What's the deal with all the teal?

[White Dwarf]

I've played and enjoyed this mod for a great many years, basically since it came out. To me, Fall of the Eagles has made Attila an actually playable game, both in terms of historicity and game design. This is especially true for all the improvements in terms of unit design - away with drab colours, away with the usual TW faction monocolours, hello to the world of Late Antiquity, where warriors show their station through colourful shields, cloaks etc. This is all to say that the following is not a criticism of colour in general - I know that Antiquity was far more colourful, sometimes garishly so, than it is often depicted in movies. I think FotE did a fantastic job of depicting that:




Then I took a break for some months and a few updates happened. And now the shields and clothes of the same Frankish warriors look like this:




Frank-ly, I think this looks awful. The mod had excellent unit design, colourful yet never overboard. Now ~60% of shields have these weird combinations of bright Neon colours that hurt the eye and utterly break historical immersion (colours like Teal smack of 60s interior design, not something you could get organically in 400s Europe). The same goes for many of the shirts which suddenly have the same hideous patterns.

One more screenshot which, to me, illustrates the difference between colours/designs that work and those that don't. I'm sure you'll see right away which of these shields look appropriate and which just don't:




So, what's the point of this post? I hope it's clear that I'm not just mindlessly hating on another's work, I wouldn't care about this if I didn't want to keep playing and loving this mod, and I don't believe my criticism is unfair. My goal is three-fold:

1. To ask whoever is in charge right now (I believe the team basically handed the mod over to Cgma to do as he pleases) to reconsider these design choices and, if possible, revert to the old colours.

2. To point out a very common thing with long-running mods, where at some point the creators just cannot leave well enough alone and constantly have to change things for the sake of change, almost always to the detriment of the final product. Sometimes it's good to ask yourself: "Does this actually need to be changed?". This includes the new unit cards, which to me do not at all improve on the old ones, many factions now have very little variation between different units, making it unnecessarily hard to distinguish them at a glance, a problem the old ones didn't have.

3. In case nobody agrees with me and I'm the only one who dislikes the new designs, to kindly ask if there is a way to revert these changes myself, maybe by copy-pasting textures from an older version or something like that?

If you've made it to here, thanks for reading, and all the best to everyone who takes the time to improve games through modding. Again, I wouldn't have taken the time to write all this if I wasn't so deeply invested in the only mod that does Late Antiquity justice!

[Cgma]

Actually most patterns and shield shapes are HISTORICALLY acurate. Pls, look at the sources. If you need a tip, type to google "saxon shield patterns" or whatever "late antiquity". There are many sources that show patterns were even more specific, especially if you look in to carolingian codexes, Notitia Dignitatum or archeological finds which prove you are absolutely wrong about colors. What i can see controversial are nordics, which use a bit later patterns while i keep toleration that +- 100 years is acceptable. That is a mod, not academical work.

I am aware old FotE team didn't focus to shield patterns at all using material that is more applicable to any BC times not IV/V AD and giving/mixing Franks (for example) shields that mostly were used by Visigoths or celts in I BC, while i made a year long studies and remade source material not my imagined vision (not only to shields but most gear). If you look with more care you will notice that shields start to be more diversed (and sometimes excentric) the higher unit tier is.

Anyway i might need to rework some patterns less color-intensive.

[White Dwarf]

Happy New Year!

Anyway i might need to rework some patterns less color-intensive.

Yes, I think that may be a good idea. I've tried to make it clear that I don't mind patterns and I don't mind colours, by all means let the warriors have awesome shield designs! And I know you're a history enthusiast working from actual sources, but the final result is still very much a mixed bag, visually. Shield patterns becoming more intricate with higher ranked units is a nice touch, I did notice that, it just doesn't have anything to do with the points I was making.

If you find the time, I'd love if you could share some of the sources you worked with; I've recognised a lot of your Roman shields from the Notitia Dignitatum, but as far as Germanic shields are concerned, I only know what can be found on Google Images, so I'm probably missing out on a lot of archeological info. I recognise that shields were colourful, but warriors didn't carry around glowing neon signs, that would've been very bad for everyone's eyes.

Also, what the hell are Faramund and Vitheric wearing on their shoulders/upper arms now? The FotE faction leaders looked great, was there really any need to swap assets around?

https://i.imgur.com/9S4K6je.jpg

[osski]

I've played and enjoyed this mod for a great many years, basically since it came out. To me, Fall of the Eagles has made Attila an actually playable game, both in terms of historicity and game design. This is especially true for all the improvements in terms of unit design - away with drab colours, away with the usual TW faction monocolours, hello to the world of Late Antiquity, where warriors show their station through colourful shields, cloaks etc. This is all to say that the following is not a criticism of colour in general - I know that Antiquity was far more colourful, sometimes garishly so, than it is often depicted in movies. I think FotE did a fantastic job of depicting that:




Then I took a break for some months and a few updates happened. And now the shields and clothes of the same Frankish warriors look like this:

Frank-ly, I think this looks awful. The mod had excellent unit design, colourful yet never overboard. Now ~60% of shields have these weird combinations of bright Neon colours that hurt the eye and utterly break historical immersion (colours like Teal smack of 60s interior design, not something you could get organically in 400s Europe). The same goes for many of the shirts which suddenly have the same hideous patterns. fethiye tours

One more screenshot which, to me, illustrates the difference between colours/designs that work and those that don't. I'm sure you'll see right away which of these shields look appropriate and which just don't:




So, what's the point of this post? I hope it's clear that I'm not just mindlessly hating on another's work, I wouldn't care about this if I didn't want to keep playing and loving this mod, and I don't believe my criticism is unfair. My goal is three-fold:

1. To ask whoever is in charge right now (I believe the team basically handed the mod over to Cgma to do as he pleases) to reconsider these design choices and, if possible, revert to the old colours.

2. To point out a very common thing with long-running mods, where at some point the creators just cannot leave well enough alone and constantly have to change things for the sake of change, almost always to the detriment of the final product. Sometimes it's good to ask yourself: "Does this actually need to be changed?". This includes the new unit cards, which to me do not at all improve on the old ones, many factions now have very little variation between different units, making it unnecessarily hard to distinguish them at a glance, a problem the old ones didn't have.

3. In case nobody agrees with me and I'm the only one who dislikes the new designs, to kindly ask if there is a way to revert these changes myself, maybe by copy-pasting textures from an older version or something like that?

If you've made it to here, thanks for reading, and all the best to everyone who takes the time to improve games through modding. Again, I wouldn't have taken the time to write all this if I wasn't so deeply invested in the only mod that does Late Antiquity justice!

Thanks for information

[Cgma]

If you find the time, I'd love if you could share some of the sources you worked with

If you need identification look for carolingian codexes to see AoC patterns. Nordic are mostly basing on movies, mostly similar to scandinavian commemorative stones and pictures so irish/pictish. Vth century shields patterns besides roman are mostly fictious, there are no sources (besides few monuments from Sassanid area), while some german can be deducted from Notitia basing on tribal names of some palatial auxilia legiones.

I recognise that shields were colourful, but warriors didn't carry around glowing neon signs, that would've been very bad for everyone's eyes.

You are generally misinformed; one of shield's function actually is to distract enemies, glowing/bright or shiny white is part of psychological war and you can see that at Notitia - a lot of shield patterns suit that aspect. Debate if all unit used that patterns or it was only for officers is another thing, but even if units didn't use unified ones it is pretty logical soldiers labelled their shields with invectives or victory/curage signs. There are finds for such ornaments on helmets, weapons and even sling bullets (like the famous lead bullet with monogram "Octavian sucks dick").

The FotE faction leaders looked great, was there really any need to swap assets around?

No,they didn't and they didn't match their soldiers who mostly had better gear they had. Anyway gustibus non sunt in dusputando.