FYI

[Agent Miles]

Creative writing has two parts that must be done well. Many of you grasp the creative part, where the epiphany of a story that only you can tell forms in your imagination. However, no less important is the absolutely brutal requirement to get the grammar correct. I understand that English is a second language for some of you, but something is not an art if the artist doesn't care about it.

Anyone can bang words together in a rough draft and ask what people think. This is like showing someone an empty canvass and asking them how they like your painting of the Mona Lisa. Do something worthy of comment and then ask for a critique. Let's establish what should not be in a rough draft in this thread.

Most word processor software will catch misspelled words, so typos should not be present. If you haven't proof-read your story/poem, then why should anyone else?

A prize for the longest run-on sentence does not exist. If you have a fifty word sentence, then you may have a bill before Congress, but you do not have an effective part of a story.

Any phrase with "there is", "there was", "there has been" etc., is poorly written. Take these useless words out and make a better sentence that is to the point. "There is truth in what you say" should be replaced with "You speak the truth."

Get the correct word.
Your writing is not the same as you're writing.
He wrecked there car is meaningless,
whereas he wrecked their car is correct.

I've read some very interesting stories here, that quite frankly need serious editing. Creative writing is a true passion of mine that I hope you all aspire to perfect.

P.S. Thanks Ybbon for taking the time to make my writing more effective. See how well that works.

[Audacia]

Without trying to sound like a stuck up English-speaking snob, I really do agree. As I mentioned in the "Who do you vote for" thread, spelling and grammar mistakes really distract from the essence of an otherwise well-written story. Agent Miles hits the major points on the head. I especially like what he mentions about using active verbs. Active verbs, i.e. saying "You speak the truth" as opposed to "There is truth to what you say" really adds flavor to a piece of writing.

While most of us aren't academics or professional writers ourselves, we are publishing work that anyone, anywhere, can read. I understand that the Writers' Study may not be about writing professional material. But, as Agent Miles stated, if an author isn't willing to take the time to proofread, then why should readers take the time to read and comment or critique? Proofreading your own work shows that you care and respect for what you have created.

[Ybbon]

Spelling Epiphany as Epiffany in the very first line is probably not an auspicious start then?

[Robin de Bodemloze]

Spelling Epiphany as Epiffany in the very first line is probably not an auspicious start then?

...along with 3-4 other mistakes.

OP - I essentially agree with your points, but nobody is perfect, and not caring isn't the only reason people sometimes make mistakes. Instead of posting a rant like this why don't you help people point out their mistakes instead? I'm sure your effort would be appreciated.

[Rex Anglorvm]

Like the others have pointed out you do raise some valid points, but speaking for myself I often only have a very short time in which to write, so my own proof reading is sometimes done 'at a pace.' I would always welcome constructive criticism of my work as I'm always seeking to improve.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

I personally love reading through and finding errors, it makes me feel phew the person who wrote this is human...

Spelling mistakes can be a biggie, aye, but I often find if I am really engrossed in the story then they mean little to me. Take for example la coupe's Eastern Jewel in a Western World, one of the best AARs I have ever read yet grammar-wise it isn't perfect by any means however it didn't distract from the story.

However you raise good points, and trying to reduce grammar mistakes is only a good thing... self-editing is a great way to improve upon your writing as well.

[Agent Miles]

I find the same mistakes being made by many of the contributors. I hoped that we could make one thread with all of the common advice and then just link to it for writers. If every writer has a fifty word run on sentence with misspelled words, then we're never going to get past this to a point where we can talk about plot or character development. I belong to a writer's group and we don't sugar coat things. If you just want a slap on the back and a point of rep for a hodge podge of words, fine. However, if someone comes here and really wants to learn how to write creatively, then you are just doing them a disservice.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

And you make good points. I'd hope that if someone asked for a proper critique they'd get one, if someone asked for advice it'd be given gladly etc.

However, personally, I am not confident in my own writing to offer in-depth advice to someone who has posted a story save for pointing out an odd spelling/grammar error however the more people who do the better.

[Heiro de Bodemloze]

I do kind of agree with you and the rest here.

Though I would like to refer to when I first enountered these parts of the forums, about a year ago actually. I entered the tale of the week, and I was a fifteen year old Norwegian, so my spelling was faulty at best. Not to mention the storybuilding. What made me keep going was mainly the huge amount of positive feedback I got from the regulars around here, even though when I look back now I feel ashamed, it is not something I would take the time to read through and correct. So I am very thankful for those who helped me and my poor writing get better (Shanky read through and edited the first seven chapters of my current story! Can't ever thank him enough for that.) and today, one year later, I stand a Citizen.

Those who took the time to read and correct and advise me have inspired me to go on from the poor stuff I did, to something which is getting better. I even want to be a writer. Nothing of that would've been possible if someone had told me it was too poorly written so I had to try again later.

My two cents .

[Agent Miles]

When I was 16, my older cousin came to visit. He told me that he was the chess champion of his town. He even had a picture of himself next to a really large trophy. Then we played chess. I won. You see, I belonged to a chess team where we actually learned to play chess well.

Would you rather be a citizen or learn how to write well?

A few years ago, I was like you. I had written a story and I wanted to be a writer. I went to a group that actually cared about teaching people to be better writers. Last year, a short story I had presented was chosen to be published in a book. I really worked hard to make the story the best I could. A group of actual editors and writers picked it over a piece that a professional writer had submitted.

The reason I can ask my friends for help with my work is that I then work at it. When they edit, they use red ink and I fix it. That way I know what not to do next time. I want all of you to get encouragement, but I want you to get good advice too. I respect the people in my group because they are honest. Their honesty made me a better writer.

[Radboud]

Even though I'm not a writer I do have an opinion about this .

In my opinion twc is a place where everyone gets a chance to learn, learning is mostly done by making mistakes. I feel it is a task of the skilled people to teach the people who don't (seem to) have the skills. twc is as such an open place for everyone, not just for people who can do things at a high level of quality. I've seen a lot of graphic artists without much skill posting in the Graphics workshop and I'm glad they have the guts to do so, some of them develop their skill greatly thanks to the experienced and dedicated artists who help them become better. I for one think people should post and possibly with help from writers like yourself become better writers.

[Heiro de Bodemloze]

You might want to be a little careful with what you're implying here, Miles, intended or not. You make it seem as though you think the current WS is a place we don't care about advancing ourselves or learning how to write better. You are also pretty much saying that I gained my citizenship without grounds and that I haven't learned how to write better :/.

The point I was making about my citizenship is that as a reason of the positive and helpful attitude, I would never have been where I am today. Anyone can rise high with this kind of environment which is what I think is great about this site. When people advance themselves - and if they want to - they can join one of the creative writing forums of which there are lots of (I'm a part of one of them, though sadly not very active).

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but many here are excellent writers - I'll mention Robin, Shankbot, Rex, Radzeer and Boustro (a lot more out there (A LOT) but my point is proven).

Of course we all work to achieve as well as possible. Some start out with less writing skills, like me, others are very good when they arrive. Thing is I don't agree and I don't really like your attitude about making this elite. It's not right for a forum like this, many are good and that's great, but it is those who are not as good who are the foundation of our community.