Thread: Hamas attacks southern Israel

  1. #2241
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Do I have to tell you what the situation is currently like in Gaza? Haven't you seen the images of devastated cities, children killed, malnourished newborns? Don't you know that absolutely the entire press talks about devastation?
    I'm well aware of the situation. If it continues for another 39 years at the same pace then one could make the argument that the intent is genocide. For some reason though, I doubt this will continue for nearly 4 more decades, so clearly there won't be a genocide.
    It is not genocide, it is a merciless anti-terrorist operation operation to free hostages war in an area where a specific ethnic group happens to live (surprise).
    You say this as if this war started because one day Israel randomly decided "huh, you know, there's a bunch of people from a specific ethnic group in Gaza. let's go kill them!", when in reality this war started with Hamas invading Israel and massacaring civilians.
    Members of the same ethnic group also live in Israel, with fully equal rights, which wouldn't be the case if the goal was to genocide said ethnic group.

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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    It's only a genocide if it's from the genocide region of France, otherwise it's just sparkling killing, starving and displacing millions of people who just so happen to belong to an ethnic-national group you don't like.

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    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Yes, meanwhile other people who belong to that same ethnic group live as equals within your country. Almost like ethnicity has nothing to do with anything here. To make the claim that the motivation is an ethnicity it takes a bit more than 'be at war with a country that has a majority belonging to an ethnic group', you guys realise that right? Because spoiler alert, most wars are fought against countries that have an ethnic majority of some kind.

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    Israel doesn't have to be targeting all Palestinians everywhere at the same time in order to be committing genocide against Palestinians.

    Genocide can also be committed against only a part of the group, as long as that part is identifiable (including within a geographically limited area) and “substantial.”

    United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention
    The genocide is being committed against Palestinians in Gaza specifically, for obvious reasons: they've been the most "troublesome" Palestinians in the last 20 years, and it's a lot easier to get away with destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions of innocent civilians in a warzone like Gaza than it would be in Tel Aviv. In fact, genocide most often takes place in the context of an armed conflict in which civilian suffering can be spun as merely an unfortunate side effect of some "legitimate" action like counter-terrorism or rebel suppression.

    Killing of Naheda and Samr Anton - Wikipedia

    On 16 December 2023, two Palestinian Christians, Naheda Anton and her daughter Samr Anton, were shot and killed while walking inside the grounds of the Holy Family Church to go to the bathroom during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war.

    The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem said: “Nahida and her daughter Samar were shot and killed as they walked to the Sister’s Convent. One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety. Seven more people were shot and wounded as they tried to protect others inside the church compound. No warning was given, no notification was provided. They were shot in cold blood inside the premises of the Parish, where there are no belligerents.”


    Following an investigation, the IDF said that Hamas had fired an RPG from the vicinity of the church, and that IDF soldiers had fired back and hit Hamas spotters.

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    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozam View Post
    Israel doesn't have to be targeting all Palestinians everywhere at the same time in order to be committing genocide against Palestinians.



    The genocide is being committed against Palestinians in Gaza specifically, for obvious reasons: they've been the most "troublesome" Palestinians in the last 20 years, and it's a lot easier to get away with destroying the lives and livelihoods of millions of innocent civilians in a warzone like Gaza than it would be in Tel Aviv. In fact, genocide most often takes place in the context of an armed conflict in which civilian suffering can be spun as merely an unfortunate side effect of some "legitimate" action like counter-terrorism or rebel suppression.
    That's very flimsy, and not nearly enough to make the case for genocide. One wouldn't say Saudi Arabia and the UAE are genociding Yemeni's by fighting in Yemen (even though more children there starved to death than the total number of dead in Gaza), or that Turkey is genociding Syrians by invading Syria, etc.
    The killing of two women hardly makes a case for genocide, regardless of how unfortunate it is. Are you bringing up an example of Christians in the hopes it would garner more sympathy?

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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    Genocide is when the physical destruction of (parts of) an ethnical, racial or religious group is a goal in itself. Evidently this is near impossible to prove for areas where active combat is taking place. In the areas it controls now, though, Israel is really seeking out the outer fringes of plausible deniability by only letting in a trickle of international aid, barring access to aid shipments for often blatantly contrived reasons and apparently taking no action whatsoever to make up the deficit of its own accord.
    Israel doesn’t really have control of the populated areas of Gaza. The IDF initially entered the strip with 26 brigades to take control of the area north of the Wadi Gaza, but for economic reasons the reserves have long since been sent home, while other units have been repositioned along the Lebanon border. For months now, the IDF has had no more than 4 brigades in Gaza, 3 of which were in Khan Yunis. Now the IDF only has one brigade left in the territory, which is holding a narrow strip along the Wadi Gaza that separates the north from the south.

    The food shortages in Gaza have been in the north, which is an area Israel has controlled access to since early in the war, but has had no direct control over for months. Until recently, food shipments were all entering in the south, either from Egypt at Rafah or through the Kerem Shalom crossing. According to COGAT (the Israeli government agency in charge), more food has been entering across the Kerem Shalom crossing than NGOs have the capacity to distribute, so it has been backed up there.

    Many people are without food because Hamas and other militant groups are seizing the aid and selling it, and few want to face the risks of distributing aid. Egyptian aid truck drivers have been killed for example. Israel had preferred to work with WCK because it was seen as apolitical, whereas many felt that working with UNRWA was basically handing the aid over straight to Hamas. Now that situation is obviously screwed.

    Israel also tried to work with some of the powerful clans in Gaza in order to distribute food. That ended quickly when one the clan heads and several of his family members were executed by Hamas for “collaboration”. Hamas wants some degree of starvation, since the pressure on Israel it will produce is their best chance of surviving the war.

    The question is, why hasn’t Israel (until very recently) made transportation to northern Gaza easier by opening the Erez crossing. The Erez crossing was significantly damaged on October 7th and there has been very little political will to repair it, since most Israelis want nothing to do with Gaza anymore. Many of the core leftwing voters who supported the various coexistence programs with Gaza lived in the kibbutzim and towns that were attacked on October 7th. Nobody wanted the Erez crossing repaired, because nobody wants Gazan workers in Israel ever again, after it was learned that Hamas used them to gather intelligence in preparation for the attack.

    Pragmatically though, not opening the Erez crossing was a mistake, because Israel’s freedom to act in Gaza depends to an extent on legitimacy in the eyes the Biden admin, at least until the new arms factories Israel started building in December come online. Netanyahu could have tried to sell the case for opening the Erez crossing along these lines, in the big picture it was in Israel’s interests, but he preferred dragging his feet until he was essentially forced into it. Most likely he didn’t because he feared his far-right allies turning on him, something he fears not just because it could mean the end of his political career, but also his incarceration.
    Last edited by sumskilz; April 09, 2024 at 05:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    @sumskilz

    I can agree with that summary for the most part. Specifically regarding the issue of 'control' though, that is obviously a relative concept in a war like this. I'd say (and I get the sense you do as well) that Israel has enough control to do more than it is currently doing and has the obligation to do so despite the risks involved.

    But I understand it is a difficult and thankless job and I would not want to be in the shoes of anyone tasked to do it. I've been expecting from the start that the moment the Israeli military tries to set up any kind of aid distribution itself, it will become a priority (and soft) target. Hamas won't hesitate for one moment to trigger escalation of violence at the expense of those in need of aid. To them, dead and wounded civilians are privileged to be martyred for the cause. Or to say it like it is: they're expendable pawns.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

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    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    What apologists for Israel's war crimes pretend not to know is that the aim of this war is to eliminate the subhumans of Gaza, and expel those who eventually survive the massacre from their land. It is a brutal war of the colonial power against the colonized people.
    On a side note: no one has ever created real antisemites around the world in such large numbers as this Israeli government. And it does so intentionally- just as Netanyahu played a role in the game of divide and rule in the occupied territories. Good luck with that. Meanwhile in Gaza, mass death is imminent,
    First Thing: Israel still blocking aid to Gaza as top US says famine under way

    Meanwhile, Power, the administrator of USAid, said in a congressional committee session on Wednesday that expert assessments from mid-March of imminent famine in Gaza were “credible”. Power was asked: “So famine is already occurring there?” She replied: “That is – yes.”
    ---
    The white colonial mindset at work. Enjoy- Ursula von der Leyen on Twitter/ X. October 19, 2002.
    Russia’s attacks against civilian infrastructure, especially electricity, are war crimes.
    Cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity and heating with winter coming - are acts of pure terror.
    And we have to call it as such.
    When it comes to Gaza, when is it called a war crime? Never.

    Ursula von der Leyen's complicit silence on the war crimes European Parliament Priority question for written answer

    'Making the desert bloom': Why Europe clings to the colonial mindset.
    Comments by Ursula von der Leyen have yet again exposed Europe's racialized structures of power, which question the very humanity of subjugated peoples.

    (…) “Today, we celebrate 75 years of vibrant democracy in the heart of the Middle East; 75 years of dynamism, ingenuity and ground-breaking innovations. You have literally made the desert bloom.”
    Her statement was awash with Zionist propaganda and falsehoods that have been thoroughly debunked by many renowned historians, including Israeli ones. It is unnecessary to discuss this aspect further here.
    The only accurate point concerns what she called “the greatest tragedy” - the Holocaust - without naming the perpetrators.

    This horrific event took place in the heart of Europe. It was designed and carried out by European actors, fuelled by racial branding that divided humanity into superior and inferior races, inflaming antisemitism across Europe and forcing millions of Jewish citizens to leave or be exterminated.

    Von der Leyen’s statement echoes the typical Euro-colonial discourse. The significance of her words lies not only in their content, but also in the colonial rationality, racism and ideological imagination underlying them.
    (…) In her statement, von der Leyen showed total indifference towards Palestinian suffering and violations of their human rights. This disregard for the Palestinian people is a manifestation of “anti-Palestinian racism”, which Palestinians feel deeply.

    (…) This disregard has a function: it dehumanises people and reduces their suffering and interests to the point of insignificance. Only then does Israel appear as a democracy.
    Ditto.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    The goal is obviously not genocide, it is asinine to claim that it is. Or do you honestly think Israel intends to keep this war going for another 39 years?
    Just today aid trucks have begun to enter northern Gaza directly, and very recently the decision was made to allow aid to enter via the port of Ashdod. If genocide is the goal, why are there hundreds of aid trucks entering Gaza every single day?

    Hamas has time and again refused a temporary ceasefire. Perhaps it is time pressure is applied to them, not to Israel.

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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    I'd say that it doesn't help that Israel is accused for genocide also by other states that are into genocide and denial of it.
    But imo Israel, the state, is guilty of genocide currently.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
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  11. #2251
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    U.S. Scrambles to Contain Fallout from Israel's Strikes on Iranians and Aid Workers| TIME
    Pentagon frustrated by lack of notice from Israel in Syria strike- Washington Post.

    Daily Press Briefing by the Office of the Spokesperson for the for the Secretary-General.

    The Secretary-General condemns the attack on diplomatic premises of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Damascus, as well as the reported casualties.
    --
    --
    Netanyahu is trying to drag US into conflict with Iran. It follows that...Biden should not follow Netanyahu into war with Iran

    (…) Israeli forces have routinely struck Iranian and other targets in Syria for more than a decade, but the attack on the consulate in Damascus was a major escalation both in terms of the location and the rank of the Iranian officers that were killed.The Israeli government appears to want to goad Iran into a military response to divert attention from the slaughter and famine in Gaza and to trap the U.S. into joining the fight.

    The Premises of the Diplomatic Mission Shall Be Inviolable


    From Israel’s bombing of Iran’s embassy in Damascus to Ecuador’s raid on the Mexican embassy in Quito, leaders feel emboldened by the impunity granted by the Global North to disregard diplomatic norms and respect.
    (…) There is Gaza, of course…The Israeli government has brutally disregarded the global public opinion mounted against them. Billions of people are outraged by the stark fact of their violence and yet we are unable to force a ceasefire from an army that has decided to raze an entire people.
    Global North governments speak from two sides of their mouths: clichéd phrases of concern to ameliorate their own disheartened populations, and then vetoes at the United Nations and arms transfers to the Israeli army. It is this two-faced behaviour that bolsters the confidence of people like Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and enables their impunity.

    That same impunity allowed Israel to violate the UN Charter (1945) and Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (1961) on 1 April 2024 when it bombed the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Syria, killing sixteen people – including senior Iranian military officers. This impunity is infectious, spreading amongst leaders who feel emboldened by Washington’s arrogance. Among them is Ecuador’s President Daniel Noboa, who sent his paramilitary forces into the Mexican embassy in Quito on 5 April to seize the country’s former Vice President Jorge Glas, who had been granted political asylum by the Mexican authorities. Noboa’s government, like Netanyahu’s, set aside the long history of international respect for diplomatic relations with scant regard for the dangerous implications of this kind of action. There is a feeling amongst leaders such as Netanyahu and Noboa that they can get away with anything because they are protected by the Global North, which anyway gets away with everything.

    Diplomatic customs go back thousands of years and across cultures and continents. Ancient texts written by Zhuang Zhou in China and his contemporary in India, Kautilya, in the fourth century BCE set the terms for honourable relationships between states through their emissaries. These terms appear in almost every region of the world, with evidence of conflicts resulting in agreements that include the exchange of envoys to maintain peace. These ideas from the ancient world, including Roman law, influenced the early European writers of customary international law: Hugo Grotius (1583–1645), Cornelis van Bijnkershoek (1673–1743), and Emer de Vattel (1714–1767). It was this global understanding of the necessity of diplomatic courtesy that formed the idea of diplomatic immunity.

    In 1952, the government of Yugoslavia proposed that the International Law Commission (ILC), set up by the UN, codify diplomatic relations. To assist the ILC, the UN appointed Emil Sandström, a Swedish lawyer who had chaired the UN Special Committee on Palestine (1947), as special rapporteur. The ILC, with Sandström’s assistance, drafted articles on diplomatic relations, which were studied and amended by the 81 member states of the UN. At a month-long meeting in Vienna in 1961, all the member states participated in the Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Amongst the 61 states that became signatories were Ecuador and Israel, as well as the United States. All three countries are, therefore, among the founding states of the 1961 Vienna Convention.

    Article 22.1 of the Vienna Convention says: ‘The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of the head of the mission’.
    At a briefing in the UN Security Council about Israel’s recent strike on the Iranian embassy in Syria, Deputy Ambassador Geng Shuang of China reminded his colleagues that 25 years ago, the US-led NATO bombing of Yugoslavia resulted in an attack on the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

    At the time, US President Bill Clinton apologised for the attack, calling it an ‘isolated, tragic event’. No such apology has come from Israel or Ecuador for their violations of the Iranian and Mexican embassies. Geng Shuang told the chamber, ‘The red line of international law and the basic norms of international relations have been breached time and again. And the moral bottom line of human conscience has also been crushed time and again’.
    ----
    More. The irony is inescapable,

    ...At that briefing, Ecuador’s Ambassador José De la Gasca condemned the attack on the Iranian embassy in Damascus. ‘Nothing justifies these types of attacks’, he said. A few days later, his government violated the 1961 Vienna Convention and the 1954 Organisation of American States’ Convention on Diplomatic Asylum when it arrested Jorge Glas in the Mexican embassy, an act that was swiftly condemned by the UN secretary-general.
    Such violations of embassy protections are not new. There are many examples of radical groups – from the left and the right – attacking embassies to make a political point. This includes the 1979 takeover of the US embassy in Tehran, when students held 53 staff hostage for 444 days. But there are also several examples of governments forcibly entering the premises of foreign embassies, such as in 1985 when the South African apartheid regime sent its forces to the Dutch embassy to arrest a Dutch national who had assisted the African National Congress and in 1989 when the invading US army searched the residence of the Nicaraguan ambassador in Panama City. None of these interventions went by without sanction and a demand for an apology.
    Neither Israel nor Ecuador, however – both signatories of the 1961 Vienna Convention – have made any gesture towards an apology. Neither Iran nor Syria had any diplomatic relations with Israel, and Mexico broke diplomatic ties with Ecuador in the wake of recent events.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #2252

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    The goal is obviously not genocide, it is asinine to claim that it is. Or do you honestly think Israel intends to keep this war going for another 39 years?
    Just today aid trucks have begun to enter northern Gaza directly, and very recently the decision was made to allow aid to enter via the port of Ashdod. If genocide is the goal, why are there hundreds of aid trucks entering Gaza every single day?

    Hamas has time and again refused a temporary ceasefire. Perhaps it is time pressure is applied to them, not to Israel.
    This is what we call intellectually dishonest argumentation. Your mental gymnastics reek of it. The goal may not be a simple case of genocide but Israel does want to get rid of Palestinians. If it knew killing them all in mass would not cause international trouble they'd done so already. The intent to inflict genocide on Palestinians have been publicly evident on all levels of Israeli government and military forces for some time now. The goal is to make Gaza uninhabitable. That's been accomplished with great success and much of it was done unrelated to fighting Hamas. That some hundreds of trucks enter Gaza nowadays is not the norm but the sign of Israel buckling under international pressure to do so. Even there Israel employs deception by counting trucks differently to make it appear as if the amount of aid needed for Gaza is being sent through when at best only half of it makes it. We also know very well how Israel too have been refusing ceasefires time and time again. Heck, you yourself talked about being opposed to Hamas' ceasefire offers. The more your argue in favour of Israel the more despicable it gets.

    --------

    On a side note, German hypocrisy on freedom of speech found a new target: former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis.
    Germany's Interior Ministry has issued a “Betätigungsverbot” against me, a ban on any political activity. Not just a ban on visiting Germany but also from participation via Zoom. Here is the speech whose publication caused this ban. Judge for yourselves!
    The Armenian Issue

  13. #2253
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Members of the same ethnic group also live in Israel, with fully equal rights, which wouldn't be the case if the goal was to genocide said ethnic group.
    I've said many times that I don't know of any genocide comparable to the Holocaust: its purpose was to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth. But what is happening is also a genocide. And I don’t agree with what you said. According to Adalah, (follow the link) there are over 65 laws in place that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel.
    --
    Who are the apologists of the Israeli government trying to deceive, by saying that Netanyahu's extremist government is not to blame for what is happening?
    The Lancet recently published - on April 6 - an article titled "Starvation as a weapon of war must stop." The title is very explicit.

    The Washington Post, in an article published on March 19, titled "Israel’s war on Hamas brings famine to Gaza," writes: “Gaza’s civilian population is starving because of an Israeli siege, not an earthquake, extended drought or other natural disasters that have blighted parts of the world subject to famine.”

    "1.1 million people are currently suffering from "catastrophic hunger" in Gaza, according to the latest IPC report. Antonio Guterres says, “This is the highest number of people facing catastrophic hunger ever recorded by the Integrated Food Security Classification system.”



    And, go figure, the invasion of Rafah hasn't even begun yet.

    On a side note. What I see here looks like a gathering of very passionate Nazis.

    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel



    "Mr President, what's your message to Iran this moment?"
    Biden: "Don't".

    The Simpsons
    Biden is our shield against world war, a shield made out of rotting wood.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Last edited by Ukiah; April 13, 2024 at 09:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Well past time to remove the genocidal Islamic Republic from the equation.
    Eliminate the mad mullahs and the IRGC along with Hamas-Isis, Hezbollah, PIJ etc...

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    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    War is always the solution, it is known. World war, even more of a solution.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  18. #2258
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Well past time to remove the genocidal Islamic Republic from the equation.
    Eliminate the mad mullahs and the IRGC along with Hamas-Isis, Hezbollah, PIJ etc...
    how exactly? Who will be in charge of this new crusade?

    -------------------------

    In the local news right now (rtve), an analyst: "Israel attacking the Iranian embassy to provoke a military response from Iran and be the victims again and make people talk about Iran and not Gaza". I'm not convinced that's true, but it's plausible. Any justification on Israel's part to attack iranian soil and escalate the conflict in that way?
    Last edited by mishkin; April 15, 2024 at 01:40 AM.

  19. #2259
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    That some hundreds of trucks enter Gaza nowadays is not the norm but the sign of Israel buckling under international pressure to do so. Even there Israel employs deception by counting trucks differently to make it appear as if the amount of aid needed for Gaza is being sent through when at best only half of it makes it. We also know very well how Israel too have been refusing ceasefires time and time again. Heck, you yourself talked about being opposed to Hamas' ceasefire offers. The more your argue in favour of Israel the more despicable it gets.
    Israel is not the one refusing temporary ceasefires, Hamas is. Every time. Because Hamas doesn't want a temporary ceasefire.
    I've spoken against a permanent ceasefire, because all that does it result in more death, suffering, and mysery. A temporary ceasefire for a hostage exchange would be good, but to end it now is to kill more people next year. Hamas has sworn to repeat 7/10 if it can, their goal is quite openly to ethnically cleanse the land of Jews. Their goal is to turn all of Gaza into shahids. Their leaders are the kind of people who smile when being told 3 of their sons died, along with some of their grandchildren. The people of Gaza deserve better than these monsters.

    Yes, about 400 aid trucks are now entering every day, and countries also airdrop supplies in, and there's a pier active for supplies to also be brought by sea. Israel wouldn't allow all this to be happening if starvation was the intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I've said many times that I don't know of any genocide comparable to the Holocaust: its purpose was to wipe all Jews off the face of the earth. But what is happening is also a genocide. And I don’t agree with what you said. According to Adalah, (follow the link) there are over 65 laws in place that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel.
    I like that literally the first law on the list is:
    "Law for Revocation of Citizenship or Residency of a Terrorist who Receives Compensation for Carrying out a Terrorist Act"
    Poor terrorists being discriminated against
    Also includes stuff like benefits for discharged soldiers (anyone can join the army, in fact Arabs would get a higher pay if they did. The fact that conscription doesn't apply to them is a privilige.), a law about bringing bread into hospitals on Pessah (applies to everyone, and actually violates a court order), mandatory minimum sentencing for stone throwers (???), a law about funding transperancy for NGO's, etc.
    Who are the apologists of the Israeli government trying to deceive, by saying that Netanyahu's extremist government is not to blame for what is happening?
    The Lancet recently published - on April 6 - an article titled "Starvation as a weapon of war must stop." The title is very explicit.
    It's so amusing that I'm being called an apologist of a government I detest.
    And, go figure, the invasion of Rafah hasn't even begun yet.
    I'm bothered by this too, should have started months ago ideally, but I understand the need to create somewhere for the refugees to go. The withdrawal from Khan Yunis is likely meant to create those conditions. Hopefully Rafah operation will begin soon.
    On a side note. What I see here looks like a gathering of very passionate Nazis.
    Literally some random standup comedian. Who cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    I'm not convinced that's true, but it's plausible. Any justification on Israel's part to attack iranian soil and escalate the conflict in that way?
    Who would Israel kill the general coordinating and ordering attacks on Israel by Hezbollah, PMU, PIJ, etc? I can think of a couple reasons.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; April 15, 2024 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Censor bypassing/libel.

  20. #2260

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Israel is not the one refusing temporary ceasefires, Hamas is. Every time. Because Hamas doesn't want a temporary ceasefire.
    I've spoken against a permanent ceasefire, because all that does it result in more death, suffering, and mysery. A temporary ceasefire for a hostage exchange would be good, but to end it now is to kill more people next year. Hamas has sworn to repeat 7/10 if it can, their goal is quite openly to ethnically cleanse the land of Jews. I know you think Hamas is great and see them as role models, but their goal is to turn all of Gaza into shahids. Their leaders are the kind of people who smile when being told 3 of their sons died, along with some of their grandchildren. The people of Gaza deserve better than these monsters.

    Yes, about 400 aid trucks are now entering every day, and countries also airdrop supplies in, and there's a pier active for supplies to also be brought by sea. Israel wouldn't allow all this to be happening if starvation was the intent.
    February 2024:
    Gaza ceasefire: Israel's PM Benjamin Netanyahu rejects Hamas's proposed terms
    Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rejected Hamas's proposed ceasefire terms - saying "total victory" in Gaza is possible within months.
    November 2023:
    Netanyahu rejected ceasefire-for-hostages deal in Gaza, sources say
    Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of some of the hostages held in the territory early in the war, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.
    Every time? Try to spin it all you want. It's Israel that could end the bloodshed at any moment. It's Israel that have been rejecting calls for a ceasefire. The people of Gaza do not deserve Israeli monsters in exchange of Hamas monsters.

    Far less than what is required to sustain Gaza is being let through even after international pressure on Israel to allow aid in. You can try to present it as if Israel is doing it out of its own mercy. It's not. We've spent weeks, if not months, where little aid was allowed to pass through. The fact that countries had to resort to airdropping supplies is just insane in its own. Israel wants to starve, kill off, get rid of Palestinians in Gaza to the extent that they're allowed within in the international community. If they knew they could get away with it the Israeli administration would have no trouble going full Nazi on the civilian population of Gaza. Countless statements from all levels of the Israeli government and military is a testament to that. The soldiers are not chanting "no uninvolved" for no reason.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; April 15, 2024 at 03:25 AM.
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