Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Lord Thesaurian]

A good interview on this. Why Israel is in deep trouble: John Mearsheimer with Tom Switzer

Thanks. I thought about posting that a few days ago, but I figured no one else would watch/discuss a video that long. If you understand Mearsheimer’s thesis, you understand what I mean when I say Israel is in deep trouble because of fallout of the 10/7 attacks and has no good options to escape it.

The whole premise of you argument is made as if Israel had no choice but to invade Gaza and kill 35,000 people. Which is of course not true. This has been building up from a looong time ago, and Hamas itself is an entity that was funded in the first place by the people that are attacking it now, Netanyahu and his cronies accepting that very fact. They propped up Hamas in order to create division and discord between the Palestinians and in the aim of one day completely taking over all Palestinian lands (which is what they are openly attempting now.)

This is a weird take considering you also posted a presentation on why 10/7 blew apart the widely held belief that the strategy of abandoning Gaza to Hamas and playing Palestinian factions off against each other was not only a sustainable, but strategically shrewd way of preventing war through deterrence. To summarize, Israel is now “stuck” in Gaza and has no feasible way out in the short to medium term, the 10/7 attacks represent an unprecedented strategic disaster for Israel and the US, and a huge success for Iran.

You have very little understanding of the reality of this conflict... and there's no point even to inform you because you are speaking from an ideological mindset, not rooted to the reality of the issue of the ground. In your world, 2+2=5. No need to prove to you that it's 4. You will continue believing in what you believe, just like the other brainless Fox News drones out there, until mankind wipes itself out.

Fact of the matter is that Israel has been hijacked by religious right wing nut jobs that are religiously motivated. They couldn't care less for the future of their own country. If they were interested in Israel's survival, they would not have antagonized the entire world against them. They are more interested in their apocalyptic yearnings of bringing the messiah and making sure their self-fulfilling idiotic prophecy plays out than they are in hoping for a future where Jews and Israelis have a peaceful place they can call home.

It’s ironic to talk about ideological blindness and brainwashing when your argument is a paragraph away from alleging Israel false flagged 10/7 to justify a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Not to mention the premise that this is all supposed to be a function of humanity’s struggle against an Anglo-Jewish conspiracy of world domination that will end the species if they aren’t stopped. If the horseshoe fits…. But I suppose the real purpose of framing the conflict in themes of Christian/Islamic apocalypticism, with Jews paving the way for the arrival of their false god and Armageddon, is to equate Netanyahu’s government with Palestinian militant factions and justify jihad. Neither are good or accurate analysis, and you posted a source that would appear to undermine key tenets of your position.

It ultimately doesn’t matter if Netanyahu and his cronies were voted out of office tomorrow, and replaced by an Israeli government that is 110% committed to a two state solution. The majority of Palestinians reject peace with Israel or a two state solution, except as a temporary strategy to retake everything from the river to the sea. Nearly half believe this outcome is divinely ordained. Israel’s survival depends on convincing people with that mindset they cannot win and should not try. They only convinced the other Arabs after the latter suffered a series of humiliating military defeats trying to destroy Israel. Many Israelis and outside observers thought they might have finally convinced the Palestinians too. 10/7 proved they were very wrong about that. In any case, the necessity of restoring strategic dominance/deterrence will remain a core security interest for the state of Israel, regardless of who is in charge. To quote:

A tragedy is about to unfold in Gaza made worse by the long learning curve it will take for Hamas to grasp the depth of Israeli resolve. It has robbed Israel of any other interest but its destruction. In the Israeli mind, any brutality Hamas can commit it will commit. And so it cannot be allowed to ever commit any act ever again.

There is no realistic scenario in which any democratically elected government would not do the same after October 7th.

^^

[Ludicus]

I’m not interested in the efforts of UN press agents to save face

Those figures only account for 70% of deaths fully identified.I'm not interested in what you believe.
---
Speaking of "saving faces" ( I'm not talking about plastic surgery) how are Netanyahu and Gallant going to be saved?



arrest warrants for Israel

a group of a dozen Republican senators wrote a letter to Khan earlier this month warning his office: "Target Israel and we will target you."

I can’t say I’m surprised. They're Not Joking: House Republicans Actually Compare Themselves to the Mob.

They call themselves the Five Families.

And then there's the ICJ judgement, which we're waiting for, which concerns states and not individuals.I presume that the judges of this court will also be (or are already being) threatened.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Those figures only account for 70% of deaths fully identified.I'm not interested in what you believe.

I don’t care that you believe Hamas is credible. That figure was the press agent’s attempt to deflect a question about what changed. What changed is Hamas was caught counting men as women/children or unidentified to inflate civilian casualties by almost double, as they have done before and will do again, a strategy in which the UN is openly complicit.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you are finding this mystifying, you are not alone. As Adesnik explains, part of the confusion arises from the Ministry of Health’s shifting accounting labels. Its system has evolved, and it now tallies named and identified corpses that have passed through its morgues—as well as, in a separate category, “unidentified” dead, for whom it has neither a body nor a name, just a vaguely-defined “report” from outside the hospital system. If, for example, first responders bring in a body, and they say seven other bodies are probably still under the rubble, the body in the morgue would count as identified and the seven others as unidentified. The additional source of confusion is seriously aberrant numbers from the Government Media Office.

Neither Hamas source, Adesnik writes, has fully explained where it gets its estimate of the number of unaccounted-for dead: more than 10,000 people…. When Hamas alleges that Israeli soldiers are shooting everyone in sight, and murdering families by flattening buildings devoid of military purpose, it can point to the dead children. Israel can deny the charge and hope that the world trusts it over an avowed terrorist group. The world seldom obliges.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-count/678400/

[Infidel144]

Mr. Segev says he had regular contact with Sheikh Yassin, in part to keep an eye on him. He visited his mosque and met the cleric around a dozen times. It was illegal at the time for Israelis to meet anyone from the PLO. Mr. Segev later arranged for the cleric to be taken to Israel for hospital treatment. "We had no problems with him," he says.

3: 28 Let not the believers take the disbelievers as protectors apart from the believers. Whosoever does that has no bond with God, unless you guard against them out of prudence. And God warns you of Himself, and unto God is the journey’s end.

Ibn Kathir comments in his tafsir: "For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, "We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.'' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, "The Tuqyah is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.'"

[AqD]

Reread the beginning of this discussion. We all condemned the terrorist acts of October 7. Do we have to head each post denouncing the current barbarity that is the invasion of Gaza with a condemnation of the murders of civilians on October 7?

Hamas is the natural result of their inability to defend themselves or even create a functional state, and the current invasion (and all future invasions if this one does not finish) is the response of Hamas' unpreventable yet futile attacks.


When two persons hate each other so much, the only way to end this violence is to let one of them die or lose hope completely. We're trying to find a solution that does not exist and never actually worked in our own countries. Ask yourself - what would happen if American Indians still run independent governments and control the countryside? There would be endless fights, and Americans born into warzones would be nothing like what they're today.

[Ludicus]

UN is openly complicit.

The UN is cumplict, the ICC is the legal arm of the Hamas, and we'll soon see the ICJ portrayed as a the legal arm of..what?

From your source, The Atlantic,

On a podcast last week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu estimated that Israel had killed roughly 14,000 combatants and said the country regretted the deaths of another 16,000 Palestinian civilians

Don't make me laugh.

Israel can deny the charge and hope that the world trusts it.

Don't hope too much.

In detail, published today, read it all.Read slowly.
Report of the Panel of Experts in International Law
Statement of ICC Prosecutor Karim A.A. Khan KC

And then, speaking of the occupation that Israel has maintained for almost 57 years, a vehicle for colonizing land, appropriating resources, violently displacing and killing people, daily violations of international humanitarian law, it would be a miracle if oppression didn't generate resistance.

That's why history matters. Let's look to the past. Israel's first president Weizmann described Einstein as "the greatest Jew alive”. The greatest Jew alive visited Palestine for 12 days in 1923 giving lectures at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and never returned to Palestine again. When Weizmann died (1952) Einstein diplomatically declined the offer to become Israel's President: "I lack both the natural aptitude and the experience to deal properly with people".
But what did he write when he wasn't being diplomatic? In the wake of the Deir Yassin Massacre -April 9-1948 , more precisely, on the following day, April 10, in a letter addressed to the Executive Director of American Friends of the Fighters for the Freedom of Israel, based in New York? –he didn’t mince his words and was sincere and direct,



The horrific slaughter took place just a month before Israel declared its independence (May 14, 1948).You know, the nature of the Jewish government in Israel hasn’t changed much from Einstein’s time.

[Siblesz]

Thanks. I thought about posting that a few days ago, but I figured no one else would watch/discuss a video that long. If you understand Mearsheimer’s thesis, you understand what I mean when I say Israel is in deep trouble because of fallout of the 10/7 attacks and has no good options to escape it.

This is a weird take considering you also posted a presentation on why 10/7 blew apart the widely held belief that the strategy of abandoning Gaza to Hamas and playing Palestinian factions off against each other was not only a sustainable, but strategically shrewd way of preventing war through deterrence. To summarize, Israel is now “stuck” in Gaza and has no feasible way out in the short to medium term, the 10/7 attacks represent an unprecedented strategic disaster for Israel and the US, and a huge success for Iran.

It’s ironic to talk about ideological blindness and brainwashing when your argument is a paragraph away from alleging Israel false flagged 10/7 to justify a “final solution” to the Palestinian problem. Not to mention the premise that this is all supposed to be a function of humanity’s struggle against an Anglo-Jewish conspiracy of world domination that will end the species if they aren’t stopped. If the horseshoe fits…. But I suppose the real purpose of framing the conflict in themes of Christian/Islamic apocalypticism, with Jews paving the way for the arrival of their false god and Armageddon, is to equate Netanyahu’s government with Palestinian militant factions and justify jihad. Neither are good or accurate analysis, and you posted a source that would appear to undermine key tenets of your position.

It ultimately doesn’t matter if Netanyahu and his cronies were voted out of office tomorrow, and replaced by an Israeli government that is 110% committed to a two state solution. The majority of Palestinians reject peace with Israel or a two state solution, except as a temporary strategy to retake everything from the river to the sea. Nearly half believe this outcome is divinely ordained. Israel’s survival depends on convincing people with that mindset they cannot win and should not try. They only convinced the other Arabs after the latter suffered a series of humiliating military defeats trying to destroy Israel. Many Israelis and outside observers thought they might have finally convinced the Palestinians too. 10/7 proved they were very wrong about that. In any case, the necessity of restoring strategic dominance/deterrence will remain a core security interest for the state of Israel, regardless of who is in charge. To quote:


^^

Israel is in trouble precisely because they politically opted out of the two state solution after Sharon. Like I said, this has been building up for a long time, so it's not that they were intentionally planning on ethnic cleaning in 2003... but they enacted measures in 2003 that eventually led to the situation of 2024. The situation in Gaza has been unsustainable for a long time... I find it reaaallly hard to believe that the IDF did not know what Hamas were planning. There is also a whole video on this, with very strong evidence suggesting that not only did the IDF know that Hamas was planning an attack, but that they let it happen on purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mxfnya3ZRc&t=10s

I mean, this is the IDF we're talking about. And Mossad. One of the most well-funded, experienced spy agencies in the world. And they were caught by surprise? I doubt it... there was plenty of evidence of Hamas' plans. And there's plenty of evidence in Israel's political scene that shows a 1.) desperate attempt of Netanyahu to hold on to power by forfeiting his centrist policies and catering to the religious extreme right, as well as 2.) a more religious fervor taking over Israel since 2010. Most notable of all is how it is the youth in Israel that is becoming more religious, very contradictory to the general rule in the rest of the world.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/young-...igious-survey/

You put all of these factors together, and you get a very volatile situation that had been building up for years, but that everyone ignored until after October 7th. So was it their original plan to enact ethnic cleansing and to take all the lands away from the Palestinians? No... Is it their plan now? For the right wing people behind Netanyahu, they are not even hiding their intentions anymore...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-israel-hamas/

That any sensible human being can defend a government that is enacting ethnic cleansing and that has been planning what it is doing in secret since at least 2018 is a whole other matter (unless you have a faint memory, that's the year when the Israeli government made their views very clear in their intention to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, and when Trump was all excited about the prospect of fulfilling the Zionist dream of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel).. like I said, it takes extreme naivite, extreme brainwashing, or just an evil heart to be able to justify what they are doing to the Palestinians now. Yes... Hamas is evil. But they have approximately 1% of the power that the state of Israel has in order to enact that evil. And the PLO and Hamas has been played by pawns by Israelis political elite for years in some crazy Game of Thrones game for power and control of greater Israel. So pointing the finger at Hamas or the PLO is a bit like pointing the finger at the people who were rioting in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943 and calling them extremist. And it's not that the Palestinians did not try peaceful protest before. They did so several times over decades. How did Israel respond? By setting up snipers and shooting children.
https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...th-a-massacre/

The Palestinians have been pinned to a corner for over fifty years, and they have been forced to extremism by the failed ability of Israeli politicians to find a solution to this crisis. The way that reality works is that those who wield the maximum amount of power are those who are responsible for the ill effects of that power. The Israelis have been holding the maximum amount of power since at least 1948, and they have wielded supreme political power over Palestine/Greater Israel since 1967. They are the only ones to blame for how they have wielded that power.