Ahsoka TV series!

[Kyriakos]

Imo when stuff like that happen, the story suffers terribly. Another example would be how in the dreadful House of the Dragon, that prince guy defeated 1000 enemies on his own

[alhoon]

Besides John Wick walks away a ton more serious injuries than Sabine did without what looks like a crap ton of advanced treatment.

You mean the guy that was shot and dropped from the top of a 20-story building on hard pavement (I think a drop even in pillows would be fatal from that height) and crawled away? PS. I haven't watched the last movie.

[conon394]

You mean the guy that was shot and dropped from the top of a 20-story building on hard pavement (I think a drop even in pillows would be fatal from that height) and crawled away? PS. I haven't watched the last movie.

Well yes that was the first thing that came mind and only see the first all the way through but in general he seems to take a of lot abuse and no sense of recovery time.

I mean overall I would say in a fantasy story back in the day Excalibur did a better job. Lancerlot wins his duel but as the greatest knight he should have finished off his opponent with ease - the wound from Excalibur real, magical and emotional was well played out and lead to him just barley avoiding defeat and is too fresh to be ignored.

-----

People should not forget even in real life some people get plot armour -

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6089630/

Anyway good capture in #38 the wound does seem peripheral.

Seems to me overall I was not forced to have to strain my disbelief too much. Overall we never see much of Luke's light saber work in the first three episodes. I mean people go down but what is the real damage vs just mission kill wounded and out action? Also Luke's Hoth wounds look umm really bad in total and but first rate medical care sees him through rather quickly.

OK canon says a run through can kill you - Phantom menace. But as the Alexander analysis points out a matter inches or less is sufficient for even ancient medicine to save you vs dying from some pretty nasty penetrations. Quick rewatch says Asoka showed up in time she was lucky . And I assume the ship had decent first aid equipment and quick ride to first class care was following.

[Kyriakos]

What's the point of running someone through with a lightsaber but not making sure they are dead? (eg that black sith suffered the same in Kenobi, and so did a whiter than white inquisitor).
It's just a lame ploy in story-writing

Not that the two older trilogies cared about realism.

[NorthernXY]

A laser beam wouldn't melt someone. It would cut through. It's how they do surgery with lasers.

Sabine was not hit in the torso.



A primitive people defeating a more technically advanced army in an ambush? No, not unprecedented.
300 stone age people defeating a modern army of thousands in several skirmishes and driving them off the planet? Yeap. Unprecedented. Wookies? Nope, they wouldn't win with sticks and rocks either. A single AT-ST walker should have been completely immune to logs hitting, or tripping on a few logs.

Um, I don't think you know the meaning of the word "torso", that is her torso, a simple search and you'll see you're wrong. Looks like it went through a kidney, which is part of the torso, might even be high enough to puncture her diaphragm, which is also part of the torso. A laser blast hits something, then dissipates its energy to anything close or in its trajectory all the while losing energy. A light saber is 18,000°C to 25,000°C, that's twice as hot as the temperature of the surface of the Sun. Getting a limb cut off with one is by far less dangerous than getting stabbed by one. From the clips I've seen the lightsaber was in her for around 5 seconds. During that time the lightsaber, which is twice as hot as the Sun, would constantly discharge unthinkable amounts of energy, vaporizing most of the blood, and burning/destroying all organs near by. The water vapor would expand so rapidly, she'd likely just blow up.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a biochemist who had to take quantum molecular thermodynamics.

EDIT: A lightsaber blade is 3-4 times as hot as the Sun's surface.

[conon394]

Um, I don't think you know the meaning of the word "torso", that is her torso, a simple search and you'll see you're wrong. Looks like it went through a kidney, which is part of the torso, might even be high enough to puncture her diaphragm, which is also part of the torso. A laser blast hits something, then dissipates its energy to anything close or in its trajectory all the while losing energy. A light saber is 18,000°C to 25,000°C, that's twice as hot as the temperature of the surface of the Sun. Getting a limb cut off with one is by far less dangerous than getting stabbed by one. From the clips I've seen the lightsaber was in her for around 5 seconds. During that time the lightsaber, which is twice as hot as the Sun, would constantly discharge unthinkable amounts of energy, vaporizing most of the blood, and burning/destroying all organs near by. The water vapor would expand so rapidly, she'd likely just blow up.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a biochemist who had to take quantum molecular thermodynamics.

Of course than you have to remind yourself Jedi are space wizards... if you going to worry about the nominal supposed heat of ligh saber than every time they open one they should be setting fires constantly and burning non jedi all time.

[conon394]

What's the point of running someone through with a lightsaber but not making sure they are dead? (eg that black sith suffered the same in Kenobi, and so did a whiter than white inquisitor).
It's just a lame ploy in story-writing

Not that the two older trilogies cared about realism.

Honestly depends if you are in a hurry or want somebody dead for real or want to languish. I could certainly see an argument that DV might leave somebody behind to languish on their failure would be reason to aim the thrust so as not kill outright. That she was up and running without first class EMS is a problem but than again I think Kenboi had more than its share of those. But Umm mentioning Darth there a sh--t tone less of him left when the Emperor showed up to fix him vs one small lght saber run through.

[Kyriakos]

I wasn't alluding to Darth, but to the various other glaring cases of the original (and prequel) trilogies already not caring at all (nor being able) to follow even basic physics.
The SW show was never realistic. It was marketed as movies for children originally - only later on it became something supposedly less... dumb ^^

Eg lots of people refer to the Holdo maneuvre and how it makes no sense (even if it is canon), since anything at the speed of light would obliterate even the death star (so no reason to have a special plan; just use your x-wing and warp to the the death star to take it out), but original SW is full of such ridiculous things too.

It's just bad space-opera. Not hard scifi or a serious story.

[NorthernXY]

Of course than you have to remind yourself Jedi are space wizards... if you going to worry about the nominal supposed heat of ligh saber than every time they open one they should be setting fires constantly and burning non jedi all time.

Qui-Gon Jinn says otherwise.

Again, getting a limb cut off would be less deadly than to get stabbed. The cut would/should be quick enough as to not depart lots of heat to cause the water to vaporize, but long enough to immediately cauterize the wound, preventing massive blood loss. Not accounting for the shock of suddenly losing an appendage.

A New Hope's cantina scene (EDIT, stupid auto-correct) where Kenobi cuts a guy's arm off and we see blood, can be attributed to George and Co. not yet fleshing out the world building. With Darth Maul getting cut in two, then showing up in Solo is obviously just a sign that Disney can't create (same with Palpatine returning), but it could be stupidly hand waved away that Darth Maul's species could survive that. Though the fall would most certainly have killed him.

[conon394]

Though the fall would most certainly have killed him.

Why in universe. Luke survived his fall in a pretty bad shape?

(same with Palpatine returning)

Don't know for real but was a thing in the books/comics/manga etc whatever and foreshadowed in his whole darth plagues monologue under Lucas control so no sure you got a shot here.

Qui-Gon Jinn says otherwise.

Got a different wound location and no apparent care.

[conon394]

I wasn't alluding to Darth, but to the various other glaring cases of the original (and prequel) trilogies already not caring at all (nor being able) to follow even basic physics.
The SW show was never realistic. It was marketed as movies for children originally - only later on it became something supposedly less... dumb ^^

Eg lots of people refer to the Holdo maneuvre and how it makes no sense (even if it is canon), since anything at the speed of light would obliterate even the death star (so no reason to have a special plan; just use your x-wing and warp to the the death star to take it out), but original SW is full of such ridiculous things too.

It's just bad space-opera. Not hard scifi or a serious story.

Umm Kyriakos its science fiction/fantasy.. "Hard sci fi" is kind of of myth too I really can't think of one. Take a deep breath and realize once you sat back and accepted virtually costless transfer out of atmosphere, jumping to hyperspace and the jedi and bad versions of them... umm real physicals arguments are pointless. Internally consistent story telling is and even with the most fantastical things it does require some foreshadowing.

You keep say aimed at kids and yet in many ways the Iliad is just as silly at many points.

[Kyriakos]

Let's not compare the homeric epics to Lucas or Disney ^^
But I do agree that any show (or book etc) needs to be internally consistent. And SW isn't that either. At least going from the original trilogy to now.

[alhoon]

A laser blast hits something, then dissipates its energy to anything close or in its trajectory all the while losing energy. A light saber is 18,000°C to 25,000°C, that's twice as hot as the temperature of the surface of the Sun.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a biochemist who had to take quantum molecular thermodynamics.

You really try to apply science in this?
If we go by that my friend, then HOLDING something that puts a beam of 25000 Celcius would be extremely dangerous as it would immediately melt / evaporate the metal and the air around it would catch fire. We stabilize plasma with other stuff and not let it come into contact with air.
Then, a laser blade would not stop at a certain length! It would go on until the energy was absorbed or particles and molecules of the air caused the beam to dissipate.

No, lightsabers DO NOT work like that. They are not warm. They do shed light.

And last but not least: the surface of the sun is estimated at 6000C.

[conon394]

Let's not compare the homeric epics to Lucas or Disney ^^
But I do agree that any show (or book etc) needs to be internally consistent. And SW isn't that either. At least going from the original trilogy to now.

Sorry if you are annoyed I'm taking a shot at the Iliad but will the the source leans heavy into Deus ex machina. In any case the comparison is apt what is the Iliad but snap shot of popular media that we have but a fragment of. The same could said of classical drama, comedy or novels which again we know for certain that we have but a random preservation of a tiny random portion of the original. Mind not necessarily what was the most popular but what a a select few people decided later to save.

But think about right now you are engaged in conversation on SW even though you have claimed to not like it. Its spawns memes and references all over popular culture across the world. Does Hedda Gabler - sorry for Ibsen - err no.

Again in this case I willing to say from just the visual media SW is pretty solid in having SAbine survie

[Kyriakos]

^^
In the case of drama, what we have isn't there for random reasons, but because those plays won in the competitions held those years. I mean, imagine some random person writing Oedipus the King; it's really on a class of its own and towers above anything else in drama (and perhaps not just in drama)
Likewise for most of the rest we have, eg The Bacchai, Medeia, Prometheus in Chains, the Oresteia, Antigone being very notable examples (but all still below Oedipus).

But ok, you are right that if SW was just irrelevant crap, I wouldn't be posting in the thread. But I did dislike it, ever since a friend from elementary school tried to make me watch it and I had to hide how bored I was (ok, I was paying attention for a couple of minutes, when the AT-AT walked in the snow, but that was all). He was very angry :o

[NorthernXY]

You really try to apply science in this?
If we go by that my friend, then HOLDING something that puts a beam of 25000 Celcius would be extremely dangerous as it would immediately melt / evaporate the metal and the air around it would catch fire. We stabilize plasma with other stuff and not let it come into contact with air.
Then, a laser blade would not stop at a certain length! It would go on until the energy was absorbed or particles and molecules of the air caused the beam to dissipate.

No, lightsabers DO NOT work like that. They are not warm. They do shed light.

And last but not least: the surface of the sun is estimated at 6000C.

My bad, it's 10,000 °F, things got jumbled up in my head. Once had a physicist try to explain to me there is something below Absolute Zero (0 Kelvin), naturally heavy drinking was involved.

I know all that, which is why Star Wars is Science Fantasy rather than Science Fiction. The only thing I can think of to explain why a lightsaber's blade doesn't go on forever is wave cancellation, and that's a pretty bad guess.

I'm a scientist, I approach everything using the Scientific Method.

Why in universe. Luke survived his fall in a pretty bad shape?

Don't know for real but was a thing in the books/comics/manga etc whatever and foreshadowed in his whole darth plagues monologue under Lucas control so no sure you got a shot here.

Got a different wound location and no apparent care.

It's been a while since I've watched The Empire Strikes Back, but I believe the bottom of the pit was curved, allowing him to slowly come to a stop like a slide or a skateboard ramp rather than having the wall 90° angle to the floor. The second Death Star had a radius of 200 kilometers or 200,000 meters (at least that's what the latest theory among nerds think). Terminal velocity face down/parallel to the ground is around 55 m/s. That means it would have taken him at least 3,636 seconds, or about an hour, to reach the middle of the 2nd Death Star. Luke and Vader would be looking over that balcony for a long time.

I think the wound locations are pretty close. Still, you literally didn't know what a torso is. That's like 1st grade stuff.

[Kyriakos]

Qin's cause of death was that he had to die in the script. Sabine and various others didn't die because the script said they don't.
It's what happens in stories where continuity isn't an issue. Of course it has the consequence that now people don't take being run through by a lightsaber seriously, which sort of ruins the dramatic element - the cause of death is outside.

[mishkin]

It's mostly hate watching from people who hate Disney and Kathleen Kennedy, and used to love Star Wars (or anything else that used to be good) before wokeness took over. KK killed Star Wars, Indiana Jones, resurrected Willow just to kill it.

Same with the Marvel movies, turns out Kevin Fiege is actually a pretty terrible creator. Remember, Disney didn't create the MCU, they bought it after Ironman and The Incredible Hulk (with Ironman 2 in the works) were produced.

Huh? What woke influence? I haven't seen anything woke-ish. The show is not preaching anything same as Mandalorian, Kenobi, Bobba Fett and Andor were not preaching anything.

EDIT: I think and think and think, and I can't figure what you refer as "woke influence". I think that if you see woke influence there, you are trying too hard. This is nothing like the indeed-woke Last Jedi.

I would be very interested in this conversation.

[conon394]

I'm a scientist, I approach everything using the Scientific Method.

Seems like a bummer. For you - married to a scientist, best friends umm err scientists they don't do the same - particularly with escapist fiction. I hope you did not read Peace by Aristophanes and complain the dung beetle could never be fed enough to fly Trygaeus to visit the gods.

I know all that, which is why Star Wars is Science Fantasy rather than Science Fiction. The only thing I can think of to explain why a lightsaber's blade doesn't go on forever is wave cancellation, and that's a pretty bad guess.

What is the point and why have not also equally wasting your time of FTL travel and space worms that live in asteroids or blaster themselves or why a light saber can defect their bolts but can be stopped by other stuff? Again Internal consistency based on what is shown seems the point of argument not applying real life science.

Sorry on Luke falling (ESB) it was some kind of anti grave catch and suck into a different shaft that saved him - maybe a safety device but than explain that via science? But one that then dropped to bottom of the station in a exit port that involved him damaging a communication array - clearly one set by a disgruntled programmer/engineer.

------------------

Qin's cause of death was that he had to die in the script. Sabine and various others didn't die because the script said they don't.
It's what happens in stories where continuity isn't an issue. Of course it has the consequence that now people don't take being run through by a lightsaber seriously, which sort of ruins the dramatic element - the cause of death is outside.

I don't that conclusion holds. Even Qui hung around for a fair while after being run through. Luke survived a ton of damage and the tank got him back on his feet in time it for the Imperial fleet under Vader to get the probe droid message.

[NorthernXY]

I would be very interested in this conversation.

KK has openly stated she wants to move past George's Star Wars and make it female focused. Hell, she even made special shirts (one specifically for herself) that stated "The Force is Female" when before it was not affiliated with any sex, like Qi in eastern Asia or the Orks and gods in Warhammer 40k. I saw a YouTube clip where Steven Spielberg says there a three people who made Indiana Jones possible: George Lucas, Harrison Ford, then pauses to say that the last person is what helped continuity and was the glue throughout the five movies, setting up KK, who is on stage with him, to think it's her. So you/she thinks he's about to say her name, but then mic drops John Williams. KK's husband then comes and tries to escort her off stage. Hilarious. Women are allowed Barbie to be their own thing, they're not reimaging Ken dolls for boys, as they shouldn't, each sex needs their own space, like fraternities and sororities.

Thanks to wokeness we'll never get another Shawshank Redemption or John Carpenter's The Thing, because they don't have any women in them, unless you count those "God damn posters". "Modern" audiences would call them misogynists. Now we have lots of race swapping and sex swapping, but it almost always goes in one direction*. They're tearing men down to build women up. Things that used to be more for male audiences than female, are becoming female focused. We can sex swap Ghostbusters to an all female led movie, but if someone was to remake Alien with a male as the protagonist, women and men would be up in arms.

The movie Thor race swapped lots of people, $hiting on Nordic/Germanic mythology and history. In the movie Avengers: End Game they made Thor's PTSD (he's lost his brother, father, mother, "sister", friends, most of his people, and his home) into a running joke, they'd never do that with a woman because it would be called misogynist. A couple women I talked to about it, said they thought it was funny. When I replied would it be okay if I laughed at a rape victim's PTSD? They both got offended. The Witcher on Netflix is another great example of race swapping that makes no sense. It's a Polish story, set in a Europe-like fictional land yet there are black people everywhere with no explanation. The books have people who aren't white, but they're from foreign lands and there aren't that much of them because traveling in Medieval times took a long time and was dangerous.

There aren't any good comedy movies anymore because everything has to be PC or else someone might get offended. Luckily we have some comedians like Dave Chapelle who gained stardom and money before being woke was a thing, so he doesn't give a F. If you've seen Hannah Gadsby's stand-up comedy, I pity you. She doesn't tell jokes, just complains about men the whole time.

While not a movie, the computer RPG Kingdom Come: Deliverance was criticized for not having any black people in it, no complaints about not having Indians, Middle Easterners, or east Asians in the game, who would be more likely to be seen because of trade. The game is set in 1400 Bohemian country side, of course there would be no black people in it. Just like there should be no white people in the move Apocalypto, at least until the very end. I don't get offended that there are only Asian people in most Asian movies, especially historical ones.

*The Ancient One, played by Tilda Swinton, in the movie Dr. Strange was race and sex swapped from a Tibetan male monk to a Celtic female as to appease our Chinese overlords.

EDIT: Forgot, now we have girls allowed in Boy Scouts, but boys aren't allowed in Girl Scouts because they need their own space and not worry about men. "Equality is a one way street".