Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Kyriakos]

Yeah we discussed that kind of arithmetic before. I don't think it works like that. Or should the US have stopped fighting the Japanese the moment they cancelled out the casualties of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor?

If that was so, then I expect you'd have no issue if all 2 million palestinians in Gaza died? And if not, why does it work now and not then, when it's not about arithmetic?
Trying to allow you to think yourself of why such glaringly inconsistent statements are made.

[sumskilz]

Hamas did target multiple Israeli military sites for which they have been known to be training for.

They attacked one military base, one military observation post (that had mostly unarmed female soldiers in it), two border crossing checkpoints, a music festival, a city, and eleven towns/kibbutzim. Civilian targets were clearly their priority.

[PointOfViewGun]

They attacked one military base, one military observation post (that had mostly unarmed female soldiers in it), two border crossing checkpoints, a music festival, a city, and eleven towns/kibbutzim. Civilian targets were clearly their priority.

Thank you for acknowledging that there were military targets. Can you tell me why you chose not to respond to Muizer instead who claimed that there were no military targets?

On the other hand, while it is known that Israelis knew the threat to the festival and stayed silent about it, Hamas likely stumbled upon the festival by chance. Not sure why you would mention an observation point containing female soldiers. Freudian slip? The lack of intelligent thought concerning your suggestion that unarmed soldiers manned the military observation point has little value as well.

By city you're referring to Sderot, right?

[sumskilz]

Not sure why you would mention an observation point containing female soldiers. Freudian slip? The lack of intelligent thought concerning your suggestion that unarmed soldiers manned the military observation point has little value as well.

If their goal was to capture as many soldiers as possible, it's odd that out of nearly 250 hostages, only 26 were soldiers, most of them female. In the interrogation videos, Hamas militants said their orders were to kill anyone who was difficult and capture those who were easy to control - women, children, elderly. Although, they still killed more of the aforementioned than they captured anyway. The observation post was itself a legitimate military target, and it made sense to capture it because it was where the border fence was monitored from. Of course, it would have helped to blind the Israeli response, so that they could have their way with their civilian targets. Since it was 24 mostly unarmed soldiers, it was also a soft target. They generally avoided anywhere where they encountered serious resistance. In other words, they only attacked military targets to the extent that doing so was necessary to facilitate their operation against the civilian population.

[PointOfViewGun]

If their goal was to capture as many soldiers as possible, it's odd that out of nearly 250 hostages, only 26 were soldiers, most of them female. In the interrogation videos, Hamas militants said their orders were to kill anyone who was difficult and capture those who were easy to control - women, children, elderly. Although, they still killed more of the aforementioned than they captured anyway. The observation post was itself a legitimate military target, and it made sense to capture it because it was where the border fence was monitored from. Of course, it would have helped to blind the Israeli response, so that they could have their way with their civilian targets. Since it was 24 mostly unarmed soldiers, it was also a soft target. They mostly avoided places where they encountered serious resistance.

Hamas is no more honourable than the Israeli army. I wouldn't expect that to focus solely on getting Israeli soldiers as hostages. Can't find a comprehensive report but there doesn't seem to be the trend you're selling here that most of the hostages are women. Perhaps you are mistaken about it since Hamas has been releasing hostages based on the Palestinian hostages Israel release which tends to be children and women.

I also didn't ask about your further thoughts on the observation post being a legitimate target. I pointed out your use of language concerning female soldiers and the idea that they were somehow unarmed (as well as your failure to correct Muizer directly) which you are not really addressing. I understand that you're attempting to trivialize Hamas actually targeting military targets. They breached the fences in over 30 locations, attacked remote controlled machine gun locations (yes, its a thing), sieged military installations (Nahal Oz and Re'im among the ones we know given the severity of the fighting occurred within their limits) and moved into a number of kibbutz to grab hostages that they could trade with Palestinians being held by Israeli forces. They didn't really avoid places where they encountered serious resistance. They simply failed in those locations which is why we don't hear much about the other bases they attacked (especially in the north). Over 1,500 Hamas fighters didn't disappear into thin during the raid.

By the way, can you tell how many Israelis live near the Gaza Strip?

[Kyriakos]

Imo it is rather clear that Hamas is a terrorist organization, whether honestly muslim or not is beyond the point and doesn't even matter, they are terrorist.
But it should never be hard to realize that Hamas isn't the river of people Israel has massacred in Gaza, including over 10.000 kids.
Claiming "we only do it to remove Hamas" simply does not cut it.

[Muizer]

If that was so, then I expect you'd have no issue if all 2 million palestinians in Gaza died? And if not, why does it work now and not then, when it's not about arithmetic?
Trying to allow you to think yourself of why such glaringly inconsistent statements are made.

To revisit something I said just a few posts back:

The best effort expected of combatants to avoid harm to civilians exists within a context where legitimate military targets exist and can be pursued.

So of course I'd have issues if 2 million palestinians in Gaza died. That would mean large scale attacks on non-military targets. Call me a cynic, but I do not think that can be deduced from the civilian death toll we're seeing. The use of high explosives in urban warfare and disruption of critical infrastructure is quite enough.