so that life could immediately live just as we know it.

What I say about Christianity is that one has to be born again of the Spirit of God to be a Christian and that through the work of God alone. 3) If a person claims to be a Christian but is not born again that person will never see heaven.

4)Obviously you have not read a Bible because all the pre-Christ saints were accounted righteous before God because they believed in His coming and many of them were not Jews. Their accounts were satisfied by Christ's blood at the cross.

1) Yes. Your "come to Jesus" moment was of a religious nature. That does not prove the existence of a God, but if it somehow helped you solve some personal crap I'm happy for you. Religion can be a useful form of therapy when it's not being used as a weapon.

2) That's downright false.

3) Baptism, First Communion and Confirmation not enough? The last two take about 6-7 years of catechism.

4) I did. back when I was a teenager. More than 20 years ago. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove.


I'm still waiting.

And I still haven't heard an answer about how preJews were supposed to spread the Word to the ends of the Earth that also proves His Love for Us All and his infallibility. Because so far it shows very little of both.

[conon394]

Yes, it's true that Moses wrote down Genesis

A tradition and belief in a tradition but not a fact. Its also non nonsensical because of the jarring changes in topic, writing style and what not. The differences are not trivial. It be jamming the first part of Xenophon's Hellenica (the ones that cover the end of Peloponnesian War) and said hey look I found a complete copy of an unknown Thucydides. The writing style and nature and focus of the writing would obviously be that of a different author.

If God were imaginary do you honestly think that me being an unbeliever for some forty years could suddenly change into a believer?

Err yes I known plenty of people who fell out one faith to another or out faith or into faith. Its really fairly common.

Therefore when you study science you study what God created and created to be an up and running mature system so that life could immediately live just as we know it.

Your therefore requires facts to reach a a conclusion if you are trying to convince somebody of something. Also of science contradicts the creation story so no in studying science you not are studying a creation myth

Obviously you have not read a Bible because all the pre-Christ saints were accounted righteous before God

You garbling stuff there are no pre christian saints in the way you understand the meaning of the English word.

because they believed in His coming and many of them were not Jews

They would likely scratch their head at that as in what is he talking about.

------

edit: reiterate, Ahh so you admit your Manichaeism, but you have been following Augustine so of course?

How did sin enter it?

[basics]

DavidBN,

And I still haven't heard an answer about how preJews were supposed to spread the Word to the ends of the Earth that also proves His Love for Us All and his infallibility. Because so far it shows very little of both.

And I have told you how Noah's family must have spread the word because of the numerous religions that sprouted up from then. Man has always known there is a God Who created us but it was man's interpretation of what he was told that led people away from the real God to ones of their imagination. Indeed it can be said that is why God separated the peoples into groupings and language. Even so, in each one of them God revealed Jesus Christ to certain individuals just as He does to this very day.

Baptism never saved anyone for as the Bible states that ritual comes after a person is born again so unless a person is born again of the Spirit of God baptism means nothing.

" No man can come to the Father except by Me and no man can come to Me except the Father draws him." So, when a person is drawn to Jesus it happens when he or she is made aware of how lost they are and they cry out in repentance and so when God sees the broken and contrite heart that is when rebirth takes place. That person during these things has no control over what is happening because it is all a work of God and once done can never be rescinded. They are a new creation in Christ Jesus and they didn't deserve to be but for the Grace of God.

[conon394]

Still avoiding my question and your technical Manichaeism beliefs.

And I have told you how Noah's family must have spread the word because of the numerous religions that sprouted up from then

Problem no evidence of flood, no evidence of Noah (the Genetics are impossible particularity with your young Earth thing). also it too too many religions have absoultly no potential be derived from Gensis. Also of course Genesis is in fact very derivative of Near eastern Religions out of the Sumerian derivation.

[Bande Nere]

DavidBN,

And I still haven't heard an answer about how preJews were supposed to spread the Word to the ends of the Earth that also proves His Love for Us All and his infallibility. Because so far it shows very little of both.

1)And I have told you how Noah's family must have spread the word because of the numerous religions that sprouted up from then. Man has always known there is a God Who created us but it was man's interpretation of what he was told that led people away from the real God to ones of their imagination. Indeed it can be said that is why God separated the peoples into groupings and language. Even so, in each one of them God revealed Jesus Christ to certain individuals just as He does to this very day.

2)Baptism never saved anyone for as the Bible states that ritual comes after a person is born again so unless a person is born again of the Spirit of God baptism means nothing.

3)" No man can come to the Father except by Me and no man can come to Me except the Father draws him." So, when a person is drawn to Jesus it happens when he or she is made aware of how lost they are and they cry out in repentance and so when God sees the broken and contrite heart that is when rebirth takes place. That person during these things has no control over what is happening because it is all a work of God and once done can never be rescinded. They are a new creation in Christ Jesus and they didn't deserve to be but for the Grace of God.

1) Sure, and everyone got it wrong except your preJews. No pockets of illuminated believers around the world. Just the one small tribe.

2) So all those dead baptized children are sent to hell/purgatory? What a nice guy your God. Also I'll have remind you I mentioned Communion and Confirmation as well. Nothing to say about that?

3) And what about those who believed in him from the start, lived a good life and never did anything so egregious that they needed your "Come to Jesus" moment? Apparently they are going to hell too. Your God is starting to sound more psycotic by the minute.

[basics]

DavidBN,

There were no others apart from Noah and his offspring. All the pockets your trying to introduce were all killed in the flood.

As there is no such place as purgatory, yes they are all in hell.

As for confirmation I quote this, " The Bible, however, is silent on the matter of such a ritual. In fact, the idea that a person can “confirm” to another that he/she is in the faith is denied in Scripture. Each individual must determine the state of his/her soul based on several criteria. First, we are confirmed by the Holy Spirit who lives in our hearts. “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children” (Romans 8:16). When we accept Christ as Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our hearts and gives us assurance that He is present and that we belong to Him, and He also teaches and explains spiritual things to us (1 Corinthians 2:13-14), thereby confirming that we are new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Communion is a celebration for born again believers to remember what Christ did to save them. The bread and wine are but symbols of the broken body and dripping blood shed by Christ on the cross just as He used them at the Last Supper.

Jesus said that we are all conceived in sin and Him being God is He wrong? We are told that we all fall short of the glory of God and that we are dead in our sin so how does a dead sinner do good every moment of his or her "good" life?

Your last comment is one that you alone is going to have to explain to God when He comes to judge you. I've got enough explaining to do but that will not be one of them.

[conon394]

There were no others apart from Noah and his offspring. All the pockets your trying to introduce were all killed in the flood.

A statement completely confounded by all evidence.

[Akar]

what came first the big bang or science?

This is the second stupidest thing you've asked so far, I think.

For the record the stupidest is "What is the speed of darkness?"

Communion is just ritual cannibalism.

[basics]

Akar,

What's the first? I believe that I have never asked what the speed of darkness is as the speed of either does not concern me. Well if you turn the ritual into real things that's what it would be but alas, we Baptists see it as a remembrance of what Jesus did at the cross in using the bread and wine at the supper.

[conon394]

Still avoiding the problem that the evidence shows no Noah in your young earth framework or any really.