Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Pinarius]

I've only recently heard of the so called Red Cows and that they are even connected to the Hamas attack on October 7:

Jerusalem — When Hamas spokesman Abu Ubaida began a speech marking the 100th day of the war in Gaza, one confounding yet eye-opening proclamation escaped the headlines. Listing the motives for the Palestinian militant group's Oct. 7 massacre in Israel, he accused Jews of "bringing red cows" to the Holy Land.

The cows he was talking about are red heifers, which now graze at a secure, undisclosed location in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Some Jews and Christians believe they're key to rebuilding the Jewish temple that once stood in Jerusalem, and to beckoning the Messiah.

To understand, you have to look back almost 2,000 years in the tumultuous history of the Middle East, when the ancient Romans destroyed the last temple in Jerusalem.

To rebuild it, fervent believers point to the Bible's Book of Numbers, which commands the Israelites to offer "a red heifer without defect or blemish and that has never been under a yoke."

Only with that offering, they insist, can the temple rise again.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-...emple-al-aqsa/

[Ludicus]

Sorry, but I think the people living in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand had it worse when U.S. was mercilessly bombing them for over 10 years.Not trying to minimize the suffering of Palestinians, but this sort of human misery is really nothing new. Which is sad.

I would say, its even worse-proportionally- because in Gaza the weaponization of food reaches unprecedented levels.Israel's strategy is to ensure that those who do survive the bombs are condemned to die, or to a future without sustenance.Look happened to the W.C.Kitchen World Central Kitchen halts operations in Gaza after strike

And you know what? I watched the latest UN Security Council meeting live and, after listening to the statements made by the representatives of the United States, the United Kingdom and France, I stopped watching. I no longer have any doubts about the bleak future that awaits the "sub-humans" of Palestine.

[AqD]

Not trying to minimize the suffering of Palestinians, but this sort of human misery is really nothing new. Which is sad.

The sooner a conflict ends the shorter the pain. Since Palestinians have no chance to force a fair negotiation, only a complete occupation and disarming could achieve that.

[mishkin]

The sooner a conflict ends the shorter the pain.

a blitzkrieg fan? same goes for Ukraine?

Since Palestinians have no chance to force a fair negotiation

It's okay for you to say that on the other side (israel) there is no interest in a fair negotiation. Fortunately (silver lining), the Israeli madness is difficult to defend even by former staunch allies, international pressure may achieve something.

By the way, Israel is responsible for the international escalation of what in principle should have been an anti-terrorist operation. They even had the "legitimacy" to be a little excessive in their response, they seemed to decide that october 7 would be the beginning of Greater Israel, Israel's dominion over all its neighbors or something like that, difficult to know right now where they will/want to stop.

[Muizer]

They even had the "legitimacy" to be a little excessive in their response, they seemed to decide that october 7 would be the beginning of Greater Israel, Israel's dominion over all its neighbors or something like that, difficult to know right now where they will/want to stop.

double post surprise

[Muizer]

They even had the "legitimacy" to be a little excessive in their response, they seemed to decide that october 7 would be the beginning of Greater Israel, Israel's dominion over all its neighbors or something like that, difficult to know right now where they will/want to stop.

You know, there's been a lot of talk with big words about Israel's intentions after 7/10. Most of them are just rhetoric by people with fixed ideological trajectories whose soap boxes were well worn long before. People committed to one side or the other in the information war. There's even some who think this internet backwater is on the front-line Reality, as usual, is that current affairs are 99% expedience from which historians concoct some sort of narrative only after the fact. In this case the obvious expedience is Netanyahu's precarious hold on power. It has been dictating the course of the war from one moment to the next. Some of it happened to align with 'legitimacy' (to defend his country from an aggressive de facto state actor) others align with war crimes (causing and worsening the humanitarian crisis). It's these things that make history intractable. Imagine people a century from now trying to find some broader context in which 9/11 lead to the second Iraq war. Without understanding the expediency of the moment, their attempts are likely to end up being a ideologically driven misrepresentations of what actually happened.

[AqD]

a blitzkrieg fan? same goes for Ukraine?

Supporting them is in NATO's strategic interest.

What reason do we have to really support Palestinians?

It's okay for you to say that on the other side (israel) there is no interest in a fair negotiation.

And why would they?

To negotiate you need cards. Palestinian government is a joke, their allies are all losers and their military is made of clowns good only at scaring children.


Do not cite laws. Guns and friends are what protect countries on the international stage.

[mishkin]

This site is not working today

@Muizer: Netanyahu is not some kind of alien who has taken power in Israel, and Israeli society and government clearly do not see the escalation as something "alien"/crazy. It was not planned, but it was not at all inconceivable, part of Israeli society (I don't know if twenty or eighty percent of it) has always considered itself besieged by enemies that it had to destroy.

@AqD: We support the Palestinians because they are being massacred/to prevent their genocide.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

If this were a genocide the casualty figure after 6 months of fighting would be much higher. At this rate of casualties it would take another 39 years to kill the population of Gaza, and that's if you don't count any births. If you think that's plausible then.. lol.

[mishkin]

"Israel is not doing it fast enough that it can be considered genocide."

[nhytgbvfeco2]

"Israel is not doing it fast enough that it can be considered genocide."

You seriously believe Israel intends to keep this war going for 39 more years..?

[mishkin]

You seriously believe Israel intends to keep this war going for 39 more years..?

Is this your argument to deny genocide? What definitions of genocide are you using? Are you referring to Israel's intentionality? I find talking about decimation capabilities aberrant, seriously. "It is not genocide because in six months we have only killed and expelled from their homes X hundreds of thousands of palestinians". With what figures do you think we could begin to talk about genocide?

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Is this your argument to deny genocide? What definitions of genocide are you using?

"the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

Are you referring to Israel's intentionality? I find talking about decimation capabilities aberrant, seriously. "It is not genocide because in six months we have only killed and expelled from their homes X hundreds of thousands of palestinians". With what figures do you think we could begin to talk about genocide?

Ones where it won't take nearly 4 decades to complete it. If the aim was to destroy the group, Israel has the means to do so much, much faster than this. For example, it would just carpet bomb Gaza without sending in any land forces. Why would it send land forces? Why is it allowing aid into the strip? Why is it allowing NGO's to operate in the strip?

[Muizer]

Why is it allowing aid into the strip? Why is it allowing NGO's to operate in the strip?

As far as I can tell, it pretty much is not allowing NGO's to operate in Gaza to provide aid. Not that it would enough to just passively permit it.

Not that any of that amounts to Genocide. But, you know, genocide has that extra bite that 'war crimes' just doesn't, especially when Jews are implicated. Would be such a missed opportunity not to use it ..... /S

[nhytgbvfeco2]

At the very least, WCK operated in Gaza, which was recently in the news for all the wrong reasons, sadly.

[mishkin]

"the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

The definition is a little broader, but still that is what Israel is doing in Gaza with the excuse of terrorism.

No one expects the Israeli government to declare that it wants to kill/expell most Palestinians from Gaza.

Why do you think it is not genocide to kill tens of thousands of people belonging to an ethnic group and make the area in which they lived completely uninhabitable, forcing migration to camps and making living conditions subhuman?

[Muizer]

Why do you think it is not genocide to kill tens of thousands of people belonging to an ethnic group and make the area in which they lived completely uninhabitable, forcing migration to camps and making living conditions subhuman?

Genocide is when the physical destruction of (parts of) an ethnical, racial or religious group is a goal in itself. Evidently this is near impossible to prove for areas where active combat is taking place. In the areas it controls now, though, Israel is really seeking out the outer fringes of plausible deniability by only letting in a trickle of international aid, barring access to aid shipments for often blatantly contrived reasons and apparently taking no action whatsoever to make up the deficit of its own accord.

[mishkin]

I was reading that the Kurdish genocide (infinitely more brutal than whatever you want to call what is happening in Gaza) is not officially recognized as genocide. My faith in humanity just dropped another ten points.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

The definition is a little broader, but still that is what Israel is doing in Gaza with the excuse of terrorism.

Do you seriously believe that Israel's aim is to destroy the entire population of Gaza? Like actually?

Why do you think it is not genocide to kill tens of thousands of people belonging to an ethnic group and make the area in which they lived completely uninhabitable, forcing migration to camps and making living conditions subhuman?

Are only members of a certain ethnic group being targeted, specifically? Or is it just that it's a warzone and the entire local population is hurt by the ongoing war, regardless of their ethnicity?

[mishkin]

Do I have to tell you what the situation is currently like in Gaza? Haven't you seen the images of devastated cities, children killed, malnourished newborns? Don't you know that absolutely the entire press talks about devastation?

It is not genocide, it is a merciless anti-terrorist operation operation to free hostages war in an area where a specific ethnic group happens to live (surprise).