Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Muizer]

October 7th was (is being) an episode, everyone here has said that it was an atrocity committed by fanatics. I get the impression (I may be too slow to understand you) that what you have been saying this last month is that the attack of October 7 erases everything that happened previously, Israel has been brutally attacked and thus they have the right to respond with absolute brutality on a population that is the daughter of October 7 and not of the Nakba or any other massacre.

This is not what I have been saying. I have been highlighting the role of Hamas as a de facto state-actor. I have clearly stated exactly what IMHO should make them international pariahs. It is actually quite simple and comes down to 3 unassailable arguments:

1) Would the war in Gaza have happened if not for the attacks of 7/10 ? The answer is 'no'

2) Was a bloodbath in Gaza's densely populated areas inevitable once the fight moved there? The answer is "Yes"*.

3) Was it a deliberate and planned strategy by Hamas to do exactly that? The answer is 'yes'.

* The only way to avoid a bloodbath would have been for Israel to be deterred by an enemy state actor using its own people as human shields. If you hear people mentioning the a country's right to defend itself, this is what's being referred to, and it is quite independent of whether that country has gained or lost ground in a long running conflict.

In other words, feel free to criticize the methods of the IDF, but the fact that there's a bloodbath in Gaza is all on the heads of Hamas and it was their deliberate choice.

[Infidel144]

Unlike the Turks, the brave Houthis are active in their support for the muminun of Gaza, even challenging the great Satan, Top Gun style:

"Allah is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"

"In a video, Iran-backed Houthis dared the United States after Washington formed a 10-nation patrol team to counter attacks in the Red Sea. The Houthis have been mounting attacks on vessels passing through the Red Sea. They say the attacks are linked to Israel's bombardment of Gaza."


2:88-90 They say, ‘Our hearts are uncircumcised.’ Rather, Allah has cursed them for their kufr. What little
iman they have!
When a Book does come to them from Allah, confirming what is with them – even though before that they
were praying for victory over the kafirun – yet when what they recognise does come to them, they reject it.
Allah’s curse is on the kafirun.
What an evil thing they have sold themselves for in rejecting what Allah has sent down, outraged that Allah
should send down His favour on whichever of His slaves He wills. They have brought down anger upon anger
on themselves. The kafirun will have a humiliating punishment.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Myself, I'd rather if Israel checked itself and stopped this operation. Sure, they "haven't destroyed Hamas" yet, but they destroyed tens of thousands of lives. And again, regardless of deep-seated hatred being a reason for some people to be against Israel, I have to imagine it's not the case for (the majority in) Eu/US and similar.

Do you not realise that if this operation stops now another war will happen in the very near future?

[PointOfViewGun]

Maybe, but over here I too often see people voicing perspectives on this particular episode that disregard, gloss over or even excuse the nature and actions of Hamas specifically. This is done by placing the Israeli actions in Gaza in the context of ongoing repression of Palestinians over the past 70 years, trying to depict 7/10 as just a brief flaring up of 'resistance'. But this brief 'flare up' has revealed Hamas to be worse monsters than Israel has ever been. And that's not about numbers, but about mentality. All that seems to save them from universal loathing is that they haven't had the capability to carry through their actions to the desired goal.

Quite the opposite is happening. Israeli camp wants to evaluate October 7 in a vacuum as you seem to be doing here. What Hamas did on October 7 is not even the worst episode of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It merely mirrors the conduct of both parties that happened in the early years of the conflict. The difference? Israel came on top and those very same groups that participated in massacres back then became the Israeli military of today. We see a similar mentality in the Israeli army, politicians, journalists, etc. as well. There is a lot of genocidal rhetoric going on there. Israeli army's campaign in Gaza and the supporting rhetoric that comes from Israel also reveals them to be who they really are and their mentality. Just like material means may bar Hamas from carrying out their goals, Israel's need for their place in the international community bars them from carrying out their goals.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

What Hamas did on October 7 is not even the worst episode of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

What was worse?

[Infidel144]

What was worse?

Jews winning back in 48.
There is even a word for it. Nakba, catastrophe.
The catastrophe being that the muslims failed to annihilate the jews...

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Jews winning back in 48.
There is even a word for it. Nakba, catastrophe.
The catastrophe being that the muslims failed to annihilate the jews...

Skill issue.

[PointOfViewGun]

What was worse?

Are you saying series of massacres did not happen in late 1940s which resulted in hundreds of Palestinian villages depopulated (later razed and Hebraized) and hundreds of thousands of Palestinian displaced that pretty much created the Gaza problem?

Jews winning back in 48.
There is even a word for it. Nakba, catastrophe.
The catastrophe being that the muslims failed to annihilate the jews...

This is yet an other prime example of selective optics that the Israeli camp wants us to use.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Are you saying series of massacres did not happen in late 1940s which resulted in hundreds of Palestinian villages depopulated (later razed and Hebraized) and hundreds of thousands of Palestinian displaced that pretty much created the Gaza problem?

Sure, if you compare a nearly 10 month long war to a single day/event the numbers there are higher. However, no single day (or event) during that war matches 7/10, neither by scale nor by the sheer brutality of the atrocities.

[PointOfViewGun]

Sure, if you compare a nearly 10 month long war to a single day/event the numbers there are higher. However, no single day (or event) during that war matches 7/10, neither by scale nor by the sheer brutality of the atrocities.

I have to downgrade my scope from an episode to a day to appease you? Not really gonna. However, if you consider the changes in population sizes the Deir Yassin massacre alone is quite comparable to the October 7 attack. Back then similar massacres were happening back and forth killing dozens of people. Irgun's attacks back then are not that dissimilar to Hamas. Because Israel won Irgun got absorbed to Israeli army and lead to today's Likud party that's been part of the government ever since.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Yes, Deir Yassin with its 117 deaths is comparable. Numbers wise, however, more died at Be’eri alone, not to mention other locations such as the Re’im music festival (364 killed). I also like you saying ‘Deir Yasin massacre alone’, as though that wasn’t the most infamous one. The only two worse in that war were the massacre of Kfar Ezion (157 Jews killed) and the expulsion of Lydda (disputed, 250+), though in the latter most deaths seem to have been fighters (up for debate).


Irguns attacks weren’t that dissimilar to Hamas?? How can you even write such bile?

[Infidel144]

Skill issue.

Hmmm...
I guess the massacres and pogroms of the jews in the area going back a century (and more) did not give adequate experience to the muslims (or it conditioned the jews)...

[Ludicus]

Enjoy.

On the Harey Zahav company's page various real estate developments located in Israeli settlements in the West Bank are promoted: Emanuel, Kedem - Avnei Hepetz, Reichan, Dotan, Neriah, etc. Most of the images are real (of constructions already completed on the ground) and depict houses that are for sale "on the market." ( follow the link provided).

The image in question of the houses in the Gaza Strip is different: it is not real but consists of the simulation of a project that is in the planning phase: "We at Harey Zahav are working and preparing the ground for the return to Gush Katif," emphasizes the announcement. "We hope that in the near future, all hostages will be safely returned to their families, our soldiers will come home, and we can begin construction in the Gaza Strip, throughout Gush Katif."
Gush Katif was a block of Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip, dismantled in 2005.

The Portuguese newspaper "Público" asked Miriam Swirsky, a Hebrew professor at the Faculty of Social and Human Sciences at the Universidade Nova de Lisboa, to translate the real estate announcement, which says at the top: "Having a house on the beach is not a dream! At Harvey Zahav, we are working to prepare the return to Gush Katif."

The CEO of Harey Zahav, when confronted by the media, responded with unsurpassable cynicism, stating that it is "a kind of satirical idea."

Perversity knows no bounds,







---
On Harvey Zahav's news page you can also read It's only a matter of time until there will be millions of Jews in Judea and Samaria

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Nothing about it on their website, Hebrew or English. Someone's just trolling.

[Ludicus]

Nothing about it on their website, Hebrew or English. Someone's just trolling.

Not anymore, of course.It's true. It was an official Instagram page of the Israeli real estate company, which is no longer available, confirmed by the newspaper Publico. The CEO of Harey Zahav, according to the Israeli newspaper Hareetz and the French newspaper "20 minutes", said that it was a joke.
Edit, do you know French? Guerre Hamas-Israël : Une société israélienne publie des images d ...

Ces images sont de vrais visuels publiés par une entreprise immobilière israélienne, nommée Harey Zahav (Montagnes d’Or) sur son compte Instagram, les 11 et 13 décembre 2023.

To Haaretz, as I mentioned, the CEO said it was a "satirical idea".

And it's no secret what they and many Israelis want,have you already forgotten? It's only a matter of time until there will be millions of Jews in Judea and Samaria

Part of the article:
“We’re not afraid,” she says, “to be honest, we feel more secure in Shamula than in Jerusalem, which also sometimes has tensions.
Although in the center everything is closer and available, the way we raise the children, the community, the education, the spaces and the view are worth the move.
And this is the best decision we made”…

[Infidel144]

A chemical tanker in the Indian Ocean was hit by a drone launched from Iran on Saturday, the US military says.

A fire on board the Chem Pluto was extinguished. There were no casualties.
Iran has not commented. Houthi rebels in Yemen - who are backed by Iran and support Hamas in its war with Israel - have recently used drones and rockets to target vessels in the Red Sea.
But this event is the first of its kind so far away from there, according to maritime security firm Ambrey.
The same company also said the vessel was heading from Saudi Arabia to India, and was linked to Israel. The Houthis have claimed to be targeting Israel-linked vessels over the conflict in Gaza.
The US said the Chem Pluto was hit by "a one-way attack drone fired from Iran". It is believed to be the first time the US has publicly accused Iran of targeting a ship directly.
It has previously accused Iran of being "deeply involved" in planning operations against commercial vessels in the Red Sea - a charge Tehran has denied.
However, Iran's Revolutionary Guards have warned they could force the closure of waterways other than the Red Sea if "America and its allies continue committing crimes" in Gaza.
The Pentagon statement said the Chem Pluto, "a Liberia-flagged, Japanese-owned, and Netherlands-operated chemical tanker", was struck on Saturday at 10:00 local time (06:00 GMT). The hit caused structural damage.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-67811929


A Gabon-flagged commercial tanker carrying 25 Indian crew members came under a drone attack in the Southern Red Sea, but there was no casualty, Indian officials said Sunday.
As per the US Central Command, the vessel MV Sai Baba, was attacked by a drone launched by Houthi militants in the Southern Red Sea on Saturday, along with another Norwegian-flagged tanker.
The US military’s statement comes a day after merchant vessel MV Chem Pluto, with around 21 Indian crew members, was hit by a suspected drone about 200 nautical miles southwest of Veraval, Gujarat, in the Arabian sea. There was an explosion and a fire reported on the vessel and the Indian Navy and the Indian Coast Guard had pressed their assets to assist the vessel. All the crew members were safe.
https://indianexpress.com/article/in...d-sea-9081199/

[mishkin]

In the Iberian Peninsula we are ready to close maritime traffic through the Strait of Gibraltar as soon as the Iranian authorities tell us. Allahu Akbar and merry christmas yo everyone.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Good thing the British own Gibraltar then

[mishkin]

. Well we are also working on it.

[fkizz]

Seems all that effort to finally get past across Cabo das Tormentas and turn it into Cabo da Boa Esperança was for something.