Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Infidel144]

Afaik around 2.000 palestinian children have died as "collateral damage" in the last 20 years.
So focusing generally on murdered kids, isn't an angle which helps Israel.

By the way, of those, 450 died in the last few days, as a result of this bombing:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...za-2023-10-12/

This bombing being the palestinian bombs launched against Israel...

[mishkin]

Hamas aren’t the most absolute barbarians deserving of absolutely any retaliation?

No. No one deserves "any retaliation." Because that makes you an absolute barbarian. Now I am tempted to know if you would agree with Israeli troops entering Gaza executing (or beheading) civilians. And I would return to the question of who was interested in highlighting the news or the hoax about the decapitated babies.

[Ludicus]

The warning gives the people enough time to pack a few suitcases and save their lives.

...and never come back. No, it doesn't. Will Rabin's dream of Gaza being swallowed by the sea come true? Rabin in 1992: "I wish I could wake up one day and find that Gaza has sunk into the sea"

Edit,


--
It's extremely ironic to see Netanyahu saying,
Hamas Must Be 'Crushed' Like Islamic State Group

... urging the world to treat the Islamist militants the same way as the Islamic State group. "Just as ISIS was crushed, so too will Hamas be crushed. And Hamas should be treated exactly the way ISIS was treated,

I decided to do some research to find out what Israel has done so far to help crush the Islamic State. Nada, zero.
Why is Israel not intervening to counter the Islamic state?

Israel has maintained, since the beginning of the conflict, a consistent non-interventionist policy. According to Daniel Pipes (2015): “Not wanting to bring Israel into the coalition is half of the story; the other half is that the Israelis are reluctant to join it, they prefer to stay out.”

[mishkin]

CNN: The United Nations on Thursday said it was informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that “the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours.”

Israel has admitted that the mass migration order will take time, with IDF spokesman Lt Col Peter Lerner telling CNN Friday that any deadline “may slip.”

The UN has decried such an order, saying it’s impossible for civilians to evacuate “without devastating humanitarian consequences.”

--------------------

devastating humanitarian consequences. That worries us or...

[Lord Thesaurian]

No. No one deserves "any retaliation." Because that makes you an absolute barbarian. Now I am tempted to know if you would agree with Israeli troops entering Gaza executing (or beheading) civilians. And I would return to the question of who was interested in highlighting the news or the hoax about the decapitated babies.

I don’t know and don’t care why you’re defending Hamas, but the latter is deliberately murdering civilians including babies, some of whom may have been beheaded. Why do you think it makes such a huge difference if the babies were beheaded with a knife vs had their head shot off?

[sumskilz]

The UN has decried such an order, saying it’s impossible for civilians to evacuate “without devastating humanitarian consequences.”

As I said before, the humanitarian consequences will certainly be much worse if they don’t evacuate. Although, I don’t actually understand what the UN spokesman is claiming. There will be some people with special needs, but the average person can easily pack a few suitcases and walk that distance (or even much further) in a day.

In any case, there are plenty of reports already of Hamas telling people to stay in their homes and/or preventing people from evacuating. Palestinian authorities should be facilitating civilians getting to safety, but in Gaza, they are all affiliated with Hamas.

[Kyriakos]

Why think it makes a difference if the babies were shot off or died in the israeli bombing, which killed hundreds of children in a couple of days alone?

This ridiculous position of "one side is completely right, the other is a monster" only helps the actual warmongers. Hamas doesn't want peace, indeed, neither does Netanyahou who only cares about not going to jail and thus has filled the government of Israel with fascists to support him.

The only solution is to have an independent state of Palestine, and clearly this can only start with the West Bank - deal with Gaza later.

[Vanoi]

https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli...lization-syria

Hezbollah is mobilizing fighters to Quneitra in the Syria controlled portion of the Golan Heights. It doesn't necessarily mean that Hezbollah is going to attack Israel but it does mean the Israelis are going to be bombing Syria again very soon.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Why think it makes a difference if the babies were shot off or died in the israeli bombing, which killed hundreds of children in a couple of days alone?

I think there is indeed a significant difference between Hamas going door to and shooting men, women and children at point blank range, or paragliding into a concert and gunning down hundreds of people, vs an Israeli airstrike accidentally killing civilian bystanders because Hamas uses human shields. But you’re right, I’m also aware Hamas deliberately seeks to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties in this way, precisely to facilitate uninformed comments like yours.

This ridiculous position of "one side is completely right, the other is a monster" only helps the actual warmongers.

Israel is completely right to retaliate with maximum force against Hamas monsters who are the actual warmongers.

The only solution is to have an independent state of Palestine, and clearly this can only start with the West Bank - deal with Gaza later.

Why would something most Palestinians don’t support be a solution?

[Ludicus]

, I don’t actually understand what the UN spokesman is claiming

...and the UN doesn't understand what you are saying...but I do have a very good understanding of some Israelis are saying. Bennet, for example.

Listen till the end, it is highly instructive. Naftali Bennett exploded on a Sky News anchor quizzing him about civilian casualties.



The network’s Melbourne asked,

“What about those Palestinians in hospital who are on life support and babies in incubators whose life support and incubator will have to be turned off because the Israelis have cut the power to Gaza?”
Bennet,
“Are you seriously keep on asking me about Palestinian civilians? What’s wrong with you? Have you not seen what happened? We’re fighinting nazis!”

Bennett then brought up the UK bombing of Dresden during WW2 II as a precedent for the acceptance of some civilian casualties in war,
"Because I can tell you when the UK was fighting the nazis during the W2, no one asked, “what’s going on Dresden”?

Melbourne countered,
“And in hindsight, many people have readdressed that kind of carpet bombing”

Bennet reacts,
“Oh I see, now you’re Mr. Clean, Shame on you!

Melbourne,
Are you going to let me ask you a question, or are you going to continue shouting at me? We’ve already distinguished between Hamas and the Palestinians. I’m asking you very directly, very directly: What is going to be done to make sure that those innocent people don’t get killed as innocent Jewish people were killed on Saturday?”

[Kyriakos]

I think there is indeed a significant difference between Hamas going door to and shooting men, women and children at point blank range, or paragliding into a concert and gunning down hundreds of people, vs an Israeli airstrike accidentally killing civilian bystanders because Hamas uses human shields. But you’re right, I’m also aware Hamas deliberately seeks to maximize Palestinian civilian casualties in this way, precisely to facilitate uninformed comments like yours.

Israel is completely right to retaliate with maximum force against Hamas monsters who are the actual warmongers.

Why would something most Palestinians don’t support be a solution?

I am sure you speak for what palestinians want, not a referendum.
In fact, I will change how I 'deal' with your posts.

[mishkin]

I don’t know and don’t care why you’re defending Hamas, but the latter is deliberately murdering civilians including babies, some of whom may have been beheaded. Why do you think it makes such a huge difference if the babies were beheaded with a knife vs had their head shot off?

You don't know and you don't care but you insist on talking about it and provoking my response. Your question is crazy, but I'm going to answer it exactly as it deserves; If I had a son, I would rather have him beheaded than starved to death or buried alive under a block of bombed buildings.

As I said before, the humanitarian consequences will certainly be much worse if they don’t evacuate. Although, I don’t actually understand what the UN spokesman is claiming. There will be some people with special needs, but the average person can easily pack a few suitcases and walk that distance (or even much further) in a day.

In any case, there are plenty of reports already of Hamas telling people to stay in their homes and/or preventing people from evacuating. Palestinian authorities should be facilitating civilians getting to safety, but in Gaza, they are all affiliated with Hamas.

Apparently we have reached a point where the only options for the population of Gaza are to be exterminated by Israeli forces (bombings and armed infantry assault) or to abandon their homes en masse (more than a million people) in one day, homes that they will likely find ruined upon their return (if they are allowed to return). And we want to hold only the anti-Zionist fanatics responsible for this. Seriously? Has Israel not been able to do infinitely better during all these years?

[Lord Thesaurian]

You don't know and you don't care but you insist on talking about it and provoking my response. Your question is crazy, but I'm going to answer it exactly as it deserves; If I had a son, I would rather have him beheaded than starved to death or buried alive under a block of bombed buildings.

Yeah, as in, I don’t know and don’t care why fantasizing about killing hypothetical offspring to defend Hamas seemed like a brilliant move, but I’m happy to correct the false equivalence behind it.

[sumskilz]

And we want to hold only the anti-Zionist fanatics responsible for this. Seriously? Has Israel not been able to do infinitely better during all these years?

The military wing of Hamas is estimated to be about 30,000 men. Their allies Palestinian Islamic Jihad have about 8,000 more. Hamas has been fortifying Gaza for over 15 years. Their military infrastructure is under apartment buildings, hospitals, etc. In 2014, Israel fought Hamas for 6 weeks straight, killing about 900 of them. Israel’s goal then was simply to stop the rockets and do enough damage so that Hamas wouldn’t start a fight again any time soon. This time, Israel’s stated goal is to completely destroy Hamas. The only way I can imagine that a major ground incursion could be prevented is if Hamas surrendered unconditionally and returned all the hostages. That won’t happen.

[Hobbes]

The military wing of Hamas is named after Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, who led a group called al-Kaff al-Aswad that went around in the 1930s indiscriminately killing Jews. If Israeli oppression is the root cause of the violence against Jews, I wonder what was bothering them back then.

Extremists on each side can easily escalate the conflict by provoking the other side, but there is no political solution with Hamas, because for them, “ending the occupation” means the complete annihilation of Israel, and they are strongly supported by a significant portion of the Palestinian population. There is a reason that Fatah is afraid to allow elections again – they have seen the polling data:

I find it fairly ridiculous to suggest that we should take seriously the explanation of some Israeli communist for Hamas’s actions over the words and internal documents of Hamas themselves, which stand in direct opposition to said explanation. The current Israeli government is particularly provocative, but Hamas has been planning this operation since before the Kahanists held any power in the Knesset.

As long as any colonizing force keeps doing its colonizing then there will be reactions. Even if Israel managed to kill all Hamas members there will always be someone else to offer Palestinians who lost their homes or loved ones the chance for bloody vengeance. Israel should absolutely try to neutralize the threat that Hamas is posing at the moment, this goes without saying, but it seems they are using the attack as a pretext to get rid of the Gaza problem once and for all, which will lead to a whole new generation of terrorists. Israel is the strong one; it's up to them to end the cycle.

Unfortunately I know how Israel has been conceived and what it claims to represent, and we all know the means it has to enforce this vision. And I know it will. We've seen this play out before.

[Kyriakos]

Banning protests makes you more free and democratic.

[Phier]

Since some people don't understand what I mean by "Islamic colonization" let me explain. Islam is basically designed for this by its nature, but it applies to more than them.

I would think more people here read "The Prince" than the average website, but this idea comes from Machiavelli. Immigration without integration. You create enclaves of your people into enemy territory, that live in said territory but who's loyalty is to the outside state or in this case religion.

This is an example of how this effect is unfolding in the West.

This is the effect of mass immigration. They never give up their culture for the new one, but continue it where they go. This can be understandable for first generation immigrants, but the unwillingness to integrate creates conflict and questions loyalties.

[Phier]

Apparently we have reached a point where the only options for the population of Gaza are to be exterminated by Israeli forces (bombings and armed infantry assault) or to abandon their homes en masse (more than a million people) in one day, homes that they will likely find ruined upon their return (if they are allowed to return). And we want to hold only the anti-Zionist fanatics responsible for this. Seriously? Has Israel not been able to do infinitely better during all these years?

I'm quite curious as to what you think the Israeli response should be? The government of Gaza attacked Israel. They purposefully put their military in civilian buildings. What do you think Israel should do?

[PointOfViewGun]

Since some people don't understand what I mean by "Islamic colonization" let me explain. Islam is basically designed for this by its nature, but it applies to more than them.
I would think more people here read "The Prince" than the average website, but this idea comes from Machiavelli. Immigration without integration. You create enclaves of your people into enemy territory, that live in said territory but who's loyalty is to the outside state or in this case religion.
This is an example of how this effect is unfolding in the West.
This is the effect of mass immigration. They never give up their culture for the new one, but continue it where they go. This can be understandable for first generation immigrants, but the unwillingness to integrate creates conflict and questions loyalties.

As if European Christians are known for adapting to the local cultures of the Americas? This is not immigration without integration. It is ghettoized immigration. It's also not something special to Muslims either.

[Lord Thesaurian]

As long as any colonizing force keeps doing its colonizing then there will be reactions. Israel is the strong one; it's up to them to end the cycle.

Arab invaders colonized indigenous Jewish lands like the Greeks and Romans and Persians before them. That’s why there’s a Jewish diaspora. Israel has been besieged by Arab nationalists from inside and outside its borders for its entire existence. I don’t know how this makes them the stronger party unless I’m placing the onus on them to solve Islamism and Arab nationalism a priori. A bit ridiculous too considering these are phenomena many empires and countries categorically more powerful than Israel at times exploited and other times tried and failed to solve over the centuries, including the most powerful country ever, the USA. Even at a basic level, how is Israel supposed to solve the problem that most Palestinians don’t want Israel to exist, meaning they support none of the solutions proposed by the international community?