I hate your mod :P.

[mesor]

On vanilla rome i can stomp any nations with a single stack even on VH/VH without breaking a sweat.

Playing this on M/M it took me 4 attempts to bring hannibal down in the first battle then 15 turns later i had to restart couse the gauls had over run the northern end and greeks and carthage were mullering me in the south.

2nd run is going a little better.

I lost the most northern town after 5 full stacks hit 1 after another but out of 10000 gauls only 700 lived to tell the tale at the cost of 1500 brave hastati's lives.
The next 2 towns down by this stage were both fully stacked with a full infantry legion of 10 hastati 5 latin hastati and 5 velites in each and between them claimed about 45000 gaul lives to date.
In the south i lost my hold on sicily but then i let that go.

I lost the town nexto it but recapped that when i pulled the main legion from gaul and sent it to recapture it timed with my southern legions assault on hannibals remants in italy and took both towns losing close to 2000 men but killing over 8000 in the process.

Since then 1 army was lost when the senate decided to march all the way to capua just to kill my legion ( dirty cheating swine ) but there legion didnt return to enjoy it when my second legion descended on them and crushhed them into dust.

I then sent that remaining legion by ship took pata from the gauls and then routed hordes in 5 turns while i posted a full legion in that town.

Since then i built my newly reinforced 2nd legion back up with triarii , principles , equites and velites and it took the next town to the left while my first legion recaptured the lost town.

All 3 towns are now held by full legions and the previous northern defensie legions were broken up and used to increase defenses in my other towns.

Ive had more defeats in 4 hours on this then 4 years on vanilla so i hate your mod couse its making me look like a nub and for that im going to have to kick its roman hating ass.

Ok rant over .

Great mod .



P.S i have no account on this site currently so im using my friends since he got me to play this and greatly enjoyed watching me flounder like a 5 year old trying to work out why the hell the little warband is not dieing when my principles are hitting it from 2 sides.
Kinda a steep learning curve .

[mesor]

77 views and no response people on this forum need to talk more .

I had a strike of inspiration so when i was trying to sleep so ive advanced a little.

Sicily is in roman hands close to 20000 carthaginians killed in 4 turns all 3 city's taken by 1 of my gaul legions a fresh legion from capua.

Im going to leave a full infantry legion in each city and maintain the 2 legions there aswell for quick strikes into carthage not to take ground just to pick off isolated force's and soak up some of there supplies.

Im moving my first legion out of gaul to my southern border because greek incursions are becoming more frequent most recently 3 stacks landed 2 attempted to take my city but were beaten back at great cost to us both the 3rd made a run for capua but timed it very badly and ran into the legion that since left for sicily and was cut to pieces so badly i almost feel bad for them.

Im going to create 3 new legions in gaul since im making around 10000 profit currently that should be enough to support 1 legion and 2 auxilary legions for the time being then im just going to focus on my economy get my city's all up and running fully increase my defenses in all city's since the enemy is making naval invasions a lot and once all my city's have reached the 6000+ pop limit ill begin to expand again so ive got 2nd tier roman and auxilary units in place to hold this territory and with that done i should have enough income if im planning it right to produe 2 legions and 4 auxilary legions then im going to take the islands just off italy with quick strikes from sicily and im not sure which yet but im going to either take mainland greece or more into iberia but im leaning towards the former because so far greek stacks are far simpler to beat then barbarians ( something seems wrong when chosen swords are harder to kill then spartans ) so ill probly take greece from sparta to athens for the income and to weaken greece a bit leave 2 mobile legions and a 2/3 legion entrenched in each city and then prepare for carthage.

Or thats the plan anyway unless some1 can give me a better idea and explain why its better .

The learning curve is steep but i think im getting the hang of it now on the tactical map side of it unlike rome i cant go rambo with 1 stack and take down an empire but ive got a good thing going using pairs of legion in tandem now and i should be able to adapt it to work in bigger groups and im planning to begin using battle devisions of 1 roman 2 auxilary legions for my offensives and mixed legions on mobile defense and leave a minamum of a 2/3 infantry legion in every city , costly i know but until i get the hang of this properly i want a strong enough force in every city to repel atleast 1 full enemy stack so i have time to move if enemy stacks slip past my outer defenses.

Btw why is it that carthage and greece stacks are so much weaker then barbarian?

I can crush full stacks from them 2 with a 2/3 stack with maybe 40% losses max but the gauls if i have less then a full stack i take enormous casulties even fighting from high ground in shield wall using heavy infantry double line and a velite 3rd line while equites manouver there cavalry away from the main force and then engage it on a hill my cavalry pulling it part way up then turning to change into it.
My infantry lines are taking hurrendous damage against swordsmen let alone fanatics and chosen while against spartans or carthages infantry the losses are far smaller.

I dread to think whats going to happen when i face germans or britains so im avoiding that like the plague until i can concentrate a minamum of 5 devisions on them at once so if skill fails i can bury them under my legions and push through with brute force.

Talk people no point reading the forums if you dont talk aswell.

[GRANTO]

glad your enjoying it , it is a fine mod , try eb alexander and rs2 five good emperors as well and your learning curve will be complete may your stay at twc be a merry one and may yor rtw addiction not cost you to much of your life

[Ejergard]

Hi there, nice post and looks like you're having fun which is great
SPQR is the single reason that I've kept playing this game past 2007 at all...
Nice to see you using the new allied troops, I probably need to find use of them too. What sucks is that most buildings don't give any bonuses to them, so while you can recruit roman troops with +4 experience (which are already better before without xp bonus), the allies will only have +2 exp.
Do let us know how you progress
Here's a few tips, some seem directly related to what I've read from you, others are just general stuff:

1.) Position triarii or other spear troops on your flanks, behind your main battle line, and let the enemy cavalry attack, then kill them with said spear troops combined with continuous charges from your own cavalry, this is much more effective than trying to engage their cavalry with your own alone.

2.) Save one of the three triarii units in the middle, behind your forces. That way when the battle unfolds, you can counter the side that is being approached by the most enemy cavalry.

3.) To bolster my staying power in my main battle line, when fighting barbarians, I use 5 units of hastati, 4 row deep with shieldwall and guardmode on. Then immediatly behind I keep 3 units of velites, stretched out to the same width as the hastati. Skirmish mode off, guard mode on, fire at will on. Then Principe behind those. When the enemy forces clashes with your main force, the hastati line will gradually be pushed back into the velites, and they actually perform quite well in this role, as fodder in the hastati ranks, prolonging the life of your hastati, and diminishing the pushing power of the enemy, letting you use your principes to exploit weaknesses of the enemy formation.
As soon as the velites has spent all their missiles, set guardmode off on them. When you've dealt with any threats on the flanks, and maybe sent some principe or triarii around the enemy flank, set guardmode off in the hastati line and countertattack. The enemy should break soon.

4.) A full fledged legion of 5 hastati, 5 principe, 3 triarii, 3 velites, 1 slinger/archer and 2 equites costs about 5200 dinarii to keep. You might consider recruiting local mercenary cavalry when your economy has been better established, but for every 4 legions you use cheaper equites, you can recruit a 5th full legion for the same cost!

5.) Sometimes it's good to go on the defensive for a bit and develop all the infrastructure of your towns, if you are in a good position to defend. Especially harbors, merchant buildings, roads, schools, and don't forget temples. I used to neglect temples, but they give alot of good ancillaries to your generals/family members occupying said city, resulting in more income, better civil order, etc.

6.) Mind the barbarian bonuses! Fighting a good barbarian general in forested map during winter? Prepare to take heavy casualties! Might be a good idea not to advance deep into areas that get snow in the winter (which are usually forested aswell) up north early in the game.

[Ejergard]

Here's pics of my standard formations vs barbarians.
First image shows my standard deployment against an equal or stronger foe.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The second one shows my offensive formation. Its pretty much the same, but gives better mobility and cohesion with the individual cohorts. In the offensive formation, hastati are not in guardmode either.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[mesor]

Ive redistributed my forces first legion is in the south between the 2 southern city's my 2nd legion has been redeployed to gaul where ive got it paired up with 2 auxilary legions these 2 in forts one left of medi one right of pata to provide an outer defensive line while ive got 2 more auxilary legions in said city's the main legion is down to the left along the coast blocking the main access to the coastal town.

Ive got my 3rd legion playing mobile defense in sicily and an auxilary legion in each of the 3 towns ive captured the 2 islands north of sicily and have an auxilary legion in both with another auxilary on sicily being reinforced for a lighting raid on carthage itself just couse there being cocky trying to raid my borders and its time to teach them to fear my wrath.

Ive got a final auxilary legion in my only real fleet within 1 turns travel range of the 2 northern islands incase they need to be relived.

My economy is currently providing about 9500 profit per turn with all them the main city's in italy have 2/3 roman infantry defense forces half hastati half latin hastati so they can withstand a minamum of 1 stack if an enemy slips past.

Now a quick break down of my legions.

1st legion is 4 velites all 3 bronze chevrons 4 equites all 1 silver chevron 1 general who is legatus of 1st legion 3 gold stars ( hes new after my general died he came out of my equites ) 7 hastati and 4 latin hastati.
This is my original first legion it took down hannibal it took the city in southern italy and all 3 northern city's and has fought off to date 17 full stacks and 20+ smaller forces without ever knowing defeat and is now gaining experience in how to rofl stomp greeks.

2nd and 3rd legions each contain 4 triari 5 principles 4 velites 4 equites 2 italian auxilary and 1 general newly recruited. Both legions are only 1-2 bronze chevrons since there newly formed and have only taken part in my invasion of sicily. Where one remains now and the other is the vanguard in my first battle devision in gaul.

Then theres 4 auxilary devisions each one containing 4 triari 4 equites 4 velites 1 general 2 italian auxilary and 5 latin principles.
1st auxilary legion has 2 bronze chevrons from beating down 4 stacks of carthage to take the 2 islands north of sicily the other 3 havnt faced combat at all to date 2 being with my legion in gaul and 1 on a ship in position to defend those islands or reinforce sicily as required.

My 3 northern towns contain the same force as the auxilary except they have 4 latin hastati insted of equites.
As does the 3 in sicily my 2 southern city's each contain 1 general 4 velites 10 hastati 5 latin hastati.
And the city's between contain 5 hastati 5 latin hastati 4 velites 1 general each.

My economy is in great shape im keeping all towns growing and im currently just retraining my 1st auxilary legion for a lighting raid on carthage and have just begun recruiting for my 2nd combat devision then im going to launch a blitz strike on greece and take everything between sparta and athens ( havnt checked the map to see how many city's it is ) then the 2nd devision will remain there as a mixed mobile defense and raiding force to keep macedon and greece on there toes and out of mainland italy while the 1st will return to gaul for refit before i choose a new target and im building a 3rd devision to remain on defense in gaul durin my invasion of greece.

My basic tactics for barbarians is as follows for main legions.

Triari 2 units center followed by 2 principles left and right then 1 triari on the flanks.
2 italian auxilary and 1 principles in reserve auxilary on flanks principles in the center behind my line of 4 velites ( skirmish off ) which i form up along the back of my main battle line.
General behind the reserve prince 2 equites per flank.
Allow all units fire at will only when the enemy is well inside throwing range so the initial volley hits as hard as possible.
Equites i use as raiders to move along enemy flanks and lure the enemy cavalry out then i run them to a hill move up the hill and then turn on them and charge back down into them to maximize my charge and remove theres.
Principle reserve pushes into center when i order my line to counter charge as they begin there own charge 2 auxilary move onto the flanks and charge the side of the enemy flank units to fold it up and overwhelm it then my formation collapses in with theres each front line flank unit pushing into the flank of the next unit in line as its own enemy's route to fold them up and surround the last 3-4 units which tends to be the heaviest and the general to kill them entirely.

Its a bit ugly for now but thats couse the timing is different and im not used to multi tasking cavalry and infantry frontal and flank engagements at once especially with the 2 fights pretty far apart but im getting there .

Ill be off the defensive and pushing out again in 15 turns.
Time enough to form my devisions and the fleets required march a small reserve force to the coast and spend a bit more on my economy before i move out.
I dont fight field battles in winter at all its an old habit from shogun but it means every 3 turns i take a rest phase to review the previous 3 turns and plan out my next 3.
I like using only units from my towns so im sticking with my equites i use mercs only for rapid advances so i can leave them behind on river crossing and the like as a border guard so i have some warning if enemy slip behind and try to invade my lands.

[mesor]

I ran into a small hitch in the shape of several hundred thousand very unhappy germans storming into northern italy.

Ive pulled all Legions and auxilary legions out of there theatres and built a defensive line across my northern border which is holding so far but im taking currently 6-7 stacks per turn so im having to cycle legions in and out to retrain them and im not gaining any ground im just barely managing to contain there push and ive got gauls trying to push through my left flank contained so far by a battered infantry legion in a town ive got 4 of carthages armies just landed in sicily but i should be able to drive them out with the infantry legions holding the towns 5 greek armies just landed in the south but unless they mass up and hit 1 city at once i think i can drive them out again and ive already sunk there fleets so they have no choice but to fight until i kill them all.

Im working on a fresh devision in capua and 3 fleets to slip the devision into germanys back yard and go on a raiding rampage taking and demolishing city's and moving on.

They either fall back to defend there land or ill burn it to the ground behind them.

In addition im pulling back my defensive line and taking 2 auxilary legions out of the line for a lightning raid on sparta and carthage to see if i cant distract them for a while both legions are on a minamum of 2 silver chevrons after repelling unreal numbers of germans.
They've almost done me a favor my legions are in better fighting order then before if you dont count that there all currently at 2/3 strength or below.

[mesor]

Sparta and Carthage are in ruins my newly created 2nd battle devision is 2 turns from landing in germany and i added an extra pieces and created a 3rd devision which has just taken ireland and im prepping it for britain now since i figured its a handy staging post for raids into the far north and an extra fall back position so im going to base both devisions out of it.

My defensive line is holding firm and taking less damage as my units become stronger my 1st legion has been decimated and pulled out of the line after taking on 3 stacks alone and winning with less then 200 men still standing but no units lost so it can be rebuilt and im going to post it as a reserve since it contains only basic men and my 1st devision and my 1st and 4th auxilary legions are holding firm and the attacks are slowly starting to thin out i think ive finally managed to drain there population down a bit.

Ill launch my raid anyway take out as many germany and gaul towns as possible tear them down then fall back to britain while i get my economy back on track since im making less then 1k per turn because 2 legions and 4 auxilary legions stretched it to breaking point but once britain is secure it should get me going again fairly well plus the money from my sacking will go into economy but ive still gotta replace my southern legion the sicily legion the sicily auxilary and the naval auxilary since i cant risk pulling them out of my northern border incase the attacks pick up again so i think my expansion is gonna have to wait .

Im loving this lol the germans completely blind sided me and came within an inch of over running my northern border it was sheer luck that they hit before i sent the first devision off to its ships so i was able to hold them off long enough to bring in extra forces and establish my defensive line.

Its cost me over 15000 roman lives and some 50000 auxilary to date but my lines holding and the germans r down close to 250000 men ( i kept track and that number is accurate ) i did brake a house rule and auto resolve any battle that was a clear win to me to save time but any battle with 50/50 odds or worse i fought myself.

If i keep getting blind sided by people like this then this is definatly going to be my favorite campaign ever.

All i need now is parthia to invade from the south while germany hits from the north and carthage in sicily and this will become the bloodiest war ive ever fought.

Btw is it just me or are them damned berserkers like mini hulks with battle axes?

Couse the first stack i thought i sent a principle unit to counter a berserker unit flanking me and lost 3/4 of the units even after putting down 1/3 of the berserkers with pila they just hit my line and my men toppled like bowling pins.

But im glag im an infantry man its made spanking them chariots a cake walk i faced 7 units of them in ireland and discovered conclusively that they are worthless when faced with a heavy infantry battle line on a hill .

Also i forgot to mention earlier im playing on H/H starting to wish id gone medium now though lol.

[Ejergard]

It's usually recommended to try to reach the reforms before confronting the germanians, due to their stronger troops compared to gaul, and also to avoid too many fronts at once. But you seem like you can handle it, so good luck

[mesor]

Heh i think im about at my limit if i open any more fronts my economy wont be able to handle it.

Britain gave me a 4th devision which is currently looking for the right spot in carthages territory to begin an invasion and i took a legion 2 auxilary from by defensive line for the 5th division which is staging out of sicily ready to take carthage the moment the 4th lands.
2nd and 3rd are in Britain for a refit before i begin a southward push through gaul to the borders of iberia and the 1st is going to drive along the coast and cut the gauls off in the south then ill fold them up.

Im hoping gaul provides the income for 2 additional divisions couse with such a big border with germany im looking at 3 devisions to hold a new defensive line.
And i want 2 devisions before i hit iberia where im gonna hit both flanks at once roll up the coast cut off there southern border and trap them between my city's then i can just mop them up.

Auxilary legions rock btw there a bit weaker to begin with but there every bit as effective as the romans if you spend an hour or two using them and work out what there best suited to .
Mine are always on flank defense when my legions besieges they patrol the area and make sure nothing can try to break it.

[lt1956]

Your blitzing, its not a good tactic with SPQR mod, later in the game it will be costly.

Also I suggest playing the mod with the Script activated, this will add to the gameplay and give you more turns for the game. Also will prevent Superfactions from happening.

I also suggest playing by house rules as then you will be playing as the mod was meant to be.

Glad you like my mod, just remember SPQR is not about Blitzing its about Skillful tactics and Logistics not exploits in the games engine.

Lt1956

[mesor]

As far as i know ive stuck to the house rules.

Ive got script active i made sure of that .

I didnt really try to blitz i built my border in gaul then relaxed to play it out slowly and the germans came to me.
Under the circumstances i needed to change the situation a bit and i have a strict policy against letting people kill my men without suffering for it.
And sending an assault to the germans head on was suicide and so was a lone raid from behind so i needed a power base and england is small and contained limited defenses and easy to hold so it fits.

Im not assaulting any1 now but the gauls and ive got 4 full devisions now devoted to the invasion 4 legions 8 auxilary legions with 1 devision holding the northern border 1 legion 1 auxilary in sicily 2 auxilary in fleets within striking range of sicily and the 2 islands north of it and my northern border 1 auxilary stationed near capua 1 on my southern border 1 devision defending britain 1 running lightning raids in germany to keep them from assaulting me in force.

Plus the 4 devoted to the invasion and im about 250 moves into the campaign.

Once gauls secure ill rebuild my defensive lines to keep iberia and the germans back while i build more devisions for my iberian campaign.

To me this is turtle speed a blitz for me would of meant id now rule half the world ive got the battle tactics and multi legion manouvers down now so its got pretty easy .

[Ejergard]

Wow you're playing really fast!
I just do a few turns or so every other day, you must've had an SPQR marathon lol.
I'm just about 110 turns or so into my campaign after several weeks still.
But having played different version of SPQR for 5 years now, I got no hurry to "finish".
It's not the goal, but the way there that is fun

[mesor]

Just ended it .

I decided i want a slower run so i have more time to explore so i settled on a hello this is my legion now let me demonstrate how there swords work approach and killed everything in sight.

Gaul was gone in 4 turns ibera fell 17 turns later with the germans going down 5 turns after that.
Carthage was over run and destroyed by 4 devions converging on it 1 west 1 east 2 directly into carthage.
The greeks never knew what hit them and macedon got an up close and personal meeting with my first devisions which by this stage was well into the gold chevrons and riped through there elite pikes like a lightsaber through butter.

Only hard fight was parthia i aint quite got the hang of heavy infantry legions vs cavalry heavy force's but i found my auxillarys were more effective here and with about 50 turns i steadily hurded them until they were gone.

Now onto a slower run where i can relax and trick half the word into killing each other ( any roman commander would set 2 of hes enemies against each other given the chance ) .

[gabyu]

Damn, another deceiving thread title

[mesor]

Ahh but it gets attention .

[jcain]

My god, what year are you in?

[mesor]

On my new play through im currently close to 600 turns in.
Ive destroyed gaul , iberia and carthage and am just building up my towns and getting my first true legion devisions into positions ready to invade greece itself and im disbanding all pre reform legions and garison force's to replace them with legions and auxilary.

Its a huge loss in experience but hey maybe that will give my next victims a fighting chance .

[Menumorut]

I really liked this mod at his time, one thing I do not really thrilled about it, that the other factions do not fight each other. If you use toggle_off you can see hundreds of flags of those factions haunted elsewhere on the map, their sole purpose being only the Romans and this kill part about politics who is already killed in the original game. Yes I know you've explained, you wanted to create something more difficult, but I like modes struggling to introduce something more about the culture of each faction in the game and bring something extra diplomatic.