Ridley Scott wants to vandalize history again (Napoleon)

[conon394]

I should clarify on these points.

My primary issue isn't that Joaquin Phoenix doesn't look the part. These are just actors whatever.

But what I do think will be the case is that he will not be able to pull of the role. I don't think that his acting ability is at the level where he could play Napoleon.

I expect that he will just be a stereotypical Napoleon, acting all detached and stern, likely overacting certain scenes and start screaming or something, as Joaquin Phoenix tends to do.

Well he might do a better job than Marlon Brando did but that is hardly an achievement. As far as Napoleon actors go it is hard to beat Rod Steiger in Waterloo. While Christian Clavier did a believable job in the Napoleon miniseries. Vladislav Strzhelchik did a pretty good job for the short amount of screen time he had in the 1967 Russian version of War & Peace.

I actually think I just don't like him is fine. I mean actors (genric) range from really being able to make you not see they are the not completely the character to sort of the the bit where its hard not to see they are just sort of being a persona that might or might not work. I mean hey my wife hates Tom Cruise and avoids any movie he is so I think you got a solid personal argument.

Pulling off Napoleon is tricky in this context is tricky since I really think it will depend on what script is asking him to do. Personally I wince at the ideal they they are going to do six battles and also do some kind of romantic fixation story. Seems like maybe you are cramming two different movies together and rather setting any actor up for failure.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

It is kind of both for me. I don't think he is the right actor for the job. Who is I don't know... I guess Rod Steiger.

But I don't really like Joaquin much either. I think he did a decent job at portraying a psychotic in Gladiator. But he was overacting way too much. So it was kind of average and obviously not an accurate depiction of Commodus.

I honestly can't think of a performance of his other than Gladiator which I actually thought was really that good or praiseworthy. Like I said I didn't like the Joker. Maybe Her? But definitely not Signs.

[Kyriakos]

Signs
I can't think of any performance by JP that would be useful in Napoleon either.

[conon394]

It is kind of both for me. I don't think he is the right actor for the job. Who is I don't know... I guess Rod Steiger.

But I don't really like him much either. I think he did a decent job at portraying a psychotic in Gladiator. But he was overacting way too much. So it was kind of average and obviously not an accurate depiction of Commodus.

I honestly can't think of a performance of his other than Gladiator which I actually thought was really that good or praiseworthy. Like I said I didn't like the Joker. Maybe Her? But definitely not Signs.

Hmm did not finish signs so can't say.

Still think its like at least two different movie slapped together. Also given he turned the the professional roman army into fighting a a muddy mosh pit riot with napalm, not sure I trust him to manage several of Napoleons battles on screen (scott that is).

[Garbarsardar]

Veering off-topic now but his performance in The Master was excellent (as everyone else's in that film). Based on that performance, he can play pretty much anything.

Ridley Scott (and I speak for the period after The Duellists, Alien, Blade Runner) is at his best when he does straight popcorn epic (popporn epic?) and at his worst when he tries to make A POINT. That is why Gladiator floated, Kingdom of Heaven floundered and Robin Hood sunk.

Napoleon in one movie, featuring 6 battles; we can bet he will take some liberties with the plot.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I always forget that Ridley Scott made The Duelists, Alien, and Blade Runner. For the record he also directed Black Hawk Down.

I will say that although Gladiator was a well put together film I really didn't like it that much. To me it is just a popcorn flick.

Gladiator got so much praise when it came out but I didn't really understand that praise. From a writing perspective I mean. Since that was actually really average.

Remember that he also made Exodus Gods and Kings. It seems that no one actually remembers that, it is actually really funny that no one does.

We are literally seeing the decline and fall of Ridley Scott in real time. His The Last Duel was not received with enthusiasm.

This movie might be his last, at the very least a lot of people might not even realize that this Napoleon film exists. Ridley Scott movies will slowly and quietly fade away until no one realizes that he stopped making them.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I wish this movie was just marketed as "Napoleon AND Josephine" because that is basically what it is. Instead of the misleading claim that this is actually a Napoleon story. With the make belief premise that Napoleon had to conquer the old continent to satisfy his wife or some insane idiocy. As if Napoleon's end game was even to conquer Europe in the first place. But that is also another bit of fantasizing that comes from trying to equate Napoleon with Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great.

Besides the Napoleon and Josephine story is one of the most overrated of all time, it isn't even true. Napoleon had several mistresses, two illegitimate children, and then divorced his wife after he found a more prestigious (and fertile) candidate in the Archduchess of Austria, something which he had been seriously considering since he became Emperor anyhow. This is no Mark Antony and Cleopatra I can tell you that.

If you look for Napoleonic fiction then you will also find "Napoleon and Desiree" with the poorly cast Marlon Brando, as well as "Napoleon and Marie Walewska". So either Napoleon loved three women and this needs to be a trilogy at the very least or he was a womanizer. Wow a man with power who has lots of women, imagine my shock. Although I will say that at least Josephine or Marie Walewska are more believable candidates than Desiree Clary. That is just shipping at this point.

[conon394]

Napoleon with Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great.

Actually I think the first two are closer together than the third. Alex liked him some fighting and conquest and was not really all that interested in running the toys he conquered. The first two were stuck with war as something they were good at and it solved short term problems but both I think wanted to settle with their last good hand but could not. The larger system would not let them. I can't see a story that argues Josephine is the reason N rushed off to Russia.

[Roma_Victrix]

Sounds very bad.
Besides, there already are Napoleon movies. The Byzantine Empire needs a US/holywood movie

I know Empress Irene plus Basil II have been mentioned, but literally any movie depicting an Arab siege of Constantinople centuries before the decisive Ottoman blow would be immensely cool to watch if done right and with someone who cares about historical authenticity. It would be downright amazing in fact. Either that or some Italian director (or Italian American like Quentin Tarantino, LOL) could just troll you Greeks by depicting the 1204 AD Venetian-led sack in the Fourth Crusade, but let's not go there and open up old wounds for no good reason. Let's focus on those Arabs instead, if only to see ships getting roasted by Greek fire.

They filmed the entire thing in England for some reason. This is just Ridley Scott, an Anglo, trying to subvert French history. Shame on him and may the people give him the guillotine.

Plus, like you said, the only French actor plays the Russian Tsar. This is truly a strange film. I like Scott's films from the first half of his career, but this just sounds embarrassing. That's especially the case after the box office failures he has wrestled with of late.

Looks like someone who dressed up as Napoleon for Halloween

LOL. I suppose he could look worse, but Scott is just enamored with Phoenix after his portrayal of Commodus, so there was probably no changing his stubborn mind. Phoenix (real surname Bottom) is of partial French ancestry, but also English, German, and Russian/Hungarian Jewish. They couldn't just find a real Frenchman, or some Italian who could pass as a Corsican like the historical Napoleon Bonaparte?

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I know Empress Irene plus Basil II have been mentioned, but literally any movie depicting an Arab siege of Constantinople centuries before the decisive Ottoman blow would be immensely cool to watch if done right and with someone who cares about historical authenticity. It would be downright amazing in fact. Either that or some Italian director (or Italian American like Quentin Tarantino, LOL) could just troll you Greeks by depicting the 1204 AD Venetian-led sack in the Fourth Crusade, but let's not go there and open up old wounds for no good reason. Let's focus on those Arabs instead, if only to see ships getting roasted by Greek fire.

You know what we need is an HBO style series about the Diadochi. Except without the dumb HBO make belief and prostitutes. At this point I think that only China could make a half decent historical film. Check out 2010 Three Kingdoms, Epic of Qin, Chu-Han Contention, The Last Supper (about the feast at Hongmen Gate not Jesus LOL).

Japan used to make some decent historical movies and shows, but this kind of declined considerably after around 2005. No idea why but now they are all over the top dramas with CGI. Still check out Heaven & Earth about Uesugi Kenshin which was originally a novel, then got turned into an NHK TV series in the 1960s and then adapted into a movie in 1990.

Plus, like you said, the only French actor plays the Russian Tsar. This is truly a strange film. I like Scott's films from the first half of his career, but this just sounds embarrassing. That's especially the case after the box office failures he has wrestled with of late.

I swear it is like he isn't even trying. He must have gotten his intern to do all of the casting choices or something.

LOL. I suppose he could look worse, but Scott is just enamored with Phoenix after his portrayal of Commodus, so there was probably no changing his stubborn mind. Phoenix (real surname Bottom) is of partial French ancestry, but also English, German, and Russian/Hungarian Jewish. They couldn't just find a real Frenchman, or some Italian who could pass as a Corsican like the historical Napoleon Bonaparte?

They should have gotten the guy who played Furio in The Sopranos to play Napoleon. I want the scene where Napoleon walks up to the Duke of Enghien with a bat and goes "non te preocupare, non te preocupare" and then starts beating him with the bat and yells in Italian "you're lucky I didn't kill you, you ing whore".

[Kyriakos]

Or they could get the fans favourite, De Almeida
What's the () coordinate number, to the army of the czar...!

[Roma_Victrix]

You know what we need is an HBO style series about the Diadochi. Except without the dumb HBO make belief and prostitutes. At this point I think that only China could make a half decent historical film. Check out 2010 Three Kingdoms, Epic of Qin, Chu-Han Contention, The Last Supper (about the feast at Hongmen Gate not Jesus LOL).

Japan used to make some decent historical movies and shows, but this kind of declined considerably after around 2005. No idea why but now they are all over the top dramas with CGI. Still check out Heaven & Earth about Uesugi Kenshin which was originally a novel, then got turned into an NHK TV series in the 1960s and then adapted into a movie in 1990.

Interesting! Yeah, probably the only Japanese historical dramas I've seen with live actors are from Akira Kurosawa, whose films are quite dated now; I especially loved Ran. I had no idea that Japanese historical films had declined so much; these days I usually only watch Japanese horror films or action movies due to American ones being based on them (kind of like how Hollywood's The Departed was based on a Hong Kong film Infernal Affairs). The last big mainstream Chinese historical film I saw was probably Red Cliff by John Woo, but that was made a decade-and-a-half ago already, and during that era I remember enjoying Hero and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I'll have to check out the films you are talking about, never thought they would make one on the Chu-Han Contention (that would be like Hollywood making a film about the First Punic War). To be honest I've seen way, way more Korean films lately thanks to Netflix, the latest one being that Fortress movie about the Manchu Qing dynasty invasion of Joseon Korea before their conquest of China's Ming dynasty. I'll eat up anything movie-wise about Yi Sun-sin and the Imjin War involving Hideyoshi's Japan against Joseon Korea and Ming China.

I would enjoy an HBO rendition of the Diadochi Hellenistic leaders fighting each other after Alexander's death only if they made it with the production qualities that HBO Rome had. As for "prostitutes", the latter series had a few sex scenes and some nudity, but it was never really full-blown "sexposition" (portmanteau of "sex" + "exposition") like in Game of Thrones. It certainly did not distract or get in the way of good story telling, dialogue, character development, or violent action scenes. I'm sure HBO is capable of doing a show on ancient Greeks from that period, but they would undoubtedly and stereotypically focus on Alexander the Great's reign instead of the successor period afterwards. A series on the Ptolemies alone would be pretty wild and relevant to other media, since two different Cleopatra films are in the works.

I swear it is like he isn't even trying. He must have gotten his intern to do all of the casting choices or something.

Probably rented a monkey from the local zoo and hired it to hack away at a typewriter to come up with various ideas, including casting.

They should have gotten the guy who played Furio in The Sopranos to play Napoleon. I want the scene where Napoleon walks up to the Duke of Enghien with a bat and goes "non te preocupare, non te preocupare" and then starts beating him with the bat and yells in Italian "you're lucky I didn't kill you, you ing whore".

LOL. Furio! Now that guy was a character. He would be a fairly intimidating Napoleon if that's the angle you want to work with. I'm struggling to think of who could really portray him with the greatest amount of authenticity while resembling him in looks a bit at the least.

Or they could get the fans favourite, De Almeida
What's the () coordinate number, to the army of the czar...!

Joaquim De Almeida as Napoleon, pointing a musket at a group of his own officers: "you see someone you don't know, you shoot them, oui? What about him? I DON'T KNOW HIM!" [Fires musket, everyone runs and hides.]

De Almeida has been criminally undercast in films. He was in a terrible Roman era film recently, such a shame that his talent is squandered. Desperado plus Clear and Present Danger should have been a launching point for a glorious career. Instead every blue moon he gets cast in some minor role everyone forgets about even if it's in a box office hit, like in the Hitman's Bodyguard. With that being said, he is part of the cast of big name actors like Mickey Rourke and John Cleese for a new Roman Polanski directed movie that is coming out this year called The Palace, a black comedy that takes place in 1999 at the Gstaad Palace.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Or they could get the fans favourite, De Almeida
What's the () coordinate number, to the army of the czar...!

Holy ! Genius! Yeah a younger Joaquin de Almeida could have pulled it off quite well actually. He has the right temperament. He more or less looks the part. How is it that you don't work at Hollywood? I'm going to call Hollywood to see if they will give you this project, but you might have to sleep with Harvey Weinstein.

Joaquin de Almeida looks the part

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A young Napoleon consorts with the Director of the Republic Paul Barras, circa 1795

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Furio as Napoleon

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

2010 Three Kingdoms




Legend of Chu and Han




Qin Dynasty Epic




The Advisor's Alliance




Growling Tiger Roaring Dragon




The Last Supper




Kagemusha




Heaven & Earth

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I forgot Water Margin. I was watching it on Amazon Prime but I didn't get to finish it, and now it isn't on Amazon Prime anymore.

All Men Are Brothers (aka Water Margin)



This intro is so dope that it makes me want to start a rebellion against the Song Dynasty only to inevitably be defeated and get conscripted to go fight the Jurchens on the northern frontier.

Disclaimer: no tigers were hurt during the making of this production. However afterwards they did eat his penis.

[Roma_Victrix]

That all looks pretty awesome, thanks for sharing! However, the dub and general audio job for that Chu-Han one was fairly bad. I'd rather hear the original Chinese and just read the subtitles like I do for most East Asian movies/shows that I watch. I enjoyed all the cool cannonball explosion stuff in the All Men Are Brothers one, though. Music was cool too!

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

That all looks pretty awesome, thanks for sharing! However, the dub and general audio job for that Chu-Han one was fairly bad. I'd rather hear the original Chinese and just read the subtitles like I do for most East Asian movies/shows that I watch. I enjoyed all the cool cannonball explosion stuff in the All Men Are Brothers one, though. Music was cool too!

I did watch Legend of Chu and Han subbed so I assume it is still on YouTube. Legend of Chu and Han were made by the same studio that did 2010 Three Kingdoms.

Where as The Advisor's Alliance and its sequel Growling Tiger Roaring Dragon, about Sima Yi during the Three Kingdoms, was made by a completely different studio years later. But the actor who plays Liu Bei in the 2010 Three Kingdoms ironically plays Cao Cao in The Advisor's Alliance.

The Last Supper might be the best one on there. The sets and costume are really accurate. But that one is actually a full length movie about the Chu-Han contention. It retells how Liu Bang became Emperor and then his gradual descent into madness. I think it is a little too apologetic for Han Xin, the real Han Xin was a scoundrel.

But it was a good film nonetheless. It is one of the better historical films since "The Emperor and the Assassin", "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", or "Hero" first introduced the West to Chinese cinema. They probably also influenced Red Cliff. Which was great as an action packed military epic but terrible history.

[Kyriakos]

China has also made a decent adaptation of the scifi novel, the three body problem. Though it is tens of episodes, and I didn't like the first book that much anyway ^^
Still worth a watch, story has some good elements and the bad parts of the book can't be adapted to screen as they are anyway.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

That is a strange thought. That China would remake Western classics. Imagine watching Chinese Star Wars or Chinese Titanic or something. Although I can't see that happening much other than a personal passion project. Chinese audiences don't really have an interest in Western cinema or culture. While China has nothing to gain by selling to the West since they are definitely unplugging from Western markets and Western goods.

[Kyriakos]

Three body was written by a Chinese person, although in English (edit: apparently, in Chinese...) It is fairly recent too.
More interestingly, netflix also has adapted it, but the chinese industry managed to present its own version first - and it's likely the chinese version is better (netflix one hasn't aired yet).