Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Kyriakos]

Good to "learn" that it was only against jewish people that nazi-loved communal guilt was used. "Lmao".

[Lord Thesaurian]

Good to "learn" that it was only against jewish people that nazi-loved communal guilt was used. "Lmao".

No idea what this is supposed to imply, other than maybe you didn’t know about Arab and Muslim SS battalions. I mean the idea the Germans are trying to exterminate Arabs is bizarre on its own. References to Nazi Germany are comically absurd.

[Infidel144]

Reuters seems to confirm murdered babies, but denies beheadings:

"JERUSALEM/TEL AVIV/BRUSSELS, Oct 12 (Reuters) - Israel's government showed U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO defence ministers graphic images of dead children and civilians on Thursday, saying they were killed by Palestinian group Hamas as it builds support for its response.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office also released on social media a picture of a dead infant in a pool of blood and the charred body of a child, part of an apparent effort to stoke global anger against the Gaza militants over Saturday's attack.

Blinken, who flew into Tel Aviv earlier on Thursday, told reporters he was shown photographs and videos of a baby riddled with bullets, soldiers beheaded and young people burned alive in their cars or hideaways.


"It's simply depravity in the worst imaginable way," Blinken told a news briefing. "Images are worth a thousand words. These images may be worth a million."
[...]
There were no images to suggest militants had beheaded babies -- a particularly explosive accusation that first emerged in Israel's media and initially confirmed by Israeli officials."
[...]
Netanyahu has not repeated a claim by his office earlier this week that Hamas had indeed cut off the heads of children, nor did Gallant repeat that accusation to NATO ministers.


But medics, international human rights organisations and journalists have documented that militants killed women, children and the elderly as well as young men and soldiers in their rampage."
https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-m...ck-2023-10-12/

[Lord Thesaurian]

Reuters seems to confirm murdered babies, but denies beheadings:

I think when we’ve reached the point where the debate is over whether babies were beheaded vs. shot and burned, whatever nuance the concerned “fact checkers” of the story had to hide behind is gone.

[Infidel144]

I think when we’ve reached the point where the debate is over whether babies were beheaded vs. shot and burned, whatever nuance the concerned “fact checkers” of the story had to hide behind is gone.

No doubt. But the DSA and BLM term can be used in place of those.
It is just 'decolonization'.

[Kyriakos]

Afaik around 2.000 palestinian children have died as "collateral damage" in the last 20 years.
So focusing generally on murdered kids, isn't an angle which helps Israel.

By the way, of those, 450 died in the last few days, as a result of this bombing:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...za-2023-10-12/

[Phier]

This has been fantastic for the West in an unexpected way.

The far lefts celebration of terrorism and the open celebrations of terrorism by Islamic colonizers has woken up some of the less aware people to just how vile these people are and how evil the far left is.

The curtain has been lifted in part to those who don't understand history.

[alhoon]

The fact there’s consistently even less support for a single state with equal rights for all suggests there is indeed inherent and widespread hatred for Israel and Jews among Palestinians.

And vice versa.
These people have been fighting since the bronze age.

the open celebrations of terrorism by Islamic colonizers

Islamic colonizers? A great many Palestinians are descendants of the non-Jewish population of Judaea. Including the Philistines that showed up 3 millenia ago. The Arab colonizers showed up there 1300 years before the hundreds of thousands of Jews returned there during the Mandate of Palestine and later established a Jewish state in the 1940s. If you see there, the Jewish population in Judaea increased 10-fold during the 20s-30s.
Thus, historically, the Palestinians have as much right to be there as the Jews.

I think you are one of those that don't understand history.

[Lord Thesaurian]

This has been fantastic for the West in an unexpected way.

The far lefts celebration of terrorism and the open celebrations of terrorism by Islamic colonizers has woken up some of the less aware people to just how vile these people are and how evil the far left is.

The curtain has been lifted in part to those who don't understand history.

Unfortunately I don’t think it will matter much. Spoiler alert profanity racism etc:

https://twitter.com/canarymission/st...03629150634124

This is an example of the shift in Democrat voter attitudes toward Israel that have deteriorated over the years and are now net negative. Given the US establishment leans hard left I don’t think there will be any far reaching consequences of this stuff domestically. It’s politically approved speech. Dark times ahead for Israel in an environment where US support is more tenuous than ever.



To your point though, it seems to have hit home for some in the elite that they’re not part of the in group like they thought. This is unlike what we saw during the BLM riots when corporate America literally hit their knees in submission to the extremists, who have only doubled down on their support for terrorists.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/11/a-doze...vard-students/

[Roma_Victrix]

This has been fantastic for the West in an unexpected way.

The far lefts celebration of terrorism and the open celebrations of terrorism by Islamic colonizers has woken up some of the less aware people to just how vile these people are and how evil the far left is.

The curtain has been lifted in part to those who don't understand history.

Uh...I mean...it's not just the center left and far left who is becoming divided over this issue. LOL. For completely different reasons (i.e. the left generally wants Palestinian nationhood), it's also the center right and the far right who have now become divided, and unsurprisingly it involves a different kind of antisemitism, the old traditional classic type. Two recent examples come to mind: (1) Jordan Peterson lamenting on Twitter about Instagram posts related to Israel being brigaded by fascist white supremacists who claim the Jews want to erase the white race (reminiscent of all those charming tiki torch folks at Charlottesville's Unite the Right rally chanting "the Jews will not replace us"), and (2) Ben Shapiro and Andrew Tate going at each other's throats online over the invasion of Gaza and whether it should continue, or if the hostages should be retrieved through negotiation instead. Andrew Tate's position is functionally the same as that of AOC and the Squad calling for a ceasefire. Ben Shapiro's position is at the moment not functionally different than that of Joe Biden offering unwavering support for Israel in the form of intelligence, funds, and military hardware.

I'm left of center politically, but I've become more cynical on the matter lately and don't really see the point in negotiating with Hamas. It would be like negotiating with Al-Qaeda or even ISIS, who have a vested interest in maintaining constant holy war against their religious rivals at all times until they are annihilated. There's no wiggle room for negotiation there, unfortunately, but Israel isn't doing itself any favors by continuously failing to negotiate with the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank about settlement issues. That is a consequence of hardline right wing governments led by those like Netanyahu who are not interested in even bringing up a two-state solution or reviving the work of Prime Minister Rabin and the Oslo Accords.

Afaik around 2.000 palestinian children have died as "collateral damage" in the last 20 years.
So focusing generally on murdered kids, isn't an angle which helps Israel.

By the way, of those, 450 died in the last few days, as a result of this bombing:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...za-2023-10-12/

I don't think a ceasefire is realistic any time soon, especially since Hamas would just gleefully continue firing rockets while holding hostages to poke a stick in Israel's eye (since they are suicidal jihadis who long for martyrdom at the total expense of the general population of Palestinians). However, the demographics of Gaza with half the population being underage is heartbreaking given what is happening there now. That is why I urge caution by the IDF at the very least, but that feels like screaming into the wind given the blood rage they currently have over experiencing their own 9/11 if not worse, since 9/11 didn't include a prolonged hostage crisis and didn't include Al-Qaeda sharing a close territorial border with the United States.

[sumskilz]

The IDF has issued the following statement:

The IDF calls for the evacuation of all civilians of Gaza City from their homes southwards for their own safety and protection and move to the area south of the Wadi Gaza, as shown on the map.

The Hamas terrorist organization waged a war against the State of Israel and Gaza City is an area where military operations take place. This evacuation is for your own safety.

You will be able to return to Gaza City only when another announcement permitting it is made. Do not approach the area of the security fence with the State of Israel.

Hamas terrorists are hiding in Gaza City inside tunnels underneath houses and inside buildings populated with innocent Gazan civilians.

Civilians of Gaza City, evacuate south for your own safety and the safety of your families and distance yourself from Hamas terrorists who are using you as human shields.

In the following days, the IDF will continue to operate significantly in Gaza City and make extensive efforts to avoid harming civilians.

Here is the Arabic version posted on social media and sent vis text message.

Also:

The IDF notified the United Nations at midnight on Friday that the entire Palestinian population north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within 24 hours, a UN spokesperson says.

The message indicates that the IDF could be readying to launch a ground invasion after six days of aerial bombardment in response to the massive Hamas onslaught on Saturday.

Roughly 1.1 million Palestinians live north of Wadi Gaza, the spokesperson says in a statement.

The warning applied to UN staff and those sheltered in UN facilities in those areas.

“The United Nations considers it impossible for such a movement to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences,” the spokesperson adds. “The United Nations strongly appeals for any such order, if confirmed, to be rescinded avoiding what could transform what is already a tragedy into a calamitous situation.”

I think it’s safe to assume that the humanitarian consequences will be much worse if they don’t evacuate. I certainly hope the UN staff are not dragging their feet with the illusion that they can change Israel’s mind.

[PointOfViewGun]

Reuters seems to confirm murdered babies, but denies beheadings:
"JERUSALEM/TEL AVIV/BRUSSELS, Oct 12 (Reuters) - Israel's government showed U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO defence ministers graphic images of dead children and civilians on Thursday, saying they were killed by Palestinian group Hamas as it builds support for its response.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office also released on social media a picture of a dead infant in a pool of blood and the charred body of a child, part of an apparent effort to stoke global anger against the Gaza militants over Saturday's attack.
Blinken, who flew into Tel Aviv earlier on Thursday, told reporters he was shown photographs and videos of a baby riddled with bullets, soldiers beheaded and young people burned alive in their cars or hideaways.
"It's simply depravity in the worst imaginable way," Blinken told a news briefing. "Images are worth a thousand words. These images may be worth a million."
There were no images to suggest militants had beheaded babies -- a particularly explosive accusation that first emerged in Israel's media and initially confirmed by Israeli officials."
Netanyahu has not repeated a claim by his office earlier this week that Hamas had indeed cut off the heads of children, nor did Gallant repeat that accusation to NATO ministers.
But medics, international human rights organisations and journalists have documented that militants killed women, children and the elderly as well as young men and soldiers in their rampage."
https://www.reuters.com/world/nato-m...ck-2023-10-12/

I think when we’ve reached the point where the debate is over whether babies were beheaded vs. shot and burned, whatever nuance the concerned “fact checkers” of the story had to hide behind is gone.

Yes, we can finally confirm that the story was a lie (that babies were beheaded en mass) and was propagated by a number of Israeli officials and journalists. Clearly, death of a number of babies in various different circumstances was not enough for the Netanyahu administration. He needed something much more evil to fall back to in defending his own atrocities. After all, not long ago he was proudly sharing video footage of a large apartment with no indication of being a military target being bombed to kingdom come.

Israel releases images of slain children to rally support after Hamas attack

There were no images to suggest militants had beheaded babies -- a particularly explosive accusation that first emerged in Israel's media and initially confirmed by Israeli officials.
U.S. President Joseph Biden had suggested on Wednesday that he had seen images of children beheaded by militants. The White House later clarified that U.S. officials had not seen any evidence of this.

The IDF has issued the following statement:
Here is the Arabic version posted on social media and sent vis text message.
Also:
I think it’s safe to assume that the humanitarian consequences will be much worse if they don’t evacuate. I certainly hope the UN staff are not dragging their feet with the illusion that they can change Israel’s mind.

What can make it much worse is Israeli actions themselves. The likely intent is to empty out the Northern section completely and Gaza Strip gets shrunk indefinitely. If the conflict continues we'll see new towns popping up in its place for Israeli settlers and Palestinians' suffering in the rest of Gaza is amplified with no space to move.

[mishkin]

I think when we’ve reached the point where the debate is over whether babies were beheaded vs. shot and burned, whatever nuance the concerned “fact checkers” of the story had to hide behind is gone.

We should ask ourselves who wanted to present the, as you well say, unnecessary image of barbarians cutting off the heads of children with scimitars. Maybe someone wanted to present Hamas (and as has been seen in this same discussion, the Palestinian or the whole muslim population by association,) as the most absolute barbarians deserving of absolutely any retaliation.

[Ludicus]

It is completely impossible to evacuate the population of Gaza in 24 hours, and they have nowhere else to go.

UN says over 400000 people displaced in Gaza, appeals

Mass displacement continues. In the Gaza Strip, the cumulative number of internally displaced persons (IDPs) increased by 25% over the past 24 hours, now exceeding 423,000, of whom over two thirds are taking shelter in UNRWA schools,” OCHA said, referring to the U.N. Palestinian refugee agency. It said 23 aid workers had so far been killed since the weekend, including 11 health workers and 12 UNRWA employees.

Scottish first minister Humza Yousaf tells of war's impact on in-laws in Gaza.

Humza Yousaf, Scotland’s first minister, has described in brutal detail the impact on trapped family members of Israel’s bombardment of Gaza in response to the shock attacks by Hamas at the weekend.
He said: “The world can’t sit back and witness the obliteration of 2.2 million people. We are all going to have a stain on our conscience if we allow that to happen.”

A “stain in our conscience”... Yousaf is wrong.
The annihilation of the Palestinians is already underway, with the blessing of the American and British navies and the leaders of the EU, who have traveled to Israel to give their full support to the coming massacre. What happens next will open the gates of hell, and last night's protest in Paris is a pale preview of what will happen in Europe. What will happen in the Middle East, nobody knows.

[sumskilz]

It is completely impossible to evacuate the population of Gaza in 24 hours, and they have nowhere else to go.

The evacuation call is for Gazans north of the Wadi Gaza to move south of the Wadi Gaza. There is no call to leave Gaza. The absolute maximum distance anyone will have to travel in that 24 hours is about 16 kilometers. From the center of Gaza City, which is roughly the midpoint of the most density populated area, it is about 6 kilometers. That’s a relatively short distance, even to walk, although surely there will be congestion, and some people will need help.

The 24 hour warning also allows Hamas that much time to prepare and to relocate assets among the civilian population. The warning gives the people enough time to pack a few suitcases and save their lives.

[VINC.XXIII]

And vice versa.
Islamic colonizers? [...]
I think you are one of those that don't understand history.

I perfectly understand what he means, Chances for Europe celebrating in the streets and on social medias, the absolute obvious refusal to sympathize from both sides in the first days at first. I was totally expecting that though, I know well both side since my country was blessed with huge amounts of both communities.

Far left is clearly self-destroying in France, they tried to walk on eggs when it came to qualify Hamas, and they miserably failed. Its probably the same in other european countries.

[Vanoi]

An assault on Gaza City. Urban warfare is a nightmare no matter how prepared you are. If it's anything like Mosul or Raqqa, Gaza City will likely be leveled to the ground.

[mishkin]

I perfectly understand what he means, Chances for Europe celebrating in the streets and on social medias, the absolute obvious refusal to sympathize from both sides in the first days at first. I was totally expecting that though, I know well both side since my country was blessed with huge amounts of both communities.

Far left is clearly self-destroying in France, they tried to walk on eggs when it came to qualify Hamas, and they miserably failed. Its probably the same in other european countries.

I don't know what the extreme left has done in France, the only thing the so-called "extreme left" has done in Spain has been to ask for the same respect for the victims of both sides and not just the Israelis.

Regarding reluctance of left-wing politicians about calling Hamas a terrorist group, there have been punctually; there are people who just sympathize with anyone who fight against a fascist ultraconservative and militaristic state.

[Kyriakos]

Doesn't Hamas primarily prepare and move weapons in underground tunnels? They wouldn't be hit from the air, so is there much of a point in leveling the city other than a sick show of "we had our revenge and many times over!!!!!!!"?

[Lord Thesaurian]

We should ask ourselves who wanted to present the, as you well say, unnecessary image of barbarians cutting off the heads of children with scimitars. Maybe someone wanted to present Hamas (and as has been seen in this same discussion, the Palestinian or the whole muslim population by association,) as the most absolute barbarians deserving of absolutely any retaliation.

Hamas aren’t the most absolute barbarians deserving of absolutely any retaliation?