XGM: Diadochi - The Attalids and Achaeans

[RedFox]

Just made a theural research on the whole Aegean and made some pretty astounding discoveries, have to seriously rework the factions and regions of that area. The changes would be following:

Kingdom of Pergamum
- City of Pergamum
Leader: Philetaerus, Heir: his cousin Eumenes I (has a son Attalus).
Starting Denarii: 10000
- a great wealth befell Philetaerus after Lysimachus died, he rebuilt the walls of Pergamum and the city prospered with the income from silver and textile trade. Eumenes I, defeated Antiochus I at the battle of Sardis in 262 BCE and successfully conquered West of Asia minor.

Long campaign: Rebuild Kingdom of Lysimachus
Capture the cities of Sardis, Halicarnassus, Rhodes, Mytilene, Nicomedia, Byzantium, Ancyra, Kydonia

Short campaign: Bring the Kingdom to it's historical power
Capture the cities of Halicarnassus, Sardis, Mytilene, Ancyra. Outlast Seleucids.

Both will be a run against the clock before your coffers run dry and you're out of business.


The Aegean/Island League
- City of Rhodes, Mytilene, Athens, Kydonia
Leader/Heir: Copy paste from old Aetolia
Starting Denarii: 3000
Independent cities struggling for survial in the Aegean...

Long Campaign: Establish a powerful trading League
Capture cities: Corinth, Sicyon, Thermon, Sparta, Chalkis, Pergamum, Philippi, Larissa, Halicarnassus.

Short Campaign: Strengthen the influence of your League
Capture cities: Corinth, Sicyon, Chalkis, Pergamum, Halicarnassus

Relies heavily on Naval units, so it gets a pretty heavy 3 Bireme units at the start of the campaign.


The Achaean League
- City of Sicyon, Thermon
Leader: Aratus of Sicyon, Heir: Diodeas of Sicyon
Starting Denarii: 5000
A new, strong League ready to recapture Greece from the Makedonians, Atticans and most of all the fearsome Lakedaimonians...

Long Campaign: Dominate Hellas
Capture cities: Sparta, Corinth, Athens, Chalkis, Larissa, Kydonia, Mytilene, Rhodes, Philippi, Larissa, Ambracia, Pella

Short Campaign: Establish a powerful greek nation
Capture cities: Sparta, Athens, Chalkis, Corinth, Larissa, Ambracia, Kydonia


The Aetolian League
- City of Thermon, Magnesia, Chalkis - Spawned on event, 220BC
Leader/Heir: Copy paste from current Aetolia
Unplayable - whole faction might be replaced with simple civil_revolt triggers...


Makedonia
- City of Pella, Philippi, Larissa, Magnesia, Corinth, Chalkis
Leader: Demetrius Poliorcetes, Heir: Antigonos Gonatas
Starting Denarii: 7000
A weakened nation, ready to regain it's former glory and once again bring macedonians to the edges of the known world...

Long Campaign: Rebuild the Empire of Alexander the Great

Short Campaign: Recreate a fraction of a once great Empire
Capture settlements: All of Greece and Aegean + Cyrene, Byzantium, Nicomedia, Ancyra, Sardis


Independent Greek Cities
These changes do not influence this faction much, only Kydonia will be removed, which makes the settlement list:
City of Sparta, Halicarnassus, Byzantium, Nicomedia, Syracuse, Croton, 2 Iberian colonies, 2 Bosphoran colonies. Total of 10 Settlements.



Sounds like a lot of work to me, but atleast now it's more or less historical (with minor derivations, to fit everything in the same timescale).
I'll have to remove some regions from Africa and far East, but I doubt anyone will ever miss those as frankly, I've never gone further than Iran.
Replacing them will be:
- Philippi (East of Pella)
- Sicyon (West of Corinth)
- Magnesia ( Larissa moved NorthEast and Magnesia to SouthWest)
+ Some minor border modifications.

I also might replace Halicarnassus with Attalia, though it was founded over a century later. On the other hand Halicarnassus was practically deserted and in ruins by the time the game starts... Have to see how this goes. Maybe start with a low-level Halicarnassus? (few buildings, low pop)
P.S. - Maraxus, thanks for suggesting the remnants of Lysimachus, this made the Aegean a more or less historical battleground...

[Maraxus]

Redfox, are there enough faction slots of Pergs, Aegeans and Achaeans? Is someone gonna get cut?

[felicissimus]

When is this extremely nice mod going to be released ?

[RedFox]

No factions will be cut (except for the roman rebels), the romans_scipii had no real purpose in the whole game, so I figured i'd change it to some kind of a senate.
This didn't work unfortunately, it was too hardcoded. So now it will just be Pergamum.
If I want to add the emerging of Aetolia, then i'd have to cut Baktria, but that's unlikely to happen, unless I cut most of the Far east and reduce it to something more conquerable. I don't really see the fun in conquering the middle of nowhere and creating huge cities there...

It will take some time before I can fully implement the list of features i've made, so it will take quite some time.
I might need someone to do the unit cards for me, would save a lot of time... anyone interested?

[gr33kp1mp777]

exceellent!

[ccllnply]

Could you not cut greek indepent cities out they don't really have a purpose either

[RedFox]

The Independent Greek Cities as a matter of fact now is the old Greek Cities.
I'm working with the possibility of merging the Achaean League and Aegean League together, which should give me 1 unused faction slot.
As the map will be cut from the east, I have no idea what to use it for... maybe a second Slave faction to have the slaves attack eachother?

[felicissimus]

The Independent Greek Cities as a matter of fact now is the old Greek Cities.
I'm working with the possibility of merging the Achaean League and Aegean League together, which should give me 1 unused faction slot.
As the map will be cut from the east, I have no idea what to use it for... maybe a second Slave faction to have the slaves attack eachother?

I have a cool idea .Make a faction Lesbos . Units like `lesbian naked fanatics ` or `lesbian tindanotae` of only women waving their big breasts around would be the top...They can be not only on Lesbos but actually everywhere if the women in a town take the power and decide to join the Lesbian women republic worldwide.And they can have mercenaries of men fighting for them for diversity.Also a cool unit of women can be `lesbian strangle women ` that get behind a soldier and strangle him with a rope or in their breasts even...

[RedFox]

Thanks.. uhm... for such a disturbing idea..

[ccllnply]

"I have a cool idea .Make a faction Lesbos . Units like `lesbian naked fanatics ` or `lesbian tindanotae` of only women waving their big breasts around would be the top...They can be not only on Lesbos but actually everywhere if the women in a town take the power and decide to join the Lesbian women republic worldwide.And they can have mercenaries of men fighting for them for diversity.Also a cool unit of women can be `lesbian strangle women ` that get behind a soldier and strangle him with a rope or in their breasts even..."

Thats just stupid

The Independent Greek Cities as a matter of fact now is the old Greek Cities.
I'm working with the possibility of merging the Achaean League and Aegean League together, which should give me 1 unused faction slot.
As the map will be cut from the east, I have no idea what to use it for... maybe a second Slave faction to have the slaves attack eachother?

What do you mean by the 2 leagues? Is there a new version of XGM I don't have?

[RedFox]

You should've read the thread properly, this is an addon for XGM; - XGM - Diadochi.

It will be released once I complete a big list of changes that i've set for the project, Including a new campaign map.
Greece has been changed into something more historical than what there is at the moment.
After the Kingdom of Lysimachus dissolved, it left a rump state - Pergamum and a vast collection of Leagues and independent cities.

In hellas, the Achaean League, feeling the sudden weakness of the successors, has conquered a vast part of the Achaea - Sycion as the Capital and now controls most of the peninsula, including the Oracle of Delphi and Thermon.

Where as Macedon still controls the stronghold of Corinth at the Isthmus, Thebes has been changed in the similar way into a stronghold.
The cities of Magnesia and Larissa firmly control Thessaly, the northern borders are covered by Pella and Philippi. The island cities of Mytilene and Chalkis are also still in Macedon's grasp.

Kingdom of Epirus to the west controls Tarentum and western Greece, having formed a somewhat steady alliance with Macedon, he can concentrate his forces on the Romans and Carthaginians...

Independent Greek Cities are scattered over all of the Mediterranean, only the few cities around Aegean possess any threat to neighbouring factions, Sparta, having lost some of it's former strength still plays a major role in the affairs surrounding the region, but only has a mere 700 capable "citizens" left, with the reforms of Cleomenes III, this will all change, but nevertheless, Sparta suffers many defeats due to treachery and is captured by Macedonians and later by Romans. The other city states also get conquered by surrounding superpowers, which makes this campaign fun to play - very low funds from the ground up and mediocre infantry compared to what the Diadochi have, short campaign terms are somewhat easy to fulfill, but the long campaign "Master of Mediterranean" is near impossible, unless you conquer cities like Pergamum, which bring in huge deposits of Silver into your treasury...

The Kingdom of Pergamum, after the defeat by Seleucids now controls one, albeit powerful city. After gathering strength it finally defeated the Seleucids in 262 BC at the battle of Sardis and conquered the Western part of Asia minor, although was constantly attacked by Galatians, but whom posed no real threat to them.

The Aegean League consisted of a few cities on the islands of the Aegean, with Rhodes as it's capital, it became a major trading and naval power of the time, after being conquered by the Romans and mostly turned into tourist attractions..


I hope that gave a little bit of insight on the factions, currently i'm working on the unit rosters and balancing.
It will take quite a bit of time to finish all the planned features, so no idea on a release date.

[Darviathar]

Been reading a book called "From Alexander to Actium", covering the Hellensitic period. Was thinking how interesting it would be for RTW to be more Greek-centered, and am delighted to hear about this mod!

I realize you've probably covered it elsewhere, but just now read that you don't plan to remove any factions. Which factions will you feature?

[RedFox]

Compared to Vanilla XGM:

Numidia -> Arverni (Gauls)
Gauls -> Aedui (Gauls)

Egypt (rebels) -> Dacia
Baktria -> Achaean League
Rome (rebels) -> Kingdom of Pergamum
GCS -> Aegean League
GCS (rebels) -> Independent Greek Cities (IGCS)
romans_senate -> Kingdom of Epirus

The purest version of greeks will be the IGCS, other factions like Aegean and Achaean league will feature more modern pike based armies (greco macedon mix)
Macedon and Epirus are nearly identical.
Pergamum has a mix of seleucid and macedon roster.
Dacia is now a more gallic tribe, inhabits Galatia.
Arverni and Aedui have nearly identical rosters (some unit differences)

That should cover most of the Faction changes.

[Balikedes]

RedFox - really looking forward to playing your mod, good luck and I hope your able to get it done!!!

[RedFox]

Not much to do besides further unit balancing and implementing the skins and units for the last two factions in the game.
Then after all the UI cards have been done, it should be somewhat ready for a release (might redo the terrain textures, but the new skies look awesome).

[Da Erobara]

Impressive Hope you'll get it ready soon!

[Darviathar]

How have the Parthians fared during the tests of your mod? One problem I've always had with RTW is that they never EVER seem to last , and are always long-dead by the time my Romans reach the Middle East. Nor are they much of a challenge at all when I play the Seleucids. I force myself to refrain from destroying them, but they rarely seem to take much initative anyway.

[RedFox]

Haven't really noticed yet, but i'm running a long test campaign with the Seleucids, so with luck I should have some feedback on how well they are doing.

[Bootsiuv]

Personally, I think that the IGCS should all be Rebels i.e. not a single faction. That's the whole point of them being independent, no? Right now, they're basically another league, and an ahistorical one at that.

The others would be awesome editions, though, especially the kingdom of Pergamum, which was a regional power for quite some time.

EDIT: After thinking about it, I may understand why they're set up that way. So everyone isn't automatically at war with Sparta, Massillia, etc. from the start, yes? I understand you have to work within the confines of the software, and, with only 20 factions, sacrifices must be made.

I just think that it's a little strange that allying with Sparta automatically allies me with Emporion, Halicarnassus, and ten other city-states around the Mediterranean and Black Seas.

Personally, I'd much rather see the edition of Epirus (I recall someone saying they weren't sure about adding it because there were already so many greek factions, but that was the world at this time, and they seem far too important not to include, especially with the starting date of 280) and have the other independent city states as rebels. Just give them large garrisons, which should stop them from being consumed too quickly by real factions.

[RedFox]

Well, the Independent Greek Cities is just a loose collection of city states, I figured it would be great to add them as a gameplay feature, because trying to survive against all odds, being surrounded everywhere (some cities are in Iberia, some are in Asia Minor, sicily, italy, black sea... everyone hates you too, so you get a bunch of action. really fun.).

Most of these tiny factions, like Epirus (kinda the most powerful, but in a financial crisis) and Achaean League provide a very fun list of short campaigns that are both hard and intrigueing, each have their different goals that are both hard and fun to achieve. The campaigns aren't too long, so maybe that's a minus, but if you'd want a long campaign, you gotta play one of the big guns, like Parthians, Ptolemies, Macedonians or Romans. The rest is just minced meat for them.

If any of them should be removed then it would be the Aegean League, really not a very fun faction, though poses a great threat to Macedon in the beginning. If you start your macedonian campaign, the plot is that the Souther cities have been gaining power and now pose a huge threat to your weakened Kingdom, after the death of Lysimachus, things have been turned upside down and after regaining your old territory, you have to face the rebelling union of Greeks down south, who both seek to recapture corinth and drive you from Hellas once and for all.

Needless to say, if I_LocalFaction Macedon, Athens gets a huge elite stack, same for the Achaeans, they will both break alliance with you and try to conquer the southern part of your kingdom, Magnesia and Corinth should be under siege without delay, so you'll have to keep your northern provinces unguarded. Even more disturbing is when Greeks attack from Byzantium, though luckily Thracians make a fine ally and work as a buffer state between you and the Getai...

So yeah, I'm lovin' it so far, though a lot of bugs have to be cleared and it's still far from a complete product... so much needs to be done.